Philosophy Now Forum

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:45 pm That is rarely what the case is about.

The case. I am talking about Dubai law.

I think that Christiano Ronaldo's case is much more typical. He met her in a nightclub. She undoubtedly liked him because he is a handsome football player. Over the next few days, she understood, however, that he is very wealthy. So, she got her no-cure-no-pay lawyer to sue Ronaldo with a view on a hefty out-of-court settlement. She got two settlements paid out. On the third attempt, the judge said that enough is enough, and threw her case out.

Could be, not relevant.

In every country.

I am currently in Bangkok and practicing it.

The religion of the girl is actually unimportant.

Maybe to you, but in Islam the woman has to be a person of the Book. Not for example a Buddhist or non-believer. You'd probably need witnesses to the arrangment and so on. It's not a mere sugar daddy or prostitution arrangement in Islam.

She still understands the deal perfectly fine. It's about a boyfriend who pays her a sign-on bonus and a weekly allowance. It is in fact a sugar daddy arrangement that complies with Islamic law.

Some people's sense of Islamic law. Not in Sunni Islam. [/quote]

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:06 pm But this assumption does not preclude rape or fear for the woman.

This is presumably an issue in low-income demographics. The man simply cannot afford to have sex with another woman. It's his wife or nothing. If she knows that there are other women in the picture, she would more easily understand how ineffective and even ridiculous it is for her to refuse intimacy.

Yeah, she owes him sex even if she is sick, exhausted, he's in a hurry and pentration hurts without foreplay, he'e being what she considers violent, she was asleep, he calls her a whore during sex, whatever.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:06 pm And nice, implicit insult or whatever this is.

I did not say that you are a "strong and independent woman". Only you can know that.

Maybe you are into pretty bad boys.
Maybe you want a guy to lavishly spend on you.
Maybe you want something else.

You presented two categories of people who would be against your postion: strong independent women and simps. I am neither of those- despite being critical - nor is it relevant. Further, it's hardly the case that only those kinds of people would have issues with your beliefs here.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 12:17 pm Some people's sense of Islamic law. Not in Sunni Islam.

What material conditions would be missing? Not one that I know of.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 12:17 pm You presented two categories of people who would be against your postion: strong independent women and simps. I am neither of those- despite being critical - nor is it relevant. Further, it's hardly the case that only those kinds of people would have issues with your beliefs here.

The only relevant question is whether it is halal. If the family agrees and the girl accepts her mahr, it should be fine. I would only mind if the ulema would point out a problem with the arrangement. Everybody else can s*ck my d*ck. That is the power of Islam.

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:30 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:02 am People care about the functional properties of money, not their form/representation.

Fiat money is scheduled to become worthless. That is considered to be its inevitable destiny. People care that their money is unusable because it is worthless.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:02 am Here's the thing Bitcoin can't do: I can't get a refund if you fail to deliver the services I paid you for. With a debit/credit card - I can.

Same as cash. You need an escrow system of sorts to implement that kind of contracts. That is also what the payment processors of Visa/Mastercard use behind the scenes.

It is not built into any form of currency. You need to build a system on top of it.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:02 am It's more a question of faith. It never will.

It is not based on faith in Bitcoin but on lack of faith in "paper money".

You've missed the forrest for the trees again.

You continue focusing on the form of money while ignoring the function of money.
How very silly.

Bitcoin isn't money. Can't buy shit using Bitcoin while offline. Even credit cards allow off-line transactions.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:20 pm Bitcoin isn't money. Can't buy shit using Bitcoin while offline.

I can't "buy shit" using my banking app either while offline. When I am online, however, I make my local payments three quarters of the time by using its QR Code facility. Debit cards are not used that much for local payments here in SE Asia. By the way, my mobile phone is pretty much always online. I also pay my travel bookings in Bitcoin. It works like a charm.

A lot of merchants cannot accept Bitcoin for regulatory reasons or because their bank would cancel their visa/mastercard processing contract if they did. That is a temporary phenomenon. The more Bitcoin spreads, the harder it will become to enforce that kind of regulations. By the way, Donald Trump has promised to fire Gensler, the boss of the SEC (regulator), during his very first day in office. He also intends to hold Bitcoins as a foreign reserve fund. Bitcoin is increasingly overcoming regulatory obstacles in many countries. Bitcoin is even legal tender in El Salvador. It is effectively the Salvadorian local currency.

