Göbekli Tepe

[Age]

WHEN did you become OPEN?

It is not a question about when you become OPEN.

Which is why I didn't ask you when I became OPEN.

You completely misinterpreted what I said, missed my point, and so have misunderstood me.

The 'you' does NOT become OPEN initially as 'you' WERE OPEN, "in the beginning".

A better question to ask is; When did the 'you' become CLOSED, and/or, When did you become OPEN, AGAIN?

You can't possibly know when I became OPEN.

Maybe not if you do not tell us. But I can easily tell if you are OPEN or not.

Only I know the answer to that question.

But you could not possibly KNOW the answer to this question if and when you are still closed.

What I asked you was when you became OPEN.

A human being could 'become OPEN', and closed, many times in their lifetime.

However 'I' am OPEN, ALWAYS.

'i' am OPEN when i am NOT assuming, and NOT believing, that i know what is true, right, and/or correct.

And perhaps an even better question yet: have you become OPEN yet?

Yes.

The question is when did you become CLOSED?

I was born CLOSED, then I learned to become OPEN.

LOL

So when did 'you' learn to become OPEN?

What were the lessons, which taught you to become OPEN?

How exactly did you make your self OPEN?

Are you always OPEN, now?

What were you before you became OPEN?

Again, this question does not work.

You seem CLOSED to the idea that it does work.

Fair enough.

How about you now SHOW how that question does work by explaining what the 'you' was before it became OPEN.

In fact how about also explaining who and/or what the 'you' IS, exactly. So, that we can SEE if that question of yours does actually work, or not.

When, and if, the 'you' discovers or learns who and what the 'you' actually IS and who and what the 'I' actually IS as well, then IF that question works or not will be clearly KNOWN, for sure, anyway.

[Age]

And what if you KNOW this wrong too?

And what IF you explained WHY you BELIEVE that only around 12,000 years ago was when the "first humans" existed?

By your definition of "belief", I have only one belief, and not the above.

What do you think is my definition of the word 'belief'?

And what is that only one belief that you have, in the definition of the word 'belief' that you think I have?

Nor did I use the word "human" in the sense you think I used it.

So in what sense did you use the word 'human'?

And, in what sense do you think I thought you used the word 'human'?

[Atla]

And what IF you explained WHY you BELIEVE that only around 12,000 years ago was when the "first humans" existed?

By your definition of "belief", I have only one belief, and not the above.

What do you think is my definition of the word 'belief'?

And what is that only one belief that you have, in the definition of the word 'belief' that you think I have?

Nor did I use the word "human" in the sense you think I used it.

So in what sense did you use the word 'human'?

And, in what sense do you think I thought you used the word 'human'?

Ask the universe

[Atla]

...

Do you hear voices btw, if yes how many?
You said your readers are telling you things within minutes.

[surreptitious57]

It appears to me that you have completely misunderstood misinterpreted or just plain forgotten what I have been saying which is I am here in this forum to learn how to communicate better . Nothing more and nothing less . Therefore my goal here in this forum is NOT to be fully understood

Then why did you claim in the other thread that your reason for being here is to be fully understood
The very same day you said this you now say your reason for being here is not to be fully understood
So can you now state very clearly and very precisely which one it is since it obviously cannot be both

You ARE communicating better but you are still here so then why is this
Is is because you think you can communicate better than you already are

You can also communicate better AND be fully understood at the same time so if you do not want to
be fully understood [ why not ] then you will not be able to communicate as well as you would like to

Why cannot you get everyone here to become more open instead of leaving the forum as soon as you can communicate to a certain standard
How is anyone going to learn from you and become a better human being if you leave the forum when ever you want to never to return again

[Age]

By your definition of "belief", I have only one belief, and not the above.

What do you think is my definition of the word 'belief'?

And what is that only one belief that you have, in the definition of the word 'belief' that you think I have?

Nor did I use the word "human" in the sense you think I used it.

So in what sense did you use the word 'human'?

And, in what sense do you think I thought you used the word 'human'?

Ask the universe

So, ONCE AGAIN, you make CLAIMS but are ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY incapable of clarifying or substantiating your OWN claims.

You can NOT even tell us what your OWN only one belief is.

I KNEW you could NOT tell us what MY definition of 'belief' IS, nor in what sense I thought you used the word 'human', BUT you not even being unable to clarify what your OWN one and only belief is, is just beyond the absurd and ridiculous.

WHY do you even write and claim the things you do when you can NOT even remotely back up nor clarify in any way what it is that you say?

You can NOT even tell us what sense you use A word.

Being able to READ the REAL 'you', from the words that 'you' use, is such a very simple and easy thing to do.

[surreptitious57]

If you claim that you do not have the mental energy then I want to see if you really know what mental energy IS

Can you explain to me how it is possible to do something when you dont actually want to
Why do you think an internal state is something that for you needs to be clarified anyway

[Age]

...

Do you hear voices btw, if yes how many?

Just more attempts at deflecting. Are you TRYING TO move on from your complete inability to elaborate on and/or justify what you claim is true?

Yes I hear voices. Do you hear voices? Or are you completely deaf?

You said your readers are telling you things within minutes.

If I recall correctly I NEVER said "my readers".

If you WANT to understand what I say, or even TRY TO refute what I say, then you HAVE TO read the actual words that I USE.

[surreptitious57]

What do you think my definition of the word belief is

I do not know what your definition of belief is unless you actually say what it is
So for clarification will you say what it is or else why bother asking the question

[Skepdick]

The 'you' does NOT become OPEN initially as 'you' WERE OPEN, "in the beginning".

No, I wasn't. I thought I was OPEN, but then I realised I was CLOSED. I couldn't tell the difference.

