Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:30 am**

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:59 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am
popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am

My personal experience was having repeated experiences but relatively brief before memory came flooding back to me.
While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am The initial experience is feeling the vitality of life with no burdens of memory to define who or what you are.
Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, Who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am It is briefly having some weight taken off.
But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, thee ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.
popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am Lasting for a longer period no doubt would be alarming, complete disorientation,
But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.
popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am but it would still be an anonymous I that is disoriented and certainly in the long-term unpleasant.
Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was; Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previous, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.
Please tell me how you got that blissful experience, Age. Or was the experience spontaneous?

Although the experience could be considered 'spontaneous' in some sense, as it comes on very quick, and only lasts from between a part of a second to maybe two or three at the most, as I have not mastered the experience any longer yet, the Truly blissful experience comes from just 'NOT thinking'.

Which I later discovered is just the goal of 'mediation' really. That is; being Truly 'thought free', while still being Awake, or Aware.

See, I had come to realize just how much 'thought' (or 'chatter' as some call that 'voice' within) was going on, and 'I' decided to control 'it', instead of the other way around. To do this 'I' would just 'say', 'Stop thinking'. (And this 'one' that spoke or said 'stop thinking' is NOT the 'thoughts', the 'chatter', or sometimes referred to 'the voice' within.

So, when thee 'I' would have control and STOP 'the thinking' going on, then a Truly BLISSFUL experience/sensation would, as some might say, 'come all over me'. This experience was so powerful that actually a smile would come across the face of this body.

Now, AGAIN, this experience has only lasted for a very few seconds, but when it does, it is VERY REWARDING, and actually VERY REENERGIZING as well.

Also, and from what I have learned, 'saying', 'Think of nothing', as it might be said in some meditation class achieves the VERY OPPOSITE.

What I have found is that BEFORE ANY one even starts to consider 'meditation', 'mindfulness', 'stopping the chatter', or any of the other terms and phrases that refer to just 'stopping the thinking' arising, that actually most if not ALL adults are not even aware of just how much thought actually arises within the body or head.

Once one can 'step back' and RECOGNIZE and NOTICE just how much 'thinking' there really is going on, then it is much easier and simpler to 'control' and/or to 'ponder over'.

Now, back to 'meditation class' and when one is interested to do 'meditation', then at first instead of 'stopping the chatter' what actually occurs is when the 'noise' is tried to be stopped, then there 'appears' to be far more than before. Really there is NO more NOR any less 'chatter' going on, it is that the 'chatter' is only NOW being made AWARE OF. Through the 'art', for lack of a better word here now, 'sitting still' 'with one's thoughts', actually makes 'one' NOTICE the 'thoughts' much more. Which is counterproductive because the point of 'meditation' was to 'calm the thoughts'. And, being 'with thoughts' is just sitting there NOTICING or REALIZING 'them', or WATCHING or OBSERVING 'them' coming and going, which is all VERY GOOD for LEARNING and UNDERSTANDING MORE, but it is NOT exactly BLISSFUL by any means. Especially when a LOT of 'thoughts' are associated with 'shame' and what I could have done better, in the past, or associated with 'worry', about what is going to happen in the future, or associated with all of the other so-called 'negative' feelings in Life.

During 'meditation' or 'meditation class', as far as I am aware, I have NEVER done EITHER really, 'students' are told, and even the 'instructor/teacher' "themself" are telling "themselves", to 'think of nothing', which, obviously, just produces MORE 'thinking', which I found is the EXACT OPPOSITE of True 'Mind-full-ness', where thee Truly BLISS-FULL 'experience' comes from.

To just STOP 'thinking' completely and FULLY, while in the AWOKEN state, showed 'me' how there is absolutely NOTHING AT ALL to fear after the body STOPS 'breathing', STOPS 'pumping blood', and STOPS 'thinking'. Although 'the body' will NOT be an AWAKEN state, the Consciousness that is BEHIND 'the thinking', which is ABLE to STOP 'the thinking', is SITTING IN that PURE and Truly BLISSFUL PLACE, ALWAYS. Which, as some might say, is WHERE 'we' ALL 'end up going to', anyway.

Now, WHY is it that 'we', adult human beings are so often 'sad', 'upset', 'worried', 'concerned', 'fearful', 'complaining', et cetera?

It is BECAUSE of the 'thinking', within the head or body.

The EXACT SAME, however, could be said WHY is it that 'we', adult human beings, become 'happy', 'excited', 'pleased', et cetera?

