Wonkers and Israel

[Walker]

Lots of information at this link.

Hamas’ use of human shields in Gaza
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles ... hields.pdf

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY Hamas, an Islamist militant group and the de facto governing authority of the Gaza Strip, has been using human shields in conflicts with Israel since 2007. According to the Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the war crime of using human shields encompasses “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operations.” Hamas has launched rockets, positioned military-related infrastructure-hubs and routes, and engaged the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from, or in proximity to, residential and commercial areas.

The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. If the IDF uses lethal force and causes an increase in civilian casualties, Hamas can utilise that as a lawfare tool: it can accuse Israel of committing war crimes, which could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. Alternatively, if the IDF limits its use of military force in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less susceptible to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight. Moreover, despite the Israeli public’s high level of support for the Israeli political and military leadership during operations, civilian casualties are one of the friction points between Israeli left-wing and right-wing supporters, with the former questioning the outcomes of the operation.

[seeds]

Lots of information at this link.

Hamas’ use of human shields in Gaza
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles ... hields.pdf

If 2.10 million men, women, and children are crammed into an "outdoor prison" (a "concentration camp") that is but a mere 25 miles long x 5 miles wide, then logic dictates that no matter from which area of the prison certain members of the 2.10 million (wrongly imprisoned) inmates launch their attacks against their evil and oppressive captors, there will be other inmates nearby who may be affected by the captor's retaliation.

Is it really a surprise to anyone (besides Walker) that desperate situations call for desperate measures by people who have been forced from their homes and livelihoods by an invading army?

What would you do if the same thing happened to you and all of your family, friends, and loved ones?

The painful irony of this festering problem taking place between the Israelis and the Palestinians can be "loosely" seen in the following World War 2 image...



...where the German civilians were forced to walk through the liberated concentration camps in order to make them see (and smell and feel) the shame of the ghastly horror of the piles of corpses of the jews who were slowly tortured and murdered on their behalf

However,...

(and setting aside the fact that one of the players is different)

...in just a few short decades, the roles are reversed, and it is now the Jews (and their western supporters) who must be forced to see what they are doing to the Palestinians.

How can the supporters of Israel be so utterly blind to this obvious and unconscionable parallel?
_______

[Walker]

How can the supporters of Israel be so utterly blind to this obvious and unconscionable parallel?
_______

Ben Shapiro addresses the concern.
https://patriotpost.us/opinion/101588-t ... 2023-10-25

The easiest moral place to stand is in the middle.

Standing in the middle is comforting. It grants you the illusion that you are being evenhanded, that you see nuance and complexity where others see black and white. It is flattering to be in the middle — no one hates your viewpoint enough to make you their opponent, and yet you get to stand apart from everyone, tut-tutting both sides.

When it comes to Israel and its terror-backing enemies, the West has, for some decades, taken precisely that position.

Sure, Israel should be able to defend itself.

But not too much.

Yes, Israel has the right to exist.

But it must make concessions to those who seek Israel’s destruction.

When Israel’s enemies pursue the worst atrocities in four generations, it’s difficult to maintain that position of studied neutrality, in which attacks on Israel are chalked up to political differences and shrugged away. It turns out that scenes of brutally massacred children, women and men tend to upset the moral stomach.

But then the stomach settles again.

All it takes to return to that sophisticated neutrality is a few false platitudes — a few comforting lies.

Three of those lies have been provided in significant supply by the hard Left and its allies in the legacy media.
The first lie is that Israel must be warned not to engage in human rights violations.

We hear this nostrum all the time: from the president of the United States, from the United Nations, from the media. The idea is that if Israel’s leadership isn’t reminded in the wake of the worst pogrom since the Holocaust, those rude Jews might carpet-bomb Gaza. The purpose of the lie is simple: to get Israel to stop defending itself at the first available opportunity. If you warn the world that Israel is likely to pursue atrocities, and then — as inevitably happens in war — something terrible happens, Israel can quickly be shoved back into the box of moral equivalence.

Voila! Status quo ante restored.

Of course, this lie is a lie. And it is a stupidly offensive lie, in the same way that it is a lie when the United Nations warns the United States about human rights violations. Israel is a professional military that abides by the rules of war. Its enemies openly cheer the death of civilians, both Israel’s and their own. By all rights, the entire political and media infrastructure ought to be using their supposed moral suasion on human rights to convince Hamas to release hostages and protect their own citizens. But, of course, there’s no real interest in that. The lie must be maintained. Israel has to be warned about human rights, because secretly, the Jews are just like Hamas.

Then there’s the second lie: that we must all remember the vaunted Peace Process. Yes, the Peace Process that was obviously and clearly a ruse undertaken by Yasser Arafat in order to provide the jumping-off point for a genocidal war on the Jews; the Peace Process that has ended in the election of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the leadership of Islamic Jihad and the terror-paying Palestinian Authority in the West bank. We must, the lie goes, remember the two-state solution!

