Philosophy Now Forum

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:55 pm And there are no facts re whether you should pay your taxes. It just depends on what you desire.

I don't know about you, but I don't dismiss my desires as non-factual.

Either it is the case that you desire to pay your taxes (given the implications).
Or it is the case that you don't desire to pay your taxes (given the implications).

Which one is the case?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:58 pm I don't know about you, but I don't dismiss my desires as non-factual.

Again, the issue isn't that you desire whatever you do. That's obviously the case. You have desires, that's a fact, etc.

The issue is whether you SHOULD desire one thing rather than another.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:00 pm The issue is whether you SHOULD desire one thing rather than another.

in universe A you SHOULD desire A over B.
in universe B you SHOULD desire B over A.

Which universe are you in?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:05 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:00 pm The issue is whether you SHOULD desire one thing rather than another.

in universe A you SHOULD desire A over B.
in universe B you SHOULD desire B over A.

Which universe are you in?

Neither. The one universe we have is one where there are no facts about what you should desire.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:13 pm Neither. The one universe we have is one where there are no facts about what you should desire.

So in one universe I should desire coffee.
In another universe I shouldn't desire coffee.

Which universe do you think I am in?

If there are no facts on the matter how could I possibly find out what my desires are ?!?!

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:13 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:13 pm Neither. The one universe we have is one where there are no facts about what you should desire.

So in one universe I should desire coffee.
In another universe I shouldn't desire coffee.

Which universe do you think I am in?

If there are no facts on the matter how could I possibly find out what my desires are ?!?!

You simply have whatever desires you do. It's not a fact that you SHOULD have one desire or the other (where you might have the opposite of the desire you should have).

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm You simply have whatever desires you do. It's not a fact that you SHOULD have one desire or the other (where you might have the opposite of the desire you should have).

So in one universe shoulds are facts.
In another universe shoulds are not facts.

Which universe are you in?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:23 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm You simply have whatever desires you do. It's not a fact that you SHOULD have one desire or the other (where you might have the opposite of the desire you should have).

So in one universe shoulds are facts.
In another universe shoulds are not facts.

Which universe are you in?

The second, obviously (aside from the fact that people have whatever dispositions they do, which is not the issue here).

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:24 pm The second, obviously (aside from the fact that people have whatever dispositions they do, which is not the issue here).

What experiment did you perform to distinguish the two cases?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:25 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:24 pm The second, obviously (aside from the fact that people have whatever dispositions they do, which is not the issue here).

What experiment did you perform to distinguish the two cases?

Searching for anything that could count as an extramental "should/ought"

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:26 pm Searching for anything that could count as an extramental "should/ought"

Why are you holding this normative view?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:27 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:26 pm Searching for anything that could count as an extramental "should/ought"

Why are you holding this normative view?

It's not a normative. I hold plenty of normative views, but that's not one of them.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:28 pm It's not a normative. I hold plenty of normative views, but that's not one of them.

Of course it's normative.

If reality is ALL that exists, then searching for "extramental" stuff is special pleading.

Why extramental? Why not any should/ought?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:28 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:28 pm It's not a normative. I hold plenty of normative views, but that's not one of them.

Yes, it's normative.

No, it isn't. There's no ought/should there, no prescription.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:29 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:28 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:28 pm It's not a normative. I hold plenty of normative views, but that's not one of them.

Yes, it's normative.

No, it isn't. There's no ought/should there, no prescription.

You are prescribing that oughts/shoulds must be sought extramentally.

This is an explicit prescription to exclude parts of "all that exists" from your search.

Why?