Going 50/50

[godelian]

Yeah, that's the song&dance all the crypto bros used to sing. The blockchain is law!

We still sing and dance that the Blockchain is law. It is an ideological conviction.

Till their crypto moves to somebody else's wallet because 0-day exploit.

Some platforms may inherently be risky, but Individuals do not need to run that risk.

The primary security principle of digital signature systems, is that you never expose the secret to the network.

I can store my secrets in an even infected or otherwise compromised network-disconnected system. There is no way to transfer an illicit copy of the secrets anyway.

Furthermore, if I supply an unsigned transaction to a network-disconnected signer, I can verify deterministically that the only thing that the signer has done, is to sign it.

RFC 6979. Deterministic Usage of the Digital Signature Algorithm (DSA) and Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (ECDSA)

Then they wanted an "undo" function.

There is no "undo" function on the Bitcoin network, has never been, and will never be.

[godelian]

A true godelian anarcho-capitalist expat in SE Asia. I knew they existed, I jus never knew one.

I am not an anarchist.

For example, I am perfectly fine with the legal system in Dubai. It's just that I am not fine with the legal system in the US or the EU.

Dubai is not an anarchy. They have an Emir who enforces law and order.

[Iwannaplato]

Nowadays, I live in SE Asia.

Which country?
I ask because while the West certainly has problematic practices, there are problematic practices in most of the various SE Asian countries regarding sex and would certainly lead to adults being afraid to have sex. (I'll focus just on sex between consenting adult heterosexuals, though of course there are other issues for other categories)

[Iwannaplato]

Dubai is not an anarchy. They have an Emir who enforces law and order.

Let's talk about fear and sex in Dubai.

1) Rape Prosecution Challenges: A woman who is raped in Dubai faces significant challenges in prosecuting the crime. The legal system requires a high burden of proof, often demanding the testimony of four male witnesses or a confession from the perpetrator. Without such evidence, the victim may face the risk of being accused of consensual sex outside of marriage (zina), which is a serious crime under UAE law. Potential Charges Against Victims: In some cases, women reporting rape have been charged with zina themselves, facing severe penalties, including imprisonment, fines, or deportation. So, a warning to rapists: don't bring four male friends to watch the rape, in case you get on their bad side. Three men and a woman, is not a threat. Heck, you can rape the woman in front of a whole groups of women, perhaps her relatives, and their testimory is worthless.

2) Marital Rape Legality: Marital rape is not explicitly criminalized in Dubai. The UAE's legal framework does not recognize marital rape as a separate offense, and there are no specific laws protecting women from rape within marriage. Thus, men can rape their wives without facing legal consequences under the current law.

3) Punishments for Adult Premarital Sex: Premarital sex is illegal in Dubai and is punishable under the law. If two adults are caught engaging in consensual sex outside of marriage, they can face severe penalties, including imprisonment, fines, and deportation. The consequences are generally the same for both men and women, although women might face additional social stigma.

To me this is localized anarchy.

What southeast Asia country do you live in?

[godelian]

Which country?

This week, I am in Bangkok. There's someone who happens to be crazy of shopping at Icon Siam.

I ask because while the West certainly has problematic practices, there are problematic practices in most of the various SE Asian countries regarding sex and would certainly lead to adults being afraid to have sex. (I'll focus just on sex between consenting adult heterosexuals, though of course there are other issues for other categories)

Breaking up, but still trying to get half my assets, or demanding that I continue paying her weekly allowance forever?

There's no legal basis for that in Thailand. Furthermore, she is not even a Thai national.

In Europe or the USA or similar, she can show from her bank statements that I regularly gave her money and demand that I keep doing that. I would have to do everything with cash, but even then, she could probably use chat messages as evidence. The "divorce" judge will obviously side with her, even though we don't live together. The only way to avoid this outcome is never to provide any recurring financial benefits to a woman. That means casual sex only, which in my opinion is quite counter-natural behavior. You would need to change sexual partner as often as you change your underwear.

[Iwannaplato]

Which country?

This week, I am in Bangkok. There's someone who happens to be crazy of shopping at Icon Siam.

I ask because while the West certainly has problematic practices, there are problematic practices in most of the various SE Asian countries regarding sex and would certainly lead to adults being afraid to have sex. (I'll focus just on sex between consenting adult heterosexuals, though of course there are other issues for other categories)

Breaking up, but still trying to get half my assets, or demanding that I continue paying her weekly allowance forever?

There's no legal basis for that in Thailand. Furthermore, she is not even a Thai national.

In Europe or the USA or similar, she can show from her bank statements that I regularly gave her money and demand that I keep doing that. I would have to do everything with cash, but even then, she could probably use chat messages as evidence. The "divorce" judge will obviously side with her, even though we don't live together. The only way to avoid this outcome is never to provide any recurring financial benefits to a woman. That means casual sex only, which in my opinion is quite counter-natural behavior. You would need to change sexual partner as often as you change your underwear.

