Philosophy Now Forum

Logik wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:46 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:44 pm Shows how clueless you are

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/4ARtkT3 ... ed-winning
Rationality is Systematized Winning

If the "irrational" agent is outcompeting you on a systematic and predictable basis, then it is time to reconsider what you think is "rational".

For I do fear that a "rationalist" will clutch to themselves the ritual of cognition they have been taught, as loss after loss piles up, consoling themselves: "I have behaved virtuously, I have been so reasonable, it's just this awful unfair universe that doesn't give me what I deserve. The others are cheating by not doing it the rational way, that's how they got ahead of me."

Now please try to spare me your idiotic comments in the future, and I'll try to ignore the notifications

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:48 pm Now please try to spare me your idiotic comments in the future, and I'll try to ignore the notifications

No can do.

I speak truthfully and candidly and will hapilly reference all of my claims. You will be called out for any bullshit you spew.

So if you want me to leave you alone. Stop being an asshole - because I can win at the "asshole" game too.

And I can't even blame it on my ego - I am just a sanctimonious p**** with an over-developped sense of right and wrong.

Logik wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:43 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:39 am And yet Ken categorically states he has no belief..and you know I just kind of get what what he means by that.

So naive. And I categorically state that I am God. Do you get what I mean by that

Just curious;

If I was to state 'I am ... (add any word here)', then if I want "others" to understand what I mean, then I would have to define what that word is. If, and only if, "others" agreed and accepted that definition for the word, then they would KNOW what I mean. Is this correct?

If no, then why not?

However, if yes, then great AND If I am to state I have NO beliefs, then that is NOT stating I AM some thing but rather I just do NOT do some thing, instead. So, to state I have NO beliefs and "others" KNOW what I mean when I use the word 'belief', then surely they could very easily understand what I mean by 'that'. That is; If I state I have NO beliefs, then what I mean is I do NOT believe nor disbelieve any thing is True, Right, and/or Correct. And, If I state; I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, then how could this get misunderstood.

To me, whatever it is that is being believed to be True, Right, and/or Correct, or, being believed to be NOT True, Right, and/nor Correct is a 'belief'. A 'belief' is what is believed to be true, whereas, for example a 'fact' is what has been proven to be true. A 'belief' NEEDS to be BELIEVED as well as any thing else that can be found in order to be backed up and supported. A 'fact', however, NEEDS nothing to be believed at all because a 'fact' just stands alone, by its self, and just "speaks for itself", as some might say.

Hopefully, this is the end of this but; There is absolutely NOTHING that I believe is True, Right nor Correct. There is also NOTHING that I disbelieve is True, Right, nor Correct. I am OPEN to absolutely EVERY thing, and WANT to remain so.

Now, does any one NOT get what I mean by any or ALL of this?

If so, then please ask questions so that I can clarify any or ALL of this for you.

If any one is NOT going to ask any clarifying questions regarding this, or any thing else for that matter, then please refrain from ASSUMING, as well as BELIEVING, any thing about Me or about any thing that I say.

Stating: I am God, is a much different thing from just stating I do NOT do some thing. I do NOT believe any thing and I do NOT disbelieve any thing, (except for one thing). Now, it is just that simple and not some thing that I thought people would NOT get 'what I meant by that'. Either you agree with and accept this or you do NOT. If any one is NOT going to accept and/or NOT agreeing with it, then prove I have a BELIEF by EXPOSING that BELIEF. Until then please refrain from even just suggesting that I believe some thing. "Forever hold your peace", as they say.

To me each of us here in this forum have a very strong view/idea of some thing, which we all strongly appear to DESIRE/WANT to express and get across to "others". Unfortunately though, because of our past experiences, we are NOT famous enough, do NOT have the "right" credentials, nor are being heard and listened to in other places outside of here so we ended up here in this forum dismissing each others very important views in an ATTEMPT to have our own views heard and understood. To me NO one's views are more nor less important than "another's" are. They are ALL just different views, which actually make up the one and only True View of what IS.

Now, we each find some "others" harder to talk "to" and with, than "others" are, but we ALL have very important things/ideas to express, and which we clearly WANT to share. I can SEE that what we ALL want to share will fit together perfectly somehow, but at the moment, i have NO clue HOW we are going to get there.