As an early adopter, I can indeed not always pay in Bitcoin. I could, if I lived in El Salvador, though.

But then again, I started testing Bitcoin in 2013, when one Bitcoin was worth only $80. Not long after that, I moved my entire emergency fund into Bitcoin. I have kept accumulating my savings in Bitcoin ever since. You can imagine that it is difficult to convince me that there is something wrong with Bitcoin now that one coin is worth $66k+.

I look at what you write and at the same time I look at the balance of my Bitcoin wallet in dollars. So, feel free to try to convince me.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:09 pm I can't "buy shit" using my banking app either while offline.

How's that relevant to your "fiat money" rant?

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:09 pm When I am online, however, I make my local payments three quarters of the time by using its QR Code facility. Debit cards are not used that much for local payments here in SE Asia. By the way, my mobile phone is pretty much always online. I also pay my travel bookings in Bitcoin. It works like a charm.

If waiting 40 minutes for confirmation is what you call "charm" - sure.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:09 pm A lot of merchants cannot accept Bitcoin for regulatory reasons or because their bank would cancel their visa/mastercard processing contract if they did.

Or because 40 minutes latency sucks on a purchase/decision I made in 5 seconds.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:09 pm Bitcoin now that one coin is worth $66k+.

I look at what you write and at the same time I look at the balance of my Bitcoin wallet in dollars. So, feel free to try to convince me.

I look at you measuring the value of your Bitcoin wallet in dollars (while you are NOT measuring the value of your dollars in Bitcoin) and I look at how confused you are.

There's no need to convince you. Even you don't seem to think Bitcoin has any inherent worth/value.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:49 pm If waiting 40 minutes for confirmation is what you call "charm" - sure.

Bitcoin payments are instant on the lightning network. Again, it is not yet particularly widespread for regulatory reasons:

https://acceptlightning.com

Donald Trump still needs to first fire Gary Gensler.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:49 pm I look at you measuring the value of your Bitcoin wallet in dollars (while you are NOT measuring the value of your dollars in Bitcoin) and I look at how confused you are.

The external price level is still in dollars. It is the same as looking at your USD balance of your Chinese Yuan holdings. It will require hyperbitcoinization first before the external price level will switch to Bitcoin. In the meanwhile, goods and services remain priced in USD. I priced software engineering services in USD and accepted settlement in BTC. That is how the transitory phase works.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hodl.asp

Predictably, a meme best captures this HODL maximalist philosophy. Neo from The Matrix asks Morpheus, "What are you trying to tell me, that I can trade my Bitcoin for millions someday?" Morpheus responds, "No Neo, I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready … you won't have to."

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:49 pm There's no need to convince you. You don't even believe what you write.

I have been hodling Bitcoin since 2013. What is it that I do not believe?

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:04 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:49 pm If waiting 40 minutes for confirmation is what you call "charm" - sure.

Bitcoin payments are instant on the lightning network. Again, it is not yet particularly widespread for regulatory reasons:

https://acceptlightning.com

Donald Trump still needs to first fire Gary Gensler.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:49 pm I look at you measuring the value of your Bitcoin wallet in dollars (while you are NOT measuring the value of your dollars in Bitcoin) and I look at how confused you are.

The external price level is still in dollars. It is the same as looking at your USD balance of your Chinese Yuan holdings. It will require hyperbitcoinization first before the external price level will switch to Bitcoin. In the meanwhile, goods and services remain priced in USD. I priced software engineering services in USD and accepted settlement in BTC. That is how the transitory phase works.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hodl.asp

Predictably, a meme best captures this HODL maximalist philosophy. Neo from The Matrix asks Morpheus, "What are you trying to tell me, that I can trade my Bitcoin for millions someday?" Morpheus responds, "No Neo, I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready … you won't have to."

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:49 pm There's no need to convince you. You don't even believe what you write.

I have been hodling Bitcoin since 2013. What is it that I do not believe?

If you believed it had any value you'd price your services in BTC... and the price would be reasonably involatile.

Irrespective the USD-BTC price.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:00 pm If you believed it had any value you'd price your services in BTC... and the price would be reasonably involatile.
Irrespective the USD-BTC price.

If you price your products or services in EUR, does that mean that you believe that the GBP has no value? There are 180 fiat currencies in the world. So, invoicing in one fiat currency amounts to believing that the 179 other fiat currencies are worthless?

