Philosophy Now Forum

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 4:45 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:36 pm Well, that's a strange claim. How can something contingent and temporary be the "measure" of anything?

Without life there is no value or measure of anything. When in the desert dying of thirst, a bucket of water is more valuable than a bucket of gold because the worth of each is measured by life.

LOL A bucket of water is ALWAYS 'worth more' or is 'more valuable' than a bucket of gold, ANY and EVERY time.

But, then again, you people do have DIFFERENT PRIORITIES and VIEWS, right?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:54 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:47 am
But, WHY can 'you', supposedly, ONLY KNOW 'life', while 'we', ALSO, KNOW so-called 'death', AS WELL?

Before death of the body, what we can only know of the experience of death is an inference based on either witnessing physical death, or imagining physical death.

AND, the IRREFUTABLE Truth of some things can be IMAGINED, and thus ALSO KNOWN.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:54 am Since the presence of thought prevents imagining nothing, then nothing cannot be imagined.

LOL

you may well be UNABLE TO IMAGINE 'absolutely nothing' AT ALL. But, others CAN, and DO.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:10 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:57 am

Folks who have surrendered to drowning and then been revived to tell the tale have reported feelings of euphoria at the end.

So what?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:10 am Dostojevski reported feelings of euphoria caused by a seizure.

Again, so what?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:10 am However, inferring a euphoric experience based on witnessing either a drowning or an epileptic seizure might be difficult in the moment.

So what?

Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:18 am

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 4:45 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:36 pm Well, that's a strange claim. How can something contingent and temporary be the "measure" of anything?

Without life there is no value or measure of anything. When in the desert dying of thirst, a bucket of water is more valuable than a bucket of gold because the worth of each is measured by life.

LOL A bucket of water is ALWAYS 'worth more' or is 'more valuable' than a bucket of gold, ANY and EVERY time.

But, then again, you people do have DIFFERENT PRIORITIES and VIEWS, right?

Such different priorities and views are both the reason for and challenge for DOGE.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:36 am

Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:18 am

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 4:45 am
Without life there is no value or measure of anything. When in the desert dying of thirst, a bucket of water is more valuable than a bucket of gold because the worth of each is measured by life.

LOL A bucket of water is ALWAYS 'worth more' or is 'more valuable' than a bucket of gold, ANY and EVERY time.

But, then again, you people do have DIFFERENT PRIORITIES and VIEWS, right?

Such different priorities and views are both the reason for and challenge for DOGE.

LOL

Could you EXPLAIN TO the readers, here, WHERE those four letters, in 'that order, originated FROM, and FOR what purpose, EXACTLY?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:52 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:43 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 7:30 pm
It's talking about one earthly life, of course.

The KEY problem you and all fund_a_mental_lists have, is that Christ was rarely impressed with the faith and level of discernment of those around him, thus, the stuff they decided to place within "holy" scripture is likely to be rather inaccurate.

And yet, Christ Himself insisted "... truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!" For Him, of course, "the Law" referred to the entire Tanakh. So Christ didn't seem to share your skepticism.

Sure, but that does nothing to support your claim from the NT where Christ's selected company obviously had lack of faith and often inadequate comprehension of Christ's instruction. Thus fundamentalism is foolish.

Immanuel Can wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Immanuel Can wrote:If there were no afterlife, neither could there be the Judgment.

Of course there can. GOD has been judging me for quite some time and indeed, reacting in some rather negative ways on the choices I've made since introducing itself to me since 1997.

To quote an old saying, "We ain't seen nothin' yet."

The saying as far as I am aware, at least from a song lyric is "YOU ain't seen nothin' yet."

And that's spot on concerning actual personal interactions with GOD, for everyone on this forum. It appears ALL of YOU on the forum 'ain't seen nothin' yet.'! -either that, or people are keeping schtum about stuff.

BTW: Is the "Day of Reckoning" just a Catholic concept? Is there any mention of it in scripture - I could do a search I spose, just bein lazy.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 4:45 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:36 pm Well, that's a strange claim. How can something contingent and temporary be the "measure" of anything?

Without life there is no value or measure of anything.

So you're ruling out the existence of God, then, since ordinarily He's identified as the locus of value. Right?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 11:40 am Christ's selected company obviously had lack of faith and often inadequate comprehension of Christ's instruction.

Why should their lack of knowledge, which was cured by later events for them anyway, imply a shortage of knowledge on our part, since we have the advantage of retrospect?

BTW: Is the "Day of Reckoning" just a Catholic concept? Is there any mention of it in scripture - I could do a search I spose, just bein lazy.

I quoted one passage that speaks of it, just a few messages back. But yes, there are a bunch, including Jesus Christ's explicit words in places like Matthew 25:31-46, among others.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 11:40 am Christ's selected company obviously had lack of faith and often inadequate comprehension of Christ's instruction.

Why should their lack of knowledge, which was cured by later events for them anyway, imply a shortage of knowledge on our part, since we have the advantage of retrospect?

Retrospect is no advantage in this case. We are further from the source than they were, and they still kept screwing up. Again, making fundamentalism foolish.