We ALL each KNOW our own ideas/views and how they work perfectly clear, but just in TRYING TO express them, they can come across as so "out-there" or "whacky" to "others" that really we are NOT moving forward anywhere. nowhere near as fast as we could be anyway. For example all I am seeing from "logik" is an impulse to absolutely disagree with any thing any one is saying and a continual hiding or "keeping to the chest" what it is that "logik" is truly wanting to express, but I also see in that behavior, that it is 'THAT' itself which is the very thing that is desired to be shared and to be learned and understood by the rest of us. Although i can NOT yet pin point what it is exactly, the absolute importance of it I KNOW is there, for us to discover, find and SEE - UNDERSTAND and KNOW. The 'importance' of it is for ALL of us.

Another example of what is holding me back, more so than "others", from learning is I KNOW the importance of what is within what "dontaskme" is saying but the way it is being expressed to me looks like it could drive a person absolutely crazy to the point of insanity, which is exactly what I am pretty sure "atla" sees in my writings as well. Although I can tell "dontaskme" UNDERSTANDS and KNOWS what is being expressed and that that will NOT drive them crazy it sure looks like a crazy load of mess and contradiction to me, the reader. I honestly do not want to read any more of it at times. Instead of learning how to understand it better, i just prefer to disregard it and start sprouting of what I want to say and share, which I KNOW is NOT the best nor right thing to do, but the individual little self, the 'i', that seemingly "unshakable" 'ego' WANTS to do what it knows best instead.

I KNOW that what i write, at times, LOOKS far crazier, far messier, far more contradictory and absurd, than EVERY one else's writings here, but I am not going to apologize for NOT being able to communicate better, that which I am learning, along the way. If the 'ego' has taken over, then that is that bad and/or wrong habit that I am wanting to learn to get out of, once and for all.

All I know here is that if we just started to understand each others ideas/views MORE instead of wanting to express our own ideas/views MORE then we all could and would learn FAR MORE, and hopefully build off of and with each other in creating some thing that would become Truly useful for human kind (forever more?).

If we all stopped for a second, LOOKED BACK at how we are talking "TO" each other, and not 'WITH' each other, in a thread called; Why humans can't get rid of their egos?, then we, or at least some of us, might find and SEE the irony here?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Logik wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:43 am So naive. And I categorically state that I am God. Do you get what I mean by that

Just curious;

If I was to state 'I am ... (add any word here)', then if I want "others" to understand what I mean, then I would have to define what that word is. If, and only if, "others" agreed and accepted that definition for the word, then they would KNOW what I mean. Is this correct?

Not necessarily.

I have no idea how to define "happiness" or "love" or any of the other human emotions and values. They are things that are difficult to put in words, yet things that we all experience.

And so I have no idea how to define "God" for any definition is probably wrong. I merely used the word because I am 100% certain that nobody can define it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology

Apophatic theology, also known as negative theology,[1] is a form of theological thinking and religious practice which attempts to approach God, the Divine, by negation, to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God.

For all intents and purposes apophatic theology is epistemology.

Apophatically, all that I can say about knowledge is that I don't have any.
Cataphatically I can say: I know that I don't have any knowledge.

And I still don't know HOW to define knowledge but I am speaking ABOUT knowledge.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:16 pmAre you SURE that you "understand" my "main shtick" well enough...

yes "i" think "i" understand it well enough. And i've seen it before many times.

But IF I have NOT expressed it, which I have NOT, then you have NOT seen it one time. So, you OBVIOUSLY could NOT have seen 'it' before ANY time, let alone many times BEFORE.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:30 pmwhatever extra twists there are to it, it doesn't change much, same type

So, from your words here, are you implying that for the rest of forever more you KNOW that "it", whatever that is, does NOT change much and is just the same type? The same type of what exactly also? I might add.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Did "you" forget; I do NOT believe any thing, (except for the one thing), which that one thing is NOT what you are saying here. Therefore, I do NOT believe what "you" are saying I believe.

did the "True Self" say this? i'm always talking to the human.

There is NO use answering a completely CLOSED and PRESUMPTIVE question, such as this one OBVIOUSLY IS.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Yes, i think the True Self is, literally, speaking through you, which "you" BELIEVE is absolutely impossible, but how are "you" going to prove that this is a "psychiatric condition", and not an "awakening", as "you" call "it"?

well there we have it..
you have to prove it that it's real, and not a psychiatric condition like for example schizophrenia, where people can hear voices in their head or think that the "voice" of their intuition is coming from God, etc.

"you" do NOT "have to" prove any thing but if you are going to INSIST that a thing is a particular thing and you can NOT prove it, then what does that say?

What do you think I have to prove. I do NOT believe any thing and I have NOT said any thing is True yet.

You are the one who has beliefs states that things are a particular thing. For example you BELIEVE and state that I have a 'psychiatric condition', which I would never dispute. But you are the one stating it as a fact. Now, how are YOU going to prove this to be true?