In this phase of its existence, Bitcoin can gain or drop 10% in less than an hour, in terms of the external price level. That is why I priced in USD while I settled in BTC. In the end, business is still about making practical decisions.

I have massive Bitcoin exposure in my savings but not in my business transactions.

In theory, I could price in Bitcoin and use a future contract to cover volatility. But then again, the customer would also have to do that. All gains/losses in my future contract would be perfectly mirrored in his future contract. That would be a silly way of achieving exactly the same outcome without pricing in USD.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:15 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:00 pm If you believed it had any value you'd price your services in BTC... and the price would be reasonably involatile.
Irrespective the USD-BTC price.

If you price your products or services in EUR, does that mean that you believe that the GBP has no value? There are 180 fiat currencies in the world. So, invoicing in one fiat currency amounts to believing that the 179 other fiat currencies are worthless?

In this phase of its existence, Bitcoin can gain or drop 10% in less than an hour, in terms of the external price level. That is why I priced in USD while I settled in BTC. In the end, business is still about making practical decisions.

I have massive Bitcoin exposure in my savings but not in my business transactions.

In theory, I could price in Bitcoin and use a future contract to cover volatility. But then again, the customer would also have to do that. All gains/losses in my future contract would be perfectly mirrored in his future contract. That would be a silly way of achieving exactly the same outcome without pricing in USD.

You are so intent on missing the point...

Because money is used for exchanging goods you price yourself in a currency like USD/EUR/GBP. You aren't pricing yourself in BTC.
You don't HODL a money because it depreciates. That's why you are HODLing BTC. You aren't HODL-ing USD/EUR/GBP.

If you were pricing in the volatility (e.g implied volatility) you are using BTC for options trading.
If you believed BTC will ALWAYS go up (NEVER go down) - why won't you price yourself in BTC. You can NEVER lose money.
Of course - you will lose on the opportunity/upside.

The reason you are doing this is because you don't believe BTC is money.
You believe BTC is an option.
You believe it's an asset.
You believe it's an investment whose future-value exceeds its present value.

But you most certainly don't believe BTC is money - nobody invests in money.
Nobody believes that the contents of their wallet will buy them more in 10 years time than it does now.

If that were true - nobody would spend today. They'd spend tomorrow.

Which is what I said...

Skepdick wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:02 am

godelian wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:54 am So, it is just a question of patience before Bitcoin replaces fiat money.

It's more a question of faith. It never will.

It may replace store-of-values - like gold.

And this continues to be true...

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:20 pm You've missed the forrest for the trees again.

You continue focusing on the form of money while ignoring the function of money.
How very silly.

You have no idea what money is.

Even worse - your actions betray that you have no idea what you actually believe about BTC.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:47 am [You aren't pricing yourself in BTC.

If you live in Dubai, you will price your products and services in Dirham because that is what the local price level is expressed in.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:47 am You don't HODL a money because it depreciates. That's why you are HODLing BTC. You aren't HODL-ing USD/EUR/GBP.

Before that, I kept my emergency fund in Euro. I had to hodl it, because that is the role of an emergency fund. It is not meant to be tied down in illiquid assets.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:47 am why won't you price yourself in BTC.

You don't really choose the currency to sell goods and services in. The market does.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:47 am The reason you are doing this is because you don't believe BTC is money.

You keep talking about "what is money" without ever mentioning a definition. Furthermore, even that would be pointless because for Bitcoin hodlers this definition has changed with Bitcoin.

Strategies need to be adapted to reality and not to ideology. That is why I don't care about ideology. I shape my strategy along with what works. It has worked like a charm.

The most critical investment is the emergency fund, and it needs to be as liquid as possible. That is why people may have quite a bit of cash on hand.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:47 am But you most certainly don't believe BTC is money - nobody invests in money.

My emergency fund used to be in EUR. It is in BTC now.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:47 am You have no idea what money is. Even worse - your actions betray that you have no idea what you actually believe about BTC.

Results always trump ideology, and facts are more important than the Lord Mayor of London.

In the debate between idealists and pragmatists, the latter tend to win.

What financial strategy did you try to execute and how much money did you make?

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am If you live in Dubai, you will price your products and services in Dirham because that is what the local price level is expressed in.

