Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:41 pm**

Now what?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:47 pm**

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:22 pm I can't speak for what AJ is or isn't or what he believes or doesn't and I can't speak for what he will do, however, are you sure that AJ believes what you say he does? If so, then we need to help him think differently. I don't know how to do that alone, but if I have to do it alone, then I will do what I am able.

Meh, he won't tell you what he believes unless he thinks you are open to sharing that belief, that's the purpose of his endless dance.

What I can say for sure is that there is a significant subset of those beliefs that he directly shares, and another subset that he sees the point of but thinks isn't sophisticated enough for his tastes. Where exactly the line is to be drawn can't be attested without his assistance, but he requires semi-plausible deniability so that will not be forthcoming.

So you look at what he cannot bring himself to say or not say and you have to draw your own conclusions. I can say this, his holocaust denial thing was weird. I mentioned a set of conspiracy theories including flat earth, fake moon landings, and holocaust denialism, and he said two are totally untrue and one has truth to it. He will never give a plausible account of what aspect of holocaust denial he finds sympathy with.... He doesn't see it as an assault against an innocent class of persons, he thinks it was necessary self defence. Or he could take that sentence I just wrote and say 'that's horrible, of course I don't believe something as evil as that'.... but he will deflect and say something about me instead.

Likewise with the white supremacist "great replacement theory"; he couldn't, and he won't describe it as a conspiracy theory because he believes it.

But you aren't going to have any impact, I'm sorry, but you won't talk him round. You are a much easier mark than he is and frankly he'd have you waving a tiki torch and shouting about Jews in about a week if you go down that rabbit hole.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:00 pm**

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:47 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:22 pm I can't speak for what AJ is or isn't or what he believes or doesn't and I can't speak for what he will do, however, are you sure that AJ believes what you say he does? If so, then we need to help him think differently. I don't know how to do that alone, but if I have to do it alone, then I will do what I am able.
Meh, he won't tell you what he believes unless he thinks you are open to sharing that belief, that's the purpose of his endless dance.

What I can say for sure is that there is a significant subset of those beliefs that he directly shares, and another subset that he sees the point of but thinks isn't sophisticated enough for his tastes. Where exactly the line is to be drawn can't be attested without his assistance, but he requires semi-plausible deniability so that will not be forthcoming.

So you look at what he cannot bring himself to say or not say and you have to draw your own conclusions. I can say this, his holocaust denial thing was weird. I mentioned a set of conspiracy theories including flat earth, fake moon landings, and holocaust denialism, and he said two are totally untrue and one has truth to it. He will never give a plausible account of what aspect of holocaust denial he finds sympathy with.... He doesn't see it as an assault against an innocent class of persons, he thinks it was necessary self defence. Or he could take that sentence I just wrote and say 'that's horrible, of course I don't believe something as evil as that'.... but he will deflect and say something about me instead.

Likewise with the white supremacist "great replacement theory"; he couldn't, and he won't describe it as a conspiracy theory because he believes it.

But you aren't going to have any impact, I'm sorry, but you won't talk him round. You are a much easier mark than he is and frankly he'd have you waving a tiki torch and shouting about Jews in about a week if you go down that rabbit hole.

I'm not going down that "rabbit hole" I'm trying to bring him out of his. If he doesn't want to share what else he's got in there, then there's nothing I can do but accept on faith that he doesn't have anything in that hole that will do serious harm FROM THIS POINT FORWARD.

Heck, maybe he's in there because he's afraid to come out into a world that he perceives as decadent and/or deranged (or whatever it is). If that's the case, then I don't know what to do about that either. But if me doing something is going to cause him to start mumbling about the "heroic" side of "war", showing me clips from the Godfather or telling stories about being a "mosquito" then, I'll stop posting about some of the things I do. I'll just keep things only to what ideas I have in my head at a given moment. Right now I'm mostly concerned about what is going on in Ukraine. That's about the only thing I see as particularly important for all of us to be at least somewhat concerned about.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:01 pm**

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:19 pm
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:08 pm
You talk so much crap it's hard to tell one hole from the other.
But note: there is no talking, according to you, that is not eo ipso crap.

That is the sole assertion you communicate. There is no other.

You are one obsessed postmodern mind among stunningly obsessed company! Each with his own neurotic pattern.

