The Fundamental Model of Reality

[Age]

This one believes, absolutely, that it has 'a mind', and that there are many of these mind things. Which, says it all.

Also, I have never ever even thought that the One Mind was a new idea. And, there is absolutely nothing at all in what I have said here to suggest this at all.

"atla" is living proof how absolutely closed human beings can become once ''a belief' has set into 'one's own psyche'.

So there is only one mind, but many individual psyches?

There are, obviously, many individual human bodies. And, just as obviously all of those different human bodies have many different individual and invisible thoughts, within.

It is the invisible individual 'thoughts', and 'emotions', within human bodies that is what the words 'individual psyche' means and is referring to, exactly?

What makes the 'human psyche" is the individual different thoughts, and emotions, within individual different human bodies.

Obviously, human bodies are just physical things, only. Physical things are not 'psyches', themselves. The words 'human psyche' refers to the invisible individual 'thoughts', and 'thinking', within. After all, this is, literally, where different persons, and different personalities, exist, and dwell.

The different individual personalities, within different individual human bodies, is what the 'different individual psyche' means, refers to, and is, exactly.

Now, for those who want to insist there are many minds, or different 'my minds', then please explain where and what these different minds are, exactly.

For absolutely any one who is interested, every time the word 'mind' is used to refer to some thing about you human beings individually, I can show that what is actually being referred to is the 'thoughts' or 'thinking' within a human body, instead.

The Mind is the thing that allows ALL human beings, equally, to be able to learn, understand, reason, any and every thing, as well as what allows all to do and achieve what 'it' is that is set out to do, and achieve.

[Age]

This one believes, absolutely, that it has 'a mind', and that there are many of these mind things. Which, says it all.

Also, I have never ever even thought that the One Mind was a new idea. And, there is absolutely nothing at all in what I have said here to suggest this at all.

"atla" is living proof how absolutely closed human beings can become once ''a belief' has set into 'one's own psyche'.

So there is only one mind, but many individual psyches?

Yes Age thinks that there are many brains but only one shared mind, or something like that. It's pretty dumb.

The words, 'or something like that', shows and proves just how much effort this one has put into discovering and learning what 'it' is, exactly, that I have actually been talking about, and referring to.

This one has no actual idea at all in regards to what I have to say here, but yet it has already concluded that what I have to say is absolutely False, Wrong, and even 'pretty dumb'.

Thus, what I have been saying and claiming about peoples, in the 'olden days', would not listen to absolutely any thing at all if 'that other thing' did not align with what they were already believing was true.

Also, this one, just like a "christian" believes, absolutely, that God exists, without ever actually questioning and challenging 'this view and belief', that it has been told, by someone else/others, this one believes, absolutely, that 'it' has 'a mind', without ever actually questioning and challenging 'this view and belief', that it has been told, by someone else/others.

[Age]

No, you are not a nondualist, that's the whole point of the discussion. To show that using concepts, concepts pointing to the non-conceptual existence.

Continue if you want to, but I'm in no mood to play mind games with you.

I'm playing mind games? Explain how 'The human mind is a concept known by something else that cannot be negated or experienced to not exist.' isn't an inverted dualism for example.

There is something aware of the mind and it's known concepts. That something is who you are, but you cannot know this something, because you are this something.
To know this something, you would have to split into two, into a knower and known.

No you do not.

What makes you believe such a thing as this?

For obviously, if 'you' are a 'human body', the 'thoughts', within a human body, or a 'tree', you, the human body, the thoughts, or the tree could come-to-know that, actually, 'you' are the human body, the thoughts, or the tree.

Why do you believe that this is an absolute impossibility to happen and occur.

That's not happening, as knowing is inseparable from that which is known, the apparent duality that is the aware knowing of concepts, is actually, not dual, it is an illusory appearance, in what is ultimately nondual existence, appearing as duality.

Here is another prime example of while one believes some thing is true, then they are not open, at all, to any thing contrary. Even though what is contrary could be or is the actual irrefutable Truth of things.