Non-sequitur.

If you were a True Believer your price would be fixed in BTC.

This has zero bearing on quoting your customers in their local currency according to the ???-BTC exchange rate.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am Before that, I kept my emergency fund in Euro. I had to hodl it, because that is the role of an emergency fund. It is not meant to be tied down in illiquid assets.

The role of an emergency fund is to NOT lose its value. Which is precisely what happened to everybody's "emergency fund" when hyperinflation struck the Weimar Republic.

But I already said that... store of value is NOT money.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am You don't really choose the currency to sell goods and services in. The market does.

Why are you conflating the currency with the price?

Price yourself in BTC. Quote in local currency.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am You keep talking about "what is money" without ever mentioning a definition.

Why are you lying? I am perpetually drawing your attention to the defining characteristics of money. And distinguishing it from the defining characteristics of assets, currency, options etc. etc. etc.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am Furthermore, even that would be pointless because for Bitcoin hodlers this definition has changed with Bitcoin.

No shit! But the way you are USING it - the characteristics/properties you are exploiting remain.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am Strategies need to be adapted to reality and not to ideology.

Strategies for... what?

I am perpetually drawing attention that your strategy is geared towards value-preservation (store of value).
It's even geared towards exploiting the future value of an asset.

It's NOT geared towards wealth or asset creation.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am That is why I don't care about ideology. I shape my strategy along with what works. It has worked like a charm.

"Work" is a weasel word. What's your utility-function?

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am The most critical investment is the emergency fund, and it needs to be as liquid as possible. That is why people may have quite a bit of cash on hand.

Liquidity becomes immaterial if your liquid emergency fund is worth 0.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am My emergency fund used to be in EUR. It is in BTC now.

Q.E.D That's a store of value! Which is what I said.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am Results always trump ideology, and facts are more important than the Lord Mayor of London.

In the debate between idealists and pragmatists, the latter tend to win.

You are neither a pragmatist nor a winner.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 10:30 am What financial strategy did you try to execute and how much money did you make?

My financial strategy isn't geared for making money. It's geared for making cashflow-generating assets.

My financial strategy is all about paying people who think like you less for your time than I'd pay for mine.

My financial strategy is about creating value/wealth. You are just a stock market gambler/speculator.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:20 am If you were a True Believer your price would be fixed in BTC.

Bitcoin is not a religion.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:20 am Strategies for... what?

That is the most essential question. That is what it really is about. What exactly are you trying to achieve? So, what is your strategy?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:20 am You are neither a pragmatist nor a winner.

You cannot decide who is the winner or loser. The market does that.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:20 am My financial strategy is about creating value/wealth. You are just a stock market gambler/speculator.

Good for you.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:37 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:20 am If you were a True Believer your price would be fixed in BTC.

Bitcoin is not a religion.

Weird, because all stores or exchanges of value based on trust/faith...that this thing you are exchanging has some worth/value.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:37 am That is the most essential question. That is what it really is about. What exactly are you trying to achieve? So, what is your strategy?

Accumulate wealth, not money.

Accumulate value-generating assets that pay for the short and long-term needs of my family, so that I can price myself way way out of the labor/time market.

It is my ultimate goal to be unaffordable - even to the collective wealth of the entire global economy.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:37 am You cannot decide who is the winner or loser. The market does that.

No, it doesn't. The market has no intrinsic value - it doesn't discriminate between winners and losers. There are just resources.

The market is a system for allocating resources.
It's not a system for making qualitative judgments.

Before the market does anything - first you have to have some resources to allocate. Like wealth.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:37 am Good for you.

I know.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:49 am Weird, because all stores or exchanges of value based on trust/faith...that this thing you are exchanging has some worth/value.

Bitcoin solves a lot of problems.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 11:49 am Accumulate value-generating assets that pay for the short and long-term needs of my family, so that I can price myself way way out of the labor/time market.

I achieved that in 2017. I haven't worked since. I have been living off ... my stash of Bitcoins.

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 2:35 pm Bitcoin solves a lot of problems.

Except the problem of value. What's the value of all the bitcoins?

godelian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 2:35 pm I achieved that in 2017. I haven't worked since. I have been living off ... my stash of Bitcoins.

Which you priced in USD... So what's the value of bitcoins? Can you double the value of your assets/wealth?

Oh, right... you don't know how to create any value/wealth.