IC wrote:

atto wrote:BTW: Is the "Day of Reckoning" just a Catholic concept? Is there any mention of it in scripture - I could do a search I spose, just bein lazy.

I quoted one passage that speaks of it, just a few messages back. But yes, there are a bunch, including Jesus Christ's explicit words in places like Matthew 25:31-46, among others.

Would you believe I have experienced at least two days of reckoning since eating of the Tree of KnowLedge?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 11:40 am Christ's selected company obviously had lack of faith and often inadequate comprehension of Christ's instruction.

Why should their lack of knowledge, which was cured by later events for them anyway, imply a shortage of knowledge on our part, since we have the advantage of retrospect?

Retrospect is no advantage in this case. We are further from the source than they were, and they still kept screwing up.

They didn't, actually. They only found they couldn't understand until after the Resurrection, at which point they did much better. And retrospect is always a huge advantage, both to them and to us. We couldn't have seen it all coming, for sure; but we can see it when we look back.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:57 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:25 pm
Why should their lack of knowledge, which was cured by later events for them anyway, imply a shortage of knowledge on our part, since we have the advantage of retrospect?

Retrospect is no advantage in this case. We are further from the source than they were, and they still kept screwing up.

They didn't, actually. They only found they couldn't understand until after the Resurrection, at which point they did much better. And retrospect is always a huge advantage, both to them and to us. We couldn't have seen it all coming, for sure; but we can see it when we look back.

OK. So we both agree that the Resurrection occurred.

Now I'm going to take you back to our earlier conversation:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:10 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 12:45 am By "one life" are you suggesting one lifetime? You can't possibly know that.

I think we can. Science tells us the system we're living in is entropic, so it's not going to last forever. And we do not see any unambiguous evidence of people having more than one life, so we have no reason at all to suppose it.

Do you see a problem here with you answer? Christ just proved the power of GOD in ability to resurrect - thus, can certainly reincarnate we mere humans.

I've made the point to you before, that it wouldn't be fair of GOD to judge all as equal based on the conduct of only ONE life incarnation. Some are born into far dire circumstances than you or I, into atheist upbringings where drugs and sexual deviancy, theft the norm etc..

Per what my sage indicated to me (the night he first introduced himself) that we are judged to be reborn into families that we deserve through time, does that not make more sense eventually for the ultimate judgement - possibly coming soon - the apocalypse...

That ALL men are risen (they are - we were already dead from many lives) - all given as equal a balance as possible - from which to finally face the EQUAL judgement?

Are these two, here, trying to CLAIM that the crucifixion of "jesus christ" is just another form of 'assisted suicide'?

If no, then WHY are they talking ABOUT what they are, here?

Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 1:31 pm Are these two, here, trying to CLAIM that the crucifixion of "jesus christ" is just another form of 'assisted suicide'?

Obviously that is what we are doing. The point we are both making is that the Romans assisted Christ to accomplish what he set out to do since he was a nipper.

It's the only thing the Romans ever did for them, poor sods.

Do you have some irrefutable problem with that?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 1:17 pm Now I'm going to take you back to our earlier conversation:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:10 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 12:45 am By "one life" are you suggesting one lifetime? You can't possibly know that.

I think we can. Science tells us the system we're living in is entropic, so it's not going to last forever. And we do not see any unambiguous evidence of people having more than one life, so we have no reason at all to suppose it.

Do you see a problem here with you answer? Christ just proved the power of GOD in ability to resurrect - thus, can certainly reincarnate we mere humans.

Is that what He promises to do, though? Has he promised in His Word to reincarnate people, and to give them multiple cycles in which to prove themselves? In fact, does He say that proving themselves -- in the sense of doing works to show they're 'good enough people' -- is what He wants them to do? Decidedly not: we are told instead that without His salvation, there isn't one of us that's getting to God. And I believe that.

So, no, I don't see a problem with the answer I gave, since it's the one Christ gave. I see a problem with contradicting what Christ says is going to happen, though. And He says we have one life, and then the Judgment.

I've made the point to you before, that it wouldn't be fair of GOD to judge all as equal based on the conduct of only ONE life incarnation.

Yes, it would, of course. That's the advantage of omniscience, I would say: God knows what we started out with, what we did with it, what we could have done with it, and what we ought to have done with it.

I know a lady who lives alone. She's mentally handicapped, severely limited in abilities, and highly vulnerable. But she's also a very sweet, caring and generous-spirited person, one far better than many "privileged" people I know. Will her one life be better or worse, in God's eyes, than theirs, or than mine?

Your question, then, amounts to, "Would you think it unfair of God to reckon her conduct better than your own, since she started from lower down and did all she could with all she had?" And my answer is, "No, not a bit unfair: God is the Judge. I have not the slightest question of His ability to assess all my advantages against her disadvantages, all her achievements against my own, and to reckon her life better than mine. He will do what is right, and I will bow to His judgment."

Yet, as to my "privileges," you could possibly consider that my circumstances may not be even as exalted as your own. Or maybe more exalted. You really have no means to assess that, just as I have no means to assess yours.

But God knows. That's why He's the Judge, and we are not.

True. Jebus Krist is the most famous suicide in history