[Atla]

The Mind is the thing that allows ALL human beings, equally, to be able to learn, understand, reason, any and every thing

You sure the Mind didn't leave you out?

[Age]

Could 'you' PLEASE answer the actual question that 'I' posed, and asked 'you' here, instead of some made up by 'you' only question.

Does a new born human baby have 'thought'? Or, within a new born human body is there 'thought'?

This one here cannot answer that for the one there.

Well I wish you were this honest, previously, instead of going off on the tangent you did.

The one there would need to answer it's own question.

This one already has.

you would much prefer that I 'dontasku', right?

That's the only one where ''absolute'' answers are sourced.

But, 'this one' is not 'the One' that you are 'now' talking about and referring to here. Just like 'that one' is not 'the One' neither.

Absolute answers are sourced through the, Truly open, Mind, and through Truly honest human beings, Absolute answers are not sourced 'you ones', alone.

As obviously proved throughout human history.

But if you prefer to look outside of the one you are for answers, then you might want to question where did that one get it's answers from,

Well, and obviously, if the 'other one' is making personal claims, like you have here, then where 'you' get answers from is from your own personal views or beliefs.

As to answers to Truly meaningful or universal questions, is a completely other matter.

and the answer to that question would be from their own self, the one asking the question.

If 'you' are making a personal claim, and I am asking 'you' a question about your own personal claim, then, obviously, the true and right answer would come from 'you', and not from 'me', the one asking 'the question'.

If you continue to seek for answers outside of your one self,

Talk about using maybe the most dualist language there is, 'your own self' and/or 'your one self'

then you will enter the realm of belief, you would either believe or not believe the answers that are coming from outside, external to your own one self innate knowing.

What a Truly False thing to say and claim.

But, you would much prefer that, from your perspective, that you "dontaskme" about 'my claim' here, correct?

[Harbal]

This one believes, absolutely, that it has 'a mind', and that there are many of these mind things. Which, says it all.

Also, I have never ever even thought that the One Mind was a new idea. And, there is absolutely nothing at all in what I have said here to suggest this at all.

"atla" is living proof how absolutely closed human beings can become once ''a belief' has set into 'one's own psyche'.

So there is only one mind, but many individual psyches?

There are, obviously, many individual human bodies. And, just as obviously all of those different human bodies have many different individual and invisible thoughts, within.

It is the invisible individual 'thoughts', and 'emotions', within human bodies that is what the words 'individual psyche' means and is referring to, exactly?

Well I consider the mind to be part of the psyche, which means one mind per psyche, so there are as many minds as psyches, as far as I'm concerned.

What makes the 'human psyche" is the individual different thoughts, and emotions, within individual different human bodies.

Thoughts occur in minds, to my understanding, and individual bodies are associated with individual minds.

Obviously, human bodies are just physical things, only. Physical things are not 'psyches', themselves. The words 'human psyche' refers to the invisible individual 'thoughts', and 'thinking', within. After all, this is, literally, where different persons, and different personalities, exist, and dwell.

I believe it is widely held that the mind is also part of the "within", and I can't see why you assert its absence.
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The different individual personalities, within different individual human bodies, is what the 'different individual psyche' means, refers to, and is, exactly.

I would still say the mind is part of the psyche.

Now, for those who want to insist there are many minds, or different 'my minds', then please explain where and what these different minds are, exactly.

I don't think I can give a satisfactory explanation. Will you explain where the one mind is?

For absolutely any one who is interested, every time the word 'mind' is used to refer to some thing about you human beings individually, I can show that what is actually being referred to is the 'thoughts' or 'thinking' within a human body, instead.

Yes, and those thoughts constitute the mind, or are within the mind, I'm not really sure, but, either way, a mind is involved.

The Mind is the thing that allows ALL human beings, equally, to be able to learn, understand, reason, any and every thing, as well as what allows all to do and achieve what 'it' is that is set out to do, and achieve.

I agree that in order to learn and understand, we need a mind, but the ability of minds varies from individual to individual, and all are not equal.