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:30 pmalso, it's fairly well understood that "awakening" doesn't produce this effect that you claim

You keep saying that I am saying and claiming things but when I ask you what are these "things" that you are referring to, you are unable to explain what they are.

I will SHOW this with MORE evidence; 'What is this 'effect' that you claim, I claim?'

Now either you will prove me WRONG with providing a sufficient enough answer (for the readers) to this question or you will NOT.

We will wait and SEE.

By the way you also claim to KNOW "my shtick", as you call it. Now, I have absolutely NO idea what you think/BELIEVE this "shtick" is so if you would like to elaborate on what "it" is exactly, then I am sure the readers would be most interested in your insights into "others" unshared views and ideas. The readers might care to also SEE just how much you can prove me WRONG in my view and claim that you are unable to provide any explanation for these claims that you make in regards to me and my views/ideas, or, SEE just how MUCH actual EVIDENCE I am providing for my claims by and through your inability to provide any explanations for your views, claims, and/or beliefs.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:55 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:39 pm

But I was talking to Age who literally believes that the True Self is speaking through him like a giant being. That's a pychiatric condition.

But that is what "atla" BELIEVES. Not Me.

Yes, i think the True Self is, literally, speaking through you, which "you" BELIEVE is absolutely impossible

Now which one?

Now which one what?

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:55 pmyou see the world speaking through humans, yes?

Do not be so hasty as to answer your OWN questions posed to "others", as you inevitably will get them WRONG, again. Like this one.

Define the word 'world' here?

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:04 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:02 pm 3. The True Self is saying absolutely 100% True and Right things all the time. "we', unfortunately, block this out with our unnecessary assumptions, beliefs, et cetera. So, the True Self can and does communicate through ALL human bodies, that is; when what is being expressed through human bodies is True and Right.

Thank you

Was the "thank you" comment, with some sort of face, meant to imply any thing whatsoever?

If it was, then would you care to share that with us. I, for one, have absolutely NO idea what it would be in reference to exactly. I just have a sense that you thanked me because you are grateful that I have proved you with some thing that I can NOT yet grasped. If you have any slightest thinking that there might be some kind of flaw in any thing I wrote, then I would love you to share it with us so that I could be given a chance to correct it or them.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:39 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:30 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:43 am
You are the mean spirited here, instead of trying to help him, you want him to remain screwed up for the rest of his life. Why are you so malignant?

I would NOT be "so concerned" about me atla. The more I am observing and witnessing, especially from one's like yourself, the more things are being verified, and this is helping me to communicate better. Unlike "you" where you found yourself getting more and more in delusion in what you were looking for and thinking you were finding the more I am learning in regards to being able to communicate what was, completely unintentionally, discovered and found. Unlike "you" I did not become screwed up and wrecked. I became better and healed. Although through your comments you would love to see me screwed and wrecked, this just is NOT happening. You really do need to stop BELIEVING that i was any sort of path that you were once on.

Please keep up ALL of your views, judgement, and comments regarding me and my writings. They are far more helpful, than any hindrance at all, to me.

But you've just shown that I've been almost completely spot on about the kind of insanity you've come up with.

But WHAT "insanity" have I supposedly "come up with"?

You would have to provide some kind of example of what I have actually come up with BEFORE you could accurately begin to make such a claim.

What "YOU" provided is NOT what I have "come up with" at all. What "YOU" provided is "YOUR" ASSUMPTION of what you THINK/BELIEVE is the view/idea that I am YET to even SHARE.

As for you being "almost completely spot on", you could NOT be any further from the Truth. You are basing this BELIEF on just a few words that I have said, which if we were to LOOK AT and discuss it might be found that you have taken them out of context COMPLETELY. But considering you do NOT like to actually LOOK AT and discuss things we will NEVER know for sure.

Also, even if you were "almost completely spot on", which you OBVIOUSLY were NOT, you still have the issue of proving with EVIDENCE that that is insanity. Just because a few "others" might have laughed along with you, in regards to what YOU wrote from YOUR mis/interpretation of what was happening, this is still NOT proof of any kind of insanity.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:39 pmWell, your problem

But I do NOT have any problems at all regarding any thing here.

If you do NOT want to LOOK AT and discuss each and EVERY issue, then it would be better for you if you did NOT now PRESUME that what you have been ASSUMING all along has been conceded to be absolutely True and Right.