As far as I can see Thailand allows even for permanent alimony, depending on the circumstances. I don't know if the woman can use the bank statements and demand, in and of itself, that previous financial support by the husband must be continued, but she can nevertheless use bank statements in the divorce proceedings and ask for and potentially receive permanent support - with provisos for remarriage, her ability to find and perform work, whether she must be at home, for example, with children and so on.

And compared to Muslim lands her ability to prosecute rape, including marital rape, is much more postive.

I like Thailand quite a bit in general and have lived there.

[godelian]

Rape Prosecution Challenges

There is a substantial burden of evidence but I consider that to be a good thing.

In my opinion, most so-called "date rapes" are not truly violent rapes but situations in which the victim is highly complicit. If a woman intends to backpedal after the "point of no return" she is engaging in bad practice which will sooner or later go badly wrong.

The burden of evidence in the case of date rape is incredibly hard because of all the complicity involved.

I don't run into that kind of problems because I make a deal first, in which she gets a sign-on bonus ("mahr") and a weekly allowance ("nafaqah"). If she wants to break up, she just stops giving sexual access and I stop making payments. I have never had serious trouble with the "niqah" framework. In my experience, it works like a charm.

Marital Rape Legality

If the husband keeps providing "nafaqah", then the wife has to keep providing sexual access. Otherwise, it's preferably that both sides stop providing anything at all to each other.

Again, I have personally never had that kind of problems. I would simply recruit someone else.

The burden of evidence is again incredibly hard because there is a presumption that the wife agrees to sex with her husband.

Punishments for Adult Premarital Sex

It is illegal in the same sense that prostitution is illegal in Dubai. As long as it does not disturb public order, nobody cares. In principle, nobody gives a flying fart what two adults do in their bedroom. Prostitution is rampant in Dubai. Casual sex undoubtedly even more.

To me this is localized anarchy.

Dubai is very popular, also amongst westerners. There are only 300,000 Emerati in Dubai while there are 450,000 westerners on a total population of over 3 million.

There are popular videos on YouTube and articles in the press that are quite critical of Dubai but never for the reasons that you have mentioned.

Concerning "Rape Prosecution Challenges" and "Marital Rape Legality", the western approach to the matter would be highly unpopular amongst especially the foreign women in Dubai because it would badly damage and impair their real business model, which is to find a long-term boyfriend, sugar daddy, or husband to lavishly spend on them. Dubai won't grant them a visa to look for one, though.

I agree that strong, independent women tend to have a different opinion. (Male) simps too. But then again, these strong, independent women don't seem to fancy relationships with these simps. They often still want a traditional man while absolutely not being traditional themselves.

[promethean75]

"This week, I am in Bangkok. There's someone who happens to be crazy of shopping at Icon Siam."

What do ya mean? You've seen one crowded, polluted, stinking town. Tea girls, warm and sweet. Some are set up in the Somerset Maugham suite. Get Thai'd! You're talking to a tourist
Whose every move's among the purest. I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine

[promethean75]

Tea girls warm and sweet, some are set up in the Somerset Maugham suite.

Until now, none of u knew that's what they were sayin. Every time u heard that song in the car, at the skating rink and in the shopping mall, you'd hear that part and just kinda absentmindedly sound it out in your head. But now u can actually sing that part, and u rejoice.

[Iwannaplato]

There is a substantial burden of evidence but I consider that to be a good thing.

Four male witnesses or a confession is more that subtantial evidence. The exclusion of female witness is ridiculous.

In my opinion, most so-called "date rapes" are not truly violent rapes but situations in which the victim is highly complicit. If a woman intends to backpedal after the "point of no return" she is engaging in bad practice which will sooner or later go badly wrong.

So you think most dates rapes involve a woman backpedaling at the point of no return. How did you figure that out?

The burden of evidence in the case of date rape is incredibly hard because of all the complicity involved.

I'm not sure why your just talking about date rape. It was any rape. He runs out of the bushes and knocks her to the ground.

I don't run into that kind of problems because I make a deal first, in which she gets a sign-on bonus ("mahr") and a weekly allowance ("nafaqah"). If she wants to break up, she just stops giving sexual access and I stop making payments. I have never had serious trouble with the "niqah" framework. In my experience, it works like a charm.

I think it's unlikely you would have problems with this system. And perhaps you are kind and responsible, etc., so the women you do this with are not victimized. But it certainly opens the door to all sorts of potential problems for the woman, especially in a Muslim society.

Marital Rape Legality

If the husband keeps providing "nafaqah", then the wife has to keep providing sexual access. Otherwise, it's preferably that both sides stop providing anything at all to each other.

What country do you practice this in?

Again, I have personally never had that kind of problems. I would simply recruit someone else.

The burden of evidence is again incredibly hard because there is a presumption that the wife agrees to sex with her husband.

Well, obviously. But this assumption does not preclude rape or fear for the woman.

Punishments for Adult Premarital Sex

It is illegal in the same sense that prostitution is illegal in Dubai. As long as it does not disturb public order, nobody cares. In principle, nobody gives a flying fart what two adults do in their bedroom. Prostitution is rampant in Dubai. Casual sex undoubtedly even more.