[Age]

There is no awareness in the separate self,

There is, but it is just in the small 'a' 'awareness' sense. Which is relatively nothing compared to big 'A' 'Awareness', Itself.

This one here does not see it like that.

Okay, and absolutely totally understandable.

This one here, sees the separate self as an illusory appearance within the real self, the pure neutral self.

How is 'this' any different from what I just said and wrote above here?

This real self is aware of the separate self as an illusion only.

Again, how is this any different from what I said and wrote above?

Except, of course, I just use capital letters to make it so much easier and so much simpler to just distinguish between so called 'real self' and so-called 'separate self' straight away.

Relativity does not exist apart from the absolute,

So, 'you', what you call 'separate self' and what I just call 'self', above claimed that 'you' do not 'see' things the same as 'another one', which implies and means that there are things 'relative' to 'you', and 'relative' to 'the other', but then you contradict this, absolutely, by 'now' saying and claiming that 'relativity' does not exist. So, how do 'you', now, explain how and why 'you' see things different from 'others'?

there is only the absolute, and you are that,

'you' do not yet seem to be aware that the 'you' word, literally, means and refers to 'another'. So, how can there be 'different ones' who are, supposedly, the 'only one'?

The word 'you', literally, 'separates'.

Yet, because 'you' have been indoctrinated to use the words 'separate I', and so this is why 'you' 'now' 'see' the word 'I' as 'separated', when all along it is the word 'you', which is what 'separates'.

See, there is, literally, many 'separate you's. And, there is just as many 'separate i's'. But, there is only 'One I'.

And, this 'I' is the One and only True, or Real Self, which 'you', human beings, are trying to work and figure out.

By the way,

Who this 'I' is, is the Mind, Itself.

What this 'I' is, is the Universe, Life, or Existence, Itself.

And, just like 'you', 'personal self', are the invisible 'thoughts' within a visible human body, the Mind is the invisible Thing, all throughout within the visible Universe, Itself.

And, the 'who' word here also refers to the 'invisible', while the 'what' word refers to the 'visible', as well.

there is no relation there, no divide, no separation, only apparently, only as a mentally imaged projection, a mind trick, which is a trickless trick. There is nothing in an image, it is empty to the core, the same way the image of a face in a photograph is empty. And yet this emptiness does appear as if it's full, full of itself, that's the trickless trick the projector projecting a self sustaining feedback loop upon itself.

[Age]

There is something aware of the mind and it's known concepts. That something is who you are, but you cannot know this something, because you are this something.
To know this something, you would have to split into two, into a knower and known. That's not happening, as knowing is inseparable from that which is known, the apparent duality that is the aware knowing of concepts, is actually, not dual, it is an illusory appearance, in what is ultimately nondual existence, appearing as duality.

And I repeat that that's the starter nondualism, with an inverted dualism smuggled back into it. It's like the antechamber to 'real' nondualism. It's nondualism version 0.5. It's like the limbo before the real thing. We found the nondual horse and tried to hop onto its back, but fell off the other side with one leg still in the stirrup.

As far as I can tell every nondualist has to go through this stage but like 80% get stuck here. Because the above is also more or les just a device, used to get people to understand the general view of nondualism, but it's supposed to be taken even less literally than people first think.

So I repeat: eventually the 'something aware of the mind and it's known concepts' device turns out to be an inverted dualism too on a deeper level, and once we collapse this dualism too, is when we arrive at nondualism version 1.0.

To claim you are a nondualist is dualism. It's back to mind game territory. That's not what is being pointed to. What is being pointed to is that which is aware of the mind, not the mind itself.

And, do 'you' 'know' what 'that' is, exactly?

If no, then why not?

Also, do 'you' even 'know' what 'the mind' is, exactly?

What's being pointed to is nondual neutral awareness that does not need the sense of a separate I self to be.

But nothing 'needs' the sense of being a 'separate self' to be.

So, the 'Thing' that 'you' are talking about, referring to, or pointing to is, actually no different than 'you', nor any thing 'else', here.

That being is the natural nondual state of existence, and it's aware of itself, but only as and through concepts known, that in and of themselves have no awareness, because they are simply illusory things within what is not illusory, namely pure awareness/ existence.