You do NOT even have the decency to answer my clarifying questions asked to you, in regards to YOUR interpretation of my IDEAS/VIEWS, which AGAIN I have NOT even SHARED yet. So NO one really even KNOWS what my VIEWS/IDEAS are yet, which obviously includes "atla".

What you are ASSUMING I have, in your WRONG words, "come up with" is FALSE and WRONG from the outset. That is; even BEFORE you even BEGIN to start writing any thing down those THOUGHTS inside that body are skewed and distorted from the actual and real Truth of things.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:04 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:04 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:02 pm 3. The True Self is saying absolutely 100% True and Right things all the time. "we', unfortunately, block this out with our unnecessary assumptions, beliefs, et cetera. So, the True Self can and does communicate through ALL human bodies, that is; when what is being expressed through human bodies is True and Right.

Thank you

Was the "thank you" comment, with some sort of face, meant to imply any thing whatsoever?

If it was, then would you care to share that with us. I, for one, have absolutely NO idea what it would be in reference to exactly. I just have a sense that you thanked me because you are grateful that I have proved you with some thing that I can NOT yet grasped. If you have any slightest thinking that there might be some kind of flaw in any thing I wrote, then I would love you to share it with us so that I could be given a chance to correct it or them.

that's exactly what i've been saying all along, you believe that the "True Self" communicates through all human bodies and it's saying absolutely 100% true and right things

none of that is actually happening, you, the human being, is making all of this up

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:53 pm that's exactly what i've been saying all along, you believe that the "True Self" communicates through all human bodies and it's saying absolutely 100% true and right things none of that is actually happening, you, the human being, is making all of this up

Our experiences of the universe are not made up.
How we structure, express and communicate those experiences is all made up.

Language maketh thought.

That language and concepts are made up by us, humans, is immaterial. That's how we communicate.

To undermine the process is to undermine communication.

Logic wrote:
Our experiences of the universe are not made up
How we structure express and communicate those experiences is all made up

Not all experiences are real : dreams / hallucinations / transcendence for example
Thought is a biological function caused by the firing of neurons so it is not made up
Speech is a biological function caused by making sound through the lips / larynx so it is not made up
What is made up is language but without thought / speech there would be no such thing as language

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:49 am

Logic wrote:
Our experiences of the universe are not made up
How we structure express and communicate those experiences is all made up

Not all experiences are real : dreams / hallucinations / transcendence for example
Thought is a biological function caused by the firing of neurons so it is not made up
Speech is a biological function caused by making sound through the lips / larynx so it is not made up
What is made up is language but without thought / speech there would be no such thing as language

You have a weird taxonomy.

My brain does <stuff> while I sleep. The stuff my brain does has consequences. The consequence are what we call "dreams".
LSD interacts with parts of your brain. The interaction has consequences. The consequences are called hallucinations.

Yes. Language is "made up", but it's "made up" by our minds. Minds are consequences of brains.
Language is a consequence of minds. am typing on a keyboard. You are reading my words. My typnig has consequences.

Simply put: If it has conequences - it's real. ALL phenomena are real.

Logic wrote:
ALL phenomena are real

Real is on a spectrum and so some experiences of reality are therefore more real than others
Dreams and hallucinations for example are experiences occurring exclusively within the mind
As they have no bearing on the actual reality we experience when not in these mental states

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:47 am Real is on a spectrum and so some experiences of reality are therefore more real than others
Dreams and hallucinations for example are experiences occurring exclusively within the mind
As they have no bearing on the actual reality we experience when not in these mental states

If it's a spectrum then you need to introduce the other end of the interval.

If it influences your decision-making - it's real.

Have you ever had a dream that gave you the "right answer" to some dillema? I have.
I have used the insights from my dream to make choices. Real.

My bar for "realness" is very low. In fact it's non-existent.

Unocorns are so real they have economic impact on societies. Parents in USA buying unicorn-toys for their kids made by workers in China.

Logik wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:39 pm But you've just shown that I've been almost completely spot on about the kind of insanity you've come up with.
Well, your problem

In my proffessional, scientific opinion Age's mind is far more sensitive to inconsistencies/contradictions than yours.
He is a born scientist. You aren't.

He just has no fucking clue how to communicate, and hasn't figured out yet that the contradictions are only in language.

Or maybe he has *shrug*.

On the other hand - both of you suffer from the exact same mental defect. You are irrationaly afraid of being wrong.

But absolutely EVERY thing I say could be WRONG or partly WRONG. I have stated this many times already, here in this forum. I have also sought out that I be informed of WHEN I am WRONG, and especially and more so WHY I am WRONG. In fact I thrive on being SHOWN WHERE I am WRONG so that I can change.