AGAIN, it is BECAUSE of the 'thinking', within the head or body. But, with these so-called and Wrongly called 'good' or 'positive' emotions is that when they come, they usually do not last for that long, and NEVER for 'long enough' and are quickly replaced with the also Wrongly labeled and called 'bad' or 'negative' emotions BECAUSE of, and SOLELY BECAUSE, of the 'thoughts' and 'thinking' going on, within. Which is RARELY, if EVER, REALLY being RECOGNIZED and NOTICED.

Take AWAY ALL 'thoughts' ALTOGETHER, and what is left is a 'feeling' of ABSOLUTE and True 'contentment', which, in itself, is WHERE 'the experience' of BLISSFULNESS arises and comes from, EXACTLY. That is; thee 'I' is 'happy', again for lack of a better word, in the HERE and the NOW, with EXACTLY HOW EVERY thing is EXACTLY HOW IS, the WAY 'It' IS.

A 'long winded' response, but hopefully clarified a bit.

There is FAR MORE to CLARIFY and ELABORATE ON, if wanted.

But, in short, how I got that 'blissfulness experience' is through by just 'STOP thinking', completely. And, by the way, this includes even STOPPING the 'thinking' that controls 'the breathing', which is why I think I can only do or control and STOP 'thinking' for a few seconds at a time at the moment. The 'process/thought' that just NATURALLY controls human bodies, or human life, to just do what 'it' does, NATURALLY, like, breathing, for example, are just SO NATURAL, that they do NOT even get NOTICED.

But there is, OBVIOUSLY, SOME 'thing', which are called 'thoughts' here, which is 'telling' the body' WHEN ''to breathe in', and WHEN 'to breathe out', just like there is some 'thing', another 'thought', which is telling each foot, each time, to move forward, literally, 'one step at a time', every time 'the body' is wanted to 'go', somewhere.

So, to 'say', 'STOP thinking' means to, literally, STOP ALL 'thinking' AND ALL 'thoughts' ALTOGETHER, and NOT just SOME of 'them'.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:50 am**

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:19 am
Age wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:03 am
What is ALSO CLEAR here is that 'you' have CHOSEN a very appropriate username here, so that 'you' feel FREE to express WHATEVER 'you' want, and CLAIM to be true, while also holding some BELIEF that 'you' should NOT be questioned NOR challenged over YOUR CLAIMS.

The life of every human is a continuous movement from conception to death,

When 'you' say, 'human', who and/or what are 'you' referring to, EXACTLY?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:19 am which did not begin even before that and does not end after that.

What 'you' are more or less SAYING here is, the life of every human is a continuous movement from 'that' to 'that', which, ACTUALLY, did NOT begin even before 'that' and does NOT ACTUALLY end after 'that'.

Which, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT make ANY sense AT ALL. BECAUSE it is TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY in and of ITSELF.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:19 am Thoughts overlay the timeless transformational journey of life and create a mysterious illusion of numerous separate events of our earthly existence.

What 'you' are 'trying to' SAY and CONVEY here, like A GREAT DEAL of what 'you' are 'trying to' SAY and CONVEY IS ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True. But, BECAUSE 'you' PUT the Wrong WORDS in 'your' sentences 'you' end up CONTRADICTING "yourself".

It is NOT 'thoughts' that overlay the timeless ....

But there IS ANOTHER 'Thing' that ACTUALLY DOES 'this'.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:19 am Existential questions of all kinds find their spontaneous answer through the eternal irrefutable certainty of the timeless moment.

The ego is merely a claimer and not a doer.

And, the 'ego' are the 'thoughts', which exist WITHIN 'human bodies', ALONE.

'thoughts' have ONLY been around, or exiting for, for as long as human bodies have.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:41 pm**

Age wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:30 am
Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:59 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am

While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.

Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, Who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.

But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, thee ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.

But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.

Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was; Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previous, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.
Please tell me how you got that blissful experience, Age. Or was the experience spontaneous?
Although the experience could be considered 'spontaneous' in some sense, as it comes on very quick, and only lasts from between a part of a second to maybe two or three at the most, as I have not mastered the experience any longer yet, the Truly blissful experience comes from just 'NOT thinking'.

Which I later discovered is just the goal of 'mediation' really. That is; being Truly 'thought free', while still being Awake, or Aware.

See, I had come to realize just how much 'thought' (or 'chatter' as some call that 'voice' within) was going on, and 'I' decided to control 'it', instead of the other way around. To do this 'I' would just 'say', 'Stop thinking'. (And this 'one' that spoke or said 'stop thinking' is NOT the 'thoughts', the 'chatter', or sometimes referred to 'the voice' within.