Of course, this lie is dangerous, too. It’s dangerous because, once again, it inevitably places the blame on Israel for terrorism against Israel. If only the Jews had made more concessions — other than, you know, the partition plan of 1947 (rejected by the Arabs); the Egyptian-Israeli peace deal of 1979 (the Arab states boycotted Egypt after Anwar Sadat’s peace with Israel for almost a decade); the Oslo Accords themselves; Ehud Barak’s 2000 Camp David proposal (rejected by Arafat, and a violent terror war launched resulting in the death of 1,184 Israelis); the Gaza Withdrawal of 2005 (Hamas was elected and has been launching terror attacks ever since); Ehud Olmert’s 2008 peace plan (rejected by Mahmoud Abbas outright); and former President Donald Trump’s so-called Deal of the Century (rejected before even being seen).

But Israel, the lie goes, must continue to make painful concessions. If they don’t, Jew-murder is inevitable. Moral equivalence restored!

Finally, there’s the third lie: that anti-Zionism has nothing to do with antisemitism. That lie is currently being encouraged by the equation of antisemitism with Islamophobia by many members of our elite. The antisemitism we see today on college campuses is part and parcel of the anti-Semitism that ended with the slaughter of 1,500 Jews in the Gaza Envelope: hatred of Jews is the driving force behind hatred of Israel. But in order to restore any semblance of moral cover for hating Israel, anti-Zionism must be separated from anti-Semitism. The easiest way to accomplish that is to downplay the obvious reflection between international Jew-hatred and attacks on Israel, and instead to subsume anti-Semitism under the broader rubric of lack of multicultural tolerance.

It’s a lie, and it’s an obvious lie. Yes, there are occasional acts of targeting of Muslims. They are nothing like the targeting of Jews. They do not follow the same logic, they do not occur anywhere near as frequently, and they are not spurred by a sort of cycle of violence in the Middle East.

All of these comforting lies are useful in allowing the morally idiotic to attempt to regain a high ground via a falsely restored moral equivalence. And how eager they are for that moral equivalence! That moral equivalence allows Leftist Jews to pretend that they won’t be lumped in with their fellow Jews by the intersectional coalition; it allows the intersectional to pretend that they are on the side of the righteous even as they make excuses for Hamas; it allows the international community to continue to pressure Israel after the mass murder of Jews.

Never Again doesn’t apply, after all, if the Jews are part of the problem.

And so, after approximately one week of global dyspepsia with the evil of Hamas, the world is gradually returning to its steady diet of moral equivalency. They’re doing so with eagerness and alacrity. And that should be terrifying to those who actually oppose genocidal Jew-hatred.

[Impenitent]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/us ... =104396399

comrade Biden has attacked Syria

just a matter of time before communist utopia gives paradise to everyone

see you in hell

-Imp

[Walker]

The Hate-Israel faction is working hard to make it so.

[Walker]

Prager University
Why Isn't There a Palestinian State?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76NytvQAIs0

If Israel just allowed the Palestinians to have a state of their own, there would be peace in the Middle East, right? That’s what you hear from UN ambassadors, European diplomats and most college professors. But what if I told you that Israel has already offered the Palestinians a state of their own - and not just once, but on five separate occasions? Don’t believe me? Let’s review the record.

Explain the region in five minutes.

Okay. Watch the video and pay attention.

[Gary Childress]

'This' here seems rather VERY HYPOCRITICAL. But 'each to their own', as some say.

Then stop being a hypocrite, Age. Problem solved.

What do 'you' think or believe I am being a hypocrite in regards to here "gary childress"?

Because you don't listen and then demand others listen to you. HYPOCRITE!

[seeds]

How can the supporters of Israel be so utterly blind to this obvious and unconscionable parallel?
_______

Ben Shapiro addresses the concern.
https://patriotpost.us/opinion/101588-t ... 2023-10-25
[......]

Oh my gosh!!!

A Jewish person (Ben Shapiro) speaks out in defense of Israel.

What's next, an essay justifying Israel's actions written by Netanyahu?

In his pointing out the wishy-washy stance of the "middle-grounders," Shapiro laments that what the mg's are basically asserting is...

"Sure, Israel should be able to defend itself.

But not too much."

However, the question is, what is it that has placed the Israelis in the position of needing to defend themselves???

He continues on with what he believes is the middle-grounder's stance...

"Yes, Israel has the right to exist.

But it must make concessions to those who seek Israel’s destruction."

Again, we must ask, what is the initial instigating problem that gave rise to those who seek Israel's destruction???

He concludes this line of reasoning with...

"When Israel’s enemies pursue the worst atrocities in four generations, it’s difficult to maintain that position of studied neutrality,..."

Apparently, something happened within the last few generations that seems to be the root cause for the creation of Israel's enemies.

Hmmm, I wonder what that could be???

Do you, Walker, actually believe that anyone with two working brain cells would not notice that both you and Shapiro are completely ignoring the huge stinking gorilla sitting in the midst of that essay?