From what I can find they rigorously enforce laws against prostitution. They do enforce laws against premarital sex, but it's less clear how often.

I agree that strong, independent women tend to have a different opinion. (Male) simps too. But then again, these strong, independent women don't seem to fancy relationships with these simps. They often still want a traditional man while absolutely not being traditional themselves.

LOL. I didn't assert what you 'agree' with above. And nice, implicit insult or whatever this is. The elided logic and speculation didn't make much sense.

[godelian]

I'm not sure why your just talking about date rape. It was any rape. He runs out of the bushes and knocks her to the ground.

That is rarely what the case is about. I think that Christiano Ronaldo's case is much more typical. He met her in a nightclub. She undoubtedly liked him because he is a handsome football player. Over the next few days, she understood, however, that he is very wealthy. So, she got her no-cure-no-pay lawyer to sue Ronaldo with a view on a hefty out-of-court settlement. She got two settlements paid out. On the third attempt, the judge said that enough is enough, and threw her case out.

I think it's unlikely you would have problems with this system. And perhaps you are kind and responsible, etc., so the women you do this with are not victimized. But it certainly opens the door to all sorts of potential problems for the woman, especially in a Muslim society.

In my opinion, the problem is more likely to occur at the bottom of society where the husband is poor and the wife generally dissatisfied with the arrangement, or there are other reasons why she feels that she is not getting what she wants. The marriage likely started by her "settling for" him, or it's about a pretty bad boy that she did not expect much from financially, but only initially, and she changed her mind later on.

What country do you practice this in?

In every country.

I am currently in Bangkok and practicing it.

The religion of the girl is actually unimportant. She still understands the deal perfectly fine. It's about a boyfriend who pays her a sign-on bonus and a weekly allowance. It is in fact a sugar daddy arrangement that complies with Islamic law.

We're going for a stroll to Khaosan Road now. Our taxi driver speaks fluent Khmer. He has a strong accent, though. I suspect that he is from the Thai province of Khmer Surin, in Isan.

But this assumption does not preclude rape or fear for the woman.

This is presumably an issue in low-income demographics. The man simply cannot afford to have sex with another woman. It's his wife or nothing. If she knows that there are other women in the picture, she would more easily understand how ineffective and even ridiculous it is for her to refuse intimacy.

And nice, implicit insult or whatever this is.

I did not say that you are a "strong and independent woman". Only you can know that.

Maybe you are into pretty bad boys.
Maybe you want a guy to lavishly spend on you.
Maybe you want something else.

Everybody has some expectations from participating in the marketplace. Some people don't even want to participate.

People come in all shapes and colors and with their own ideas of what they want.

[Skepdick]

<blah blah blah>

So when I use a 0-day exploit to either appropriate your "secret" keys, or make you sign something you aren't meant to sign.

Either way - when I use a 0-day exploit to steal the token which represents your digital identity; when I impersonate "you" and hijack your "agency".... then what?

When I use a 0-day exploit to hijack the control flow and make the system DO something you didn't indent to do... then what?

There is no "undo" function on the Bitcoin network, has never been, and will never be.

And that's why it's never going to replace social structures.

There's "undo" in society.
There's "undo" in transactional systems.
There's even "undo" in physical systems.

In social structures intent matters. Nobody intends to hand over all their wealth - no matter what the blockchain says.
I can't lose everything I own just because stuff erroneously moved from one column in a ledger into another.


The blockchain is not law. The law is law.

[godelian]

There is no "undo" function on the Bitcoin network, has never been, and will never be.

And that's why it's never going to replace social structures.

Fiat money will collapse, and by design so. Bitcoin won't. Also by design.
Once fiat money has collapsed, it won't get replaced by new fiat money.
Why would anybody trust the new fiat money?
So, it is just a question of patience before Bitcoin replaces fiat money.

[Skepdick]

Fiat money will collapse, and by design so. Bitcoin won't. Also by design.
Once fiat money has collapsed, it won't get replaced by new fiat money.
Why would anybody trust the new fiat money?

Who cares about the form of money? Anything could represent "money".

I haven't needed to use cash in 24 months. I just tap my watch and I get stuff in exchange.

People care about the functional properties of money, not their form/representation.

Here's the thing Bitcoin can't do: I can't get a refund if you fail to deliver the services I paid you for. With a debit/credit card - I can.

So, it is just a question of patience before Bitcoin replaces fiat money.

It's more a question of faith. It never will.

It may replace store-of-values - like gold.

[godelian]

People care about the functional properties of money, not their form/representation.

Fiat money is scheduled to become worthless. That is considered to be its inevitable destiny. People care that their money is unusable because it is worthless.

Here's the thing Bitcoin can't do: I can't get a refund if you fail to deliver the services I paid you for. With a debit/credit card - I can.

Same as cash. You need an escrow system of sorts to implement that kind of contracts. That is also what the payment processors of Visa/Mastercard use behind the scenes.

It is not built into any form of currency. You need to build a system on top of it.

It's more a question of faith. It never will.

It is not based on faith in Bitcoin but on lack of faith in "paper money".