[Fairy]

What a Truly False thing to say and claim.

But, you would much prefer that, from your perspective, that you "dontaskme" about 'my claim' here, correct?

But the real open and one true self arises as both the impersonal and the personal. The real one true wide as wide can be open self is beyond the duality of the personal and impersonal duality. The nondual self is aware of both the personal and impersonal self, as being just changing temporal illusory characters within it's own dreaming.
The real self does not need to ask it's own dream characters anything about their personal truth claims, because it is already ominpresent and self-knowing.

The one real self is already as wide open as infinity can stretch, which is boundless and limitless, and knows that any doing and knowing and self-imposed claiming happening, is literally happening all by itself, to itself, and for itself only.

[Age]

You are asking dualistic questions. I'm a nondualist.

you speak in 'dualist' terms. So, asking you 'dualistic' questions sounds very reasonable, to say the least.

It's telling Age that all these years, you could never tell that I'm a nondualist

Again, this one is claiming that the answer to the question, 'Who am 'I'?' is 'nondualist'.

Also, that you could not tell that I already 'knew' that you already classed "your" own 'self' as a "nondualist", for quite some time already, is something quite bizarre, especially considering that 'we' have talking about 'this', previously.

Also, and by the way, just because 'you' call and class "yourself" as some thing, does not necessarily make 'you' 'that thing', at all.

who has merely re-adopted the use of dualistic language to a high degree. And yet you're the one who wants to preach some nondual insights to me.

But, I do not want to preach any thing to you.

I just say and write some things here, which you refuse, absolutely, to even just 'look at', and 'discuss'.

[Age]

you speak in 'dualist' terms. So, asking you 'dualistic' questions sounds very reasonable, to say the least.

It's telling Age that all these years, you could never tell that I'm a nondualist who has merely re-adopted the use of dualistic language to a high degree. And yet you're the one who wants to preach some nondual insights to me.

At some point you struck a nerve or at many points.

Once more, this one assumes some thing, and then believes that its own assumption is true. All along while never realizing that what it is assuming and is believing is true, is actually totally False and Wrong.

[Age]

The Mind is the thing that allows ALL human beings, equally, to be able to learn, understand, reason, any and every thing

You sure the Mind didn't leave you out?

Or, is it "your own mind", which you believe, absolutely, exists, that is leaving me out?

Because, obviously, the Mind, Itself, could never do what you just said and claimed here.

[Fairy]

To claim you are a nondualist is dualism. It's back to mind game territory.

No, it's how I get information across on a philosophy forum.

The information that is appearing and being read on the screen of awareness, is simply that, it's an appearance in the form of information, appearing within awareness itself. You are that, you cannot know that twice, you are already known once, to yourself. When one thing is known, everything is known. Including the appearance of form that shows up to itself as being written ''I am a nondualist''

Form isn't making these formed appearances happen. They are simply appearance of no form Awareness. Which take the shape of form.

And while form appears and disappears, that which apparently takes the shape of form, never experiences it's own appearance or disappearance as a form, or object.

So what is experiencing the experience of these appearances? the answer is you are. You are beyond doubt and error, irrefutable and cannot be negated, this you which is simply everything, cannot experience your own appearance or disappearance because you are unlimited boundless wide open wide awake nondual aliveness in every moment infinitely forever. Here in the timeless now, that never moves. Only the mind moves through time and space, not you.

[Iwannaplato]

Once more, this one assumes some thing, and then believes that its own assumption is true. All along while never realizing that what it is assuming and is believing is true, is actually totally False and Wrong.

You seem to have made an assumption about my post. What do you think I meant and why do you believe it is False and Wrong?

[Age]

So there is only one mind, but many individual psyches?

There are, obviously, many individual human bodies. And, just as obviously all of those different human bodies have many different individual and invisible thoughts, within.

It is the invisible individual 'thoughts', and 'emotions', within human bodies that is what the words 'individual psyche' means and is referring to, exactly?