So, when thee 'I' would have control and STOP 'the thinking' going on, then a Truly BLISSFUL experience/sensation would, as some might say, 'come all over me'. This experience was so powerful that actually a smile would come across the face of this body.

Now, AGAIN, this experience has only lasted for a very few seconds, but when it does, it is VERY REWARDING, and actually VERY REENERGIZING as well.

Also, and from what I have learned, 'saying', 'Think of nothing', as it might be said in some meditation class achieves the VERY OPPOSITE.

What I have found is that BEFORE ANY one even starts to consider 'meditation', 'mindfulness', 'stopping the chatter', or any of the other terms and phrases that refer to just 'stopping the thinking' arising, that actually most if not ALL adults are not even aware of just how much thought actually arises within the body or head.

Once one can 'step back' and RECOGNIZE and NOTICE just how much 'thinking' there really is going on, then it is much easier and simpler to 'control' and/or to 'ponder over'.

Now, back to 'meditation class' and when one is interested to do 'meditation', then at first instead of 'stopping the chatter' what actually occurs is when the 'noise' is tried to be stopped, then there 'appears' to be far more than before. Really there is NO more NOR any less 'chatter' going on, it is that the 'chatter' is only NOW being made AWARE OF. Through the 'art', for lack of a better word here now, 'sitting still' 'with one's thoughts', actually makes 'one' NOTICE the 'thoughts' much more. Which is counterproductive because the point of 'meditation' was to 'calm the thoughts'. And, being 'with thoughts' is just sitting there NOTICING or REALIZING 'them', or WATCHING or OBSERVING 'them' coming and going, which is all VERY GOOD for LEARNING and UNDERSTANDING MORE, but it is NOT exactly BLISSFUL by any means. Especially when a LOT of 'thoughts' are associated with 'shame' and what I could have done better, in the past, or associated with 'worry', about what is going to happen in the future, or associated with all of the other so-called 'negative' feelings in Life.

During 'meditation' or 'meditation class', as far as I am aware, I have NEVER done EITHER really, 'students' are told, and even the 'instructor/teacher' "themself" are telling "themselves", to 'think of nothing', which, obviously, just produces MORE 'thinking', which I found is the EXACT OPPOSITE of True 'Mind-full-ness', where thee Truly BLISS-FULL 'experience' comes from.

To just STOP 'thinking' completely and FULLY, while in the AWOKEN state, showed 'me' how there is absolutely NOTHING AT ALL to fear after the body STOPS 'breathing', STOPS 'pumping blood', and STOPS 'thinking'. Although 'the body' will NOT be an AWAKEN state, the Consciousness that is BEHIND 'the thinking', which is ABLE to STOP 'the thinking', is SITTING IN that PURE and Truly BLISSFUL PLACE, ALWAYS. Which, as some might say, is WHERE 'we' ALL 'end up going to', anyway.

Now, WHY is it that 'we', adult human beings are so often 'sad', 'upset', 'worried', 'concerned', 'fearful', 'complaining', et cetera?

It is BECAUSE of the 'thinking', within the head or body.

The EXACT SAME, however, could be said WHY is it that 'we', adult human beings, become 'happy', 'excited', 'pleased', et cetera?

AGAIN, it is BECAUSE of the 'thinking', within the head or body. But, with these so-called and Wrongly called 'good' or 'positive' emotions is that when they come, they usually do not last for that long, and NEVER for 'long enough' and are quickly replaced with the also Wrongly labeled and called 'bad' or 'negative' emotions BECAUSE of, and SOLELY BECAUSE, of the 'thoughts' and 'thinking' going on, within. Which is RARELY, if EVER, REALLY being RECOGNIZED and NOTICED.

Take AWAY ALL 'thoughts' ALTOGETHER, and what is left is a 'feeling' of ABSOLUTE and True 'contentment', which, in itself, is WHERE 'the experience' of BLISSFULNESS arises and comes from, EXACTLY. That is; thee 'I' is 'happy', again for lack of a better word, in the HERE and the NOW, with EXACTLY HOW EVERY thing is EXACTLY HOW IS, the WAY 'It' IS.

A 'long winded' response, but hopefully clarified a bit.

There is FAR MORE to CLARIFY and ELABORATE ON, if wanted.

But, in short, how I got that 'blissfulness experience' is through by just 'STOP thinking', completely. And, by the way, this includes even STOPPING the 'thinking' that controls 'the breathing', which is why I think I can only do or control and STOP 'thinking' for a few seconds at a time at the moment. The 'process/thought' that just NATURALLY controls human bodies, or human life, to just do what 'it' does, NATURALLY, like, breathing, for example, are just SO NATURAL, that they do NOT even get NOTICED.