Now, just to be clear, of course the humans who call themselves Israelis and Jews have a right to exist somewhere in peace where they can thrive and prosper,...

...but not under the treacherous (1948) circumstances of violently expelling others from the land and homes they have lived in for centuries.

Now just include with that the additional insult of forcing those whom they've stolen from to live in what has been described as an "open air prison",...

...simply because they haven't rolled over like some frightened dogs and accepted the fate arbitrarily chosen for them by western powers who are driven by nefarious imperialistic goals.

In the "The thoughts of Nisargadatta Maharaj" thread, you quoted the following...

Question: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world?
SNM: Of course I am, much more than you are.

Question: Then what do you do?
SNM: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that all is well.

Question: How can you say that all is well? Look at the wars, the exploitation, the cruel strife between the citizen and the state.
SNM: All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man’s
power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the
results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be
restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the
healing hand of God.

With the above in mind, you need to realize - once and for all - that there is nothing righteous about what Israel and its western supporters have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians.

And if it is indeed true that...

"...Karma is the law that works for righteousness..."

...then rest assured that karma has some unpleasant surprises in store for both Israel and America.
_______

[Peter Kropotkin]

seeds:

Question: How can you say that all is well? Look at the wars, the exploitation, the cruel strife between the citizen and the state.
SNM: All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man’s
power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the
results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be
restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the
healing hand of God.[/quote]
With the above in mind, you need to realize - once and for all - that there is nothing righteous about what Israel and its western supporters have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians.

And if it is indeed true that...

"...Karma is the law that works for righteousness..."

...then rest assured that karma has some unpleasant surprises in store for both Israel and America.


K: two things, all those ''sufferings are man-made, with the possibility
of ending if, if we actually went past our illusions/maya...

two: I thought that the MAGA and IQ45 was Karma for America!!!!!!!!!

Kropotkin

[seeds]

seeds:

K: two things, all those ''sufferings are man-made, with the possibility
of ending if, if we actually went past our illusions/maya...

You need to pose whatever it is you are getting at to Nisargadatta Maharaj by way of his disciple, Walker, who provided the quote.

However, in the meantime, if you would like, I could take off my shirt (exposing my flabby old body) and assume the lotus position on a pillow as you ask me something else, while I stare at you like this...

two: I thought that the MAGA and IQ45 was Karma for America!!!!!!!!!

Yes, MAGA and Trump are indeed an aspect of the necrotizing karma that's coming at America from multiple directions for multiple reasons.

What's your point?
_______

[Age]

Then stop being a hypocrite, Age. Problem solved.

What do 'you' think or believe I am being a hypocrite in regards to here "gary childress"?

Because you don't listen and then demand others listen to you. HYPOCRITE!

AND, what do 'you' think or believe that I am NOT listening to, EXACTLY, "gary childress"?

ALSO, and by the way, WHEN have I EVER, SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY, 'demanded' "others" listen to me?

[Walker]

...

You're saying that Hamas did what it does because it is a victim.

At that level of understanding, then it's obvious that Israel is also doing what it must do, because Hamas wants Israel destroyed, and it wants every Jew dead ... big time victim.

Hamas' reasons are irrelevant to their targets, who do what they must do to live or die.

Decent folks can't have neighbors like this coming around and killing their kin. Hamas had plenty of time and donations to build a pardise for themselves along the Mediterranian, and they built a military installation fortified with civilians.

Come on. Get real.

*

For the sake of peace on earth, let's hope your prejudice against Indians does not match the level of Hamasian prejudice against Jews.

[Walker]

...then rest assured that karma has some unpleasant surprises in store for both Israel and America.

You are supposing the future. The present indicates that Hamas is experiencing Karma now.

Do they believe in karma? I think they believe in the reward of paradise for martyrs who slaughter infidels, one of which you likely are.

[Walker]

With the above in mind, you need to realize - once and for all - that there is nothing righteous about what Israel and its western supporters have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians.

The mission of Hamas is to destroy all the Jews.
The mission of the Jews is to not be destroyed.

Each is motivated to action by their mission.

[Walker]

Yes, MAGA and Trump are indeed an aspect of the necrotizing karma that's coming at America from multiple directions for multiple reasons.

What's your point?
_______

You do realize that Biden and American Marxists are radiating the trouble in America, right now. The present, not your fantasy.

What's happening is the logical extension of what Obama started, and continues with Biden as a front man.

You know how these Progressive/Marxist/Democrats like to meddle in foreign affairs. Bush, btw, was a Progressive who tossed away his veto power in favor of Democrat approval, you know, non-partisanship.

Trump was an interlude of peace and prosperity that interrupted the mission of Democrats: which is fundamental change in the mideast to balance Israel's power with Iran. Trouble is with the Democrats (and their masters), you just can't expect Terrorists to follow their plan, as they have a tendency to go on slaughtering rampages to provoke.

If Israel was like Hamas, it would turn "Gaza to glass*".


* Imp