Well I consider the mind to be part of the psyche,

Fair enough, 'you' are absolutely free to consider absolutely any thing at all.

which means one mind per psyche,

So, to you;

What is the 'mind', exactly, to you?

How many other parts are there to 'the psyche', besides the 'mind part'?

What is the 'psyche', exactly? And,

What is the 'psyche' made up of, exactly?

so there are as many minds as psyches, as far as I'm concerned.

Okay. Do you have any actual proof for this? Or, at least, any evidence, at all?

Or, is this just some thing that you consider to be true, right, accurate, and correct?

What makes the 'human psyche" is the individual different thoughts, and emotions, within individual different human bodies.

Thoughts occur in minds, to my understanding, and individual bodies are associated with individual minds.

So, to you, 'thoughts' occur in 'minds', and 'minds' are 'a part of psyches'.

Also, obviously to you, 'individual minds' are associated with 'individual bodies'.

Obviously, human bodies are just physical things, only. Physical things are not 'psyches', themselves. The words 'human psyche' refers to the invisible individual 'thoughts', and 'thinking', within. After all, this is, literally, where different persons, and different personalities, exist, and dwell.

I believe it is widely held that the mind is also part of the "within", and I can't see why you assert its absence.

In what Universe have I ever asserted that the Mind is absent of 'within human bodies'?

I have continually stated that the Mind is within human bodies.

I am, really, struggling trying to understand 'what words' these people here are seeing under the name and label 'Age' here.

How many times does one have to state that the Mind is within, before others stop believing that I am asserting the that the Mind is not within.
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The different individual personalities, within different individual human bodies, is what the 'different individual psyche' means, refers to, and is, exactly.

I would still say the mind is part of the psyche.

Okay, and again you are absolutely free to say 'this', or say absolutely any thing else, but why would you, still, say that 'the mind' is part of the 'psyche'.

What actual reason is there why you would, still, say this?

Besides, of course, the reason that 'this' is what you have heard and have been told, most of your life.

Now, for those who want to insist there are many minds, or different 'my minds', then please explain where and what these different minds are, exactly.

I don't think I can give a satisfactory explanation. Will you explain where the one mind is?

As I have said previous, but which you have obviously missed.

The invisible Mind is within all things. The Mind is like 'knowing' is within a human body. The Mind exists within all human bodies, and which is the invisible thing that always allows all human beings, individually and collectively to learn, understand, and reason absolutely any thing and every thing. This mind is absolutely everywhere in all things.

For absolutely any one who is interested, every time the word 'mind' is used to refer to some thing about you human beings individually, I can show that what is actually being referred to is the 'thoughts' or 'thinking' within a human body, instead.

Yes, and those thoughts constitute the mind,

To you, 'thoughts' are a part of 'the mind', and 'the mind' is a part of 'the psyche', right?

Also, why did you say and write, 'Yes', here? What I said and wrote is absolutely nothing in line with what you just said and wrote, here.

or are within the mind, I'm not really sure, but, either way, a mind is involved.[/quote]

Do you know what you sound like to me here "harbal"?

If no, then you sound like a "theist" here. you, just like a "theist" will say and claim that a 'mind' exists, but when questioned and challenged over what the 'mind' is, exactly, you, like the "theist" have absolutely no real idea nor clue, at all. Just saying 'it' is a part of some thing, and 'it' has parts itself, is really not saying any thing at all.

What you are doing here is, exactly, what a "theist" does. you have both heard 'things' previously, from others you worship or trust, and then you both just started believing what you have been told is true, and from their 'your beliefs' are stopping and preventing both of you from learning, understanding, and reasoning what the actual Truth is, here.

The Mind is the thing that allows ALL human beings, equally, to be able to learn, understand, reason, any and every thing, as well as what allows all to do and achieve what 'it' is that is set out to do, and achieve.

I agree that in order to learn and understand, we need a mind, but the ability of minds varies from individual to individual, and all are not equal.

I already 'know' what you believe is true. But, that you cannot back up and support your beliefs at all here, is not helping 'me' to want to follow 'you' in your beliefs here.