But there is, OBVIOUSLY, SOME 'thing', which are called 'thoughts' here, which is 'telling' the body' WHEN ''to breathe in', and WHEN 'to breathe out', just like there is some 'thing', another 'thought', which is telling each foot, each time, to move forward, literally, 'one step at a time', every time 'the body' is wanted to 'go', somewhere.

So, to 'say', 'STOP thinking' means to, literally, STOP ALL 'thinking' AND ALL 'thoughts' ALTOGETHER, and NOT just SOME of 'them'.

Thanks Age, for your kind and thoughtful reply. I understand perhaps because I did transcendental meditation conscientiously as instructed for about eighteen months and I felt I understood the theory as explained by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who said much as you say. I never felt any bliss from it however I hope TM has helped in other ways.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:11 pm**

Can´t believe that anyone want to post anything here with mr OR mrs CAPITAL LETTERS around.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:31 pm**

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:11 pm Can´t believe that anyone want to post anything here with mr OR mrs CAPITAL LETTERS around.

I would ask you WHY you can NOT believe that about ANY human being ever would want to do such a thing, but OBVIOUSLY I would only be wasting my time.

Posted: **Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:45 am**

Age wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:31 pm
Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:11 pm Can´t believe that anyone want to post anything here with mr OR mrs CAPITAL LETTERS around.
I would ask you WHY you can NOT believe that about ANY human being ever would want to do such a thing, but OBVIOUSLY I would only be wasting my time.

Yes you would be wasting your time with any man who is so sensitive to a minor idiosyncracy that he can't get over it.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:37 pm**

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:01 pm I've been thinking about the possibility of reincarnation, and after much deliberation (one minute and twenty three seconds) I have concluded the notion to be utterly bonkers, and that's that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAE8pi8gaOc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NmgM1Vtmcs

Posted: **Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:31 am**

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:48 pm As no one has managed to refute my claim that the idea of reincarnation is bonkers, I am officially declaring my assertion to be irrefutable, and that's that.

I can prove reincarnation exists. (Hold my beer). This is kind of funny though, in a potentially quite tragic and horrifying sort of way.

So, I've never heard of any kind of reincarnation that allows you to take most of your memories into your next life. You're basically a new person, or life form, in your next life.

Now, let's compare that to what would happen if there were no afterlife (hypothetically speaking). If there were no afterlife, there would, similarly, be all sorts of people and animals looking out through their eyes at the world, just like you did when you were alive, who also lack your memories.

Therefore, reincarnation is basically identical to there being no afterlife.

Now, I'd originally stated I'd prove reincarnation exists, which it might sound like I've not done yet because I've not proven there is no afterlife. The way I see it, that doesn't matter though. Even if there is an afterlife, there are still beings being born after you do, who you might as well perceive as some kind of continuation of yourself if you're in the mood to do so. They'd just be a second copy of you. (It makes as much sense as the idea of reincarnation does anyway).

So yeah, reincarnation definitely exists. It's just that, depending on how you look at it the whole concept is completely useless because it's no different from any other fate for us after we die, or it's useful in a kind of comforting "A vague part of me will live on after death" kind of way.

Either way though, the thing to remember is that if you or I have some new life, whether it's an afterlife or reincarnation, if we do not get to carry our memories into that new life, it's pretty much identical to there being no afterlife for us.

Now...with that in mind, I figure there are three kinds of people with views on reincarnation.

Person type A: This person just kind of fantasizes about being reincarnated into a better life in a kind of dreamy sort of way. They perceive it as not really any different than death, but they don't care about that much. They have their own possibly motivational reasons for telling themselves that their reincarnation is relevant. Maybe it's just kind of a dreamy fun thing to do. Maybe they just want some sense of direction. Maybe they have some other motivation for trying to get into a better next life, but regardless of that, they do understand that it's not that different than there being no afterlife. Maybe they wonder if some tiny part of themselves does continue on and that's what they're dreamily focused on.

Person type B: They think the whole concept of reincarnation is bogus because it's a useless concept.

Person type C: I'd rank this group as the most amusing type of person by far. These are the people who have no idea that if you don't get to carry your memories into the next life...that's basically not you anymore. If there were, for example, samurai who committed ritualistic suicide because they believed they would be reincarnated into a better next life, who didn't realize that you're no longer you if you don't get to carry your memories into the next life...I really can't think of a better description for that than such a circumstance being rather hilarious, in an "Oh God! that's one of the most tragic possibilities I can imagine!" sort of way. Therefore, I'm very much hoping the centuries of Hindu caste systems and such were inspired by something more than that misunderstanding or else we're basically talking about many centuries if not thousands of years of entire nations of Darwin-Award winners who had no idea they were gaining absolutely nothing from a lifetime of sacrifice and/or seppuku, or whatever other sacrifices they made to try to gain a better next life.