Why don’t you try not saying mean things to people. It might help you build better communication skills when participating in a discussion about atheism.

Don’t talk about decadence when it’s you who throws around derogatory comments all the time so it seems.

If you’re going to spew crap at people then you’ll be like a muck spreading farmer out in his field on a very windy day. It’s going to come back at yer.

Your playing your part well in the decadent field of muck spreading. Shall we name the man outstanding in his field.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:07 pm**

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:01 pm Shall we name the man outstanding in his field.

Let's not do that. I'll stop posting about my private life if the world can at least stop what's going on in Ukraine and bring about a fair and peaceful resolution. Of course, Putin is more than a little responsible for the trigger he's pulling. But Washington D.C. hasn't exactly been "sane" by some standards either. It's a mess to untangle for sure.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:39 pm**

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:07 pmI'll stop posting about my private life if the world can at least stop what's going on in Ukraine and bring about a fair and peaceful resolution.

The *world* will not do your bidding so I guess :::groan::: I will have to hear the intimate details of your life-situation.

But here is what will happen, and is happening now, in Ukraine. Ukraine is being slaughtered, quite literally, and is being damaged in ways from which it will be very hard to recover.

This came about through 'precipitating conflict' and, I think it fair to say, at the hands of the US.

It is going to end very badly. And think the implications of the lies that have been presented to people about Ukraine's military successes will have serious ramifications.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:42 pm**

Cruel to be Kind

It's a stupid song but it sort of fits here, no?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:44 pm**

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:07 pmI'll stop posting about my private life if the world can at least stop what's going on in Ukraine and bring about a fair and peaceful resolution.
The *world* will not do your bidding so I guess :::groan::: I will have to hear the intimate details of your life-situation.

Well, for whatever it's worth if the world is not going to do my bidding, then I'll stop posting "intimate" details of my life situation if it will make you happier. I guess that's all I can do in this situation. Ants can only accomplish what the other ants are willing to accomplish in unison with him. I suppose that applies to uncles too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:45 pm**

Wonderful choice!

Here's another version:

Cruel to be Kind

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:56 pm**

Thanks. I like the second version. Though, I didn't really look at the first one. I've heard the song before. Right now the second version hits the spot for me. That's all I need to know right now.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:04 pm**

Or is there more I need to know, AJ?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:12 pm**

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:39 pm
This came about through 'precipitating conflict' and, I think it fair to say, at the hands of the US.

Why is it at the hands of the US? Is Putin not responsible for some of it? Why is the war in Ukraine being pursued so adamantly on the part of Putin?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:22 pm**

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:12 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:39 pm
This came about through 'precipitating conflict' and, I think it fair to say, at the hands of the US.
Why is it at the hands of the US? Is Putin not responsible for some of it? Why is the war in Ukraine being pursued so adamantly on the part of Putin?

Because he's had enough of NATO scooping up one country after another and the CIA initiating the 2014 coup in Ukraine.
When Gorbachev brought about Glasnost and Perestroika he dismantled the Warsaw Pact, THis was the world's greatest chance at lasting peace.
Sadly NATO continued to grow and the result of this expansion made the Gorbachev efforts look weak in the face of passive aggression by the west, so we had the rise of less friendly leaders such as Putin.

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:28 pm**

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:12 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:39 pm
This came about through 'precipitating conflict' and, I think it fair to say, at the hands of the US.
Why is it at the hands of the US? Is Putin not responsible for some of it? Why is the war in Ukraine being pursued so adamantly on the part of Putin?
Because he's had enough of NATO scooping up one country after another and the CIA initiating the 2014 coup in Ukraine.
When Gorbachev brought about Glasnost and Perestroika he dismantled the Warsaw Pact, THis was the world's greatest chance at lasting peace.
Sadly NATO continued to grow and the result of this expansion made the Gorbachev efforts look weak in the face of passive aggression by the west, so we had the rise of less friendly leaders such as Putin.

That makes some sense. However, war is not going to solve anything in the way it ought to be solved. Is there no way to resolve differences without invading or sending armies? Is that the only way things can be resolved?

Posted: **Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:29 pm**

Ok guys can we take this war talk to the UKRAINE CRISIS thread. Started by Gary. Many Thanks

Please stay on topic. Much appreciated.

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