I figure that sort of thing is one of the best reasons to contemplate philosophy. It might help you realize that when you commit seppuku (a ritualistic, quite painful form of suicide) even if someone comes into the world into a better state than you were as a result of that seppuku, that person will not be you.

Now, when I say all that stuff, I'm not meaning to totally bash the concept of reincarnation. Of those three people types I've mentioned, I'm more of a type A than type B. I prefer to perceive my life as continuing on in other people after I die. I find that quite a comforting way of looking at things too. I have an instinctive fear of death, and that helps quiet it down. I've even described myself as believing in a natural, atheistic afterlife in this way...in the sense that I will live on through other people after I'm gone.

I just also think it might have been more worthwhile for people to think about how much of what we consider "me" is dependent on our memories. I think it's a lot. We've also got our instincts, relationships, body and other factors, but I'm thinking our memories are most of what we are...and if we have a "next life" that not only lacks our memories, but also our appearance, instincts, and relationships...that's no more "me" than any other random person, more or less, I'd argue.

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 1:38 am**

Somewhere in this forum, I proved that the mind is immortal. Like to hear my argument?

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 4:19 am**

Try a combo of metempsychosis and _____ and you'll never think of reincarnation in the same way again.

Here, lemme help you with that. Your options are presidents of the world, past, present, and future.

Wasn't there a thread by a new member that mentioned an idea that jibes with (philosophical) reincarnation, with its attendant confusion.

Somewhere in the Buddhist timeline, the switch flipped ... it was inevitable. The Buddha, did he know?

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 8:39 am**

If reincarnation is actually real and true then every other apparent you is actually you. You are every one.

One is You, and You is One.

And every one is Agent Smith.

The film that is called the Matrix really hit home the Nondual message.

The idea that we both exist and do not exist simultaneously forever is equally terrifying and blissfully beautiful at the same time.

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 8:49 am**

This knowing conscious state of being alive is a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth.

Reincarnation is the dream of rebirth believed to be real, and the dream is all there is, which is nothing at all, thankfully, but at the same time this dream can be a curse, but then no one said this dream would be all about chasing pink balloons, there's always going to be dragons and demons. And you are all of this everything and nothing.

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 11:16 am**

There is no such thing as the self so the self cannot reincarnate.

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 11:35 am**

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 11:16 am There is no such thing as the self so the self cannot reincarnate.

Is that true that there is no such thing as the self regardless of what one thinks of the self as being?

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2023 1:25 pm**

there's three basic options here, with the first being the simplest and most likely, the second being not as simple and likely as the first but more so than the third... which seems very complicated and unlikely.

A) total annihilation at death. outta there. finished. cashed in. nought to be. the physical system shuts down and that epiphenomena we call consciousnesses just goes dim and fades to black. everything becomes kinda like a metallica song.

B) total annihilation at death but with a future reappearance one or more times. the universe is so fuckin big and plentiful with all its energy and atoms and fund a mental particles that some'ers else the same thing that was 'u', the thing that just died, will come into existence again as a result of that particular combination and arrangement of forces that produced the other u (or all the u's). think of the shoe box full of marbles. u shake it enough times and eventually those marbles will be in the same position they once were before (or several times were before). that's what u are. the marbles in the box.

C) immortality. you'd be some kind of cogito that 'left' the dead body when the physical systems shut down. where u are and what you're doing, i have no idea. but u would have to be an awareness of something other than yourself; you'd be experiencing some kind of world, a reality. there would be a sensory nature to this reality even if it wasn't 'material' in the conventional sense of the word. not much more can be said about it and u can't really deduce anything of importance from it, e.g., the 'purpose' of this immortality, what one should do, what is 'right' and 'wrong' if there are such things, etc.

how religions get invented is by people informed of C intuitively anthropomorphizing the universe and the forces in it. becuz we are intelligent and create things, the universe must be intelligent or created by something intelligent. argument from design. those realities we experience after we leave our dead bodies, however, whatever and wherever they are, are teleological results of a purposeful order... whether it be some godless system of karma or the private creation of some unfathomable being(s).

we just consider the strangeness of C and set to trying to understand how it would work and that anthropomorphizing is natural. we can't not anthropomorphize the idea.

sucks that A is the most likely tho and i hate it for everyone.

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