A better question to ask is; When did the 'you' become CLOSED, and/or, When did you become OPEN, AGAIN?

I was born CLOSED, I became OPEN when I rejected the idea of Truth.

Maybe not if you do not tell us. But I can easily tell if you are OPEN or not.

You can't though. You can't even tell that you are CLOSED.

But you could not possibly KNOW the answer to this question if and when you are still closed.

Precisely! But I am not CLOSED. I am OPEN.

What I asked you was when you became OPEN.

A human being could 'become OPEN', and closed, many times in their lifetime.

However 'I' am OPEN, ALWAYS.

So then you aren't human? OK.

'i' am OPEN when i am NOT assuming, and NOT believing, that i know what is true, right, and/or correct.

You believe in Truth. So you are CLOSED.

Yes.

So you were closed?

So when did 'you' learn to become OPEN?

Somewhere in my 20s.

What were the lessons, which taught you to become OPEN?

I don't remember.

How exactly did you make your self OPEN?

I stoped being CLOSED.

Are you always OPEN, now?

Yes.

How about you now SHOW how that question does work by explaining what the 'you' was before it became OPEN.

Before I became OPEN, I was CLOSED.

Before I became OPEN, I was the same way you are now - CLOSED.

In fact how about also explaining who and/or what the 'you' IS, exactly. So, that we can SEE if that question of yours does actually work, or not.

I am OPEN.

When, and if, the 'you' discovers or learns who and what the 'you' actually IS and who and what the 'I' actually IS as well, then IF that question works or not will be clearly KNOWN, for sure, anyway.

I've already discovered it. You and I are humans.

[Atla]

Yes I hear voices. Do you hear voices? Or are you completely deaf?

I mean do you hear voices even when there are no other humans nearby?

[surreptitious57]

How exactly did you make your self OPEN

I am not ABSOLUTELY open like you but I am however more open than I have ever been
And this is because I tend to be more detached and therefore rather less dogmatic now

I know very little so there is no point in being dogmatic anyway from my perspective
Since I want to learn as much as possible but that cannot be done with a closed mind

But what about you how did you make yourself open and was that easy
And if it was easy then why cannot other human beings achieve it too

[Age]

It appears to me that you have completely misunderstood misinterpreted or just plain forgotten what I have been saying which is I am here in this forum to learn how to communicate better . Nothing more and nothing less . Therefore my goal here in this forum is NOT to be fully understood

Then why did you claim in the other thread that your reason for being here is to be fully understood

If I did, then a link to that thread and specific post of mine would HELP in SEEING in what context I said 'what is claimed to be what I said'.

However, considering there is NO context in which you are referring to, and I do NOT know which thread to going looking for this 'what is said to have taken place comment', IF I said it, then "The reason for being here, (in this forum?, in Life?, in this thread?) is to be fully understood is SO that I AM FULLY UNDERSTOOD, eventually.

Did I specifically state that the reason for being here is to be fully understood, here in this forum, or here just in Life in general?

See if I did NOT specifically state that I want to be fully understood here in this forum, then I can still say that the reason for being here, (even in this forum), is to be fully understood (somewhere). So it CAN mean that I am here, in this forum, to LEARN HOW to be fully understood, so that in Life, or in outside of this forum life, I can be fully understood.

I have NO intention of ever saying ALL of what it is that I have and want to say here, in this forum, so I will NEVER be FULLY understood here, in this forum. Unless of course some one proves me wrong.

I am here, in this forum, to just learn how to, eventually, be better and be fully understood.

I am here, in this forum, to learn how to communicate better so that one day outside of the forum I can be FULLY understood.

Also, if I have not communicated properly and so I am being misunderstood/misinterpreted, then it is great that you are pointing this out now. This is what I ask for and need, in order to learn how to communicate better.

The very same day you said this you now say your reason for being here is not to be fully understood

Again a link provided, which SHOWS exactly what I did say AND in what context I said it and/or meant would HELP me to discuss this further, and communicate it better.

So can you now state very clearly and very precisely which one it is since it obviously cannot be both

Will you provide a link directly to what it is that you say I said?

If yes, then I will now state very clearly and very precisely what it is.

I could have just meant that I am not here, in this forum, to explain EVERY thing so that I am fully understood here in this forum. Meaning that I am not here, in this forum, to be fully understood. But rather I am just here, in this forum, to learn how to become fully understood, somewhere, someday.

You ARE communicating better but you are still here so then why is this

Because I have still have a LOT MORE to learn.

And 'better' is a very relativistic word.

I NEVER meant I want to learn how to communicate 'better' here, in this forum, and then leave IF I just become ANY 'better'. I meant when, and if, I become 'better' enough, in my terms, then I would leave.

Is is because you think you can communicate better than you already are

NO. This appears to be a strange thing to think and ask me. It is the very opposite. I want to learn how to communicate much better than I am now.

It is OBVIOUS that I am not yet a good communicator, and that I have a lot more to learn in how to communicate better. Why would you pose the exact opposite in your question to me?

You can also communicate better AND be fully understood at the same time so if you do not want to
be fully understood [ why not ] then you will not be able to communicate as well as you would like to

There are some things I can communicate and be fully understood, but these are just the usual things that most people know and accept already anyway. Being able to be fully understood in regards to things that people believe are impossible, do not believe at all, or just accept as not at all being true is WHAT, and WHY, I am here in this forum and want to learn how to communicate better.

'i' do have a huge self defeating tendency and a huge give up/submissive attitude, which i have to overcome as well.

It is also NOT that I do not want to be fully understood here, in this forum, it is that what I have and want to say is just to much for a forum format.

Why cannot you get everyone here to become more open instead of leaving the forum as soon as you can communicate to a certain standard

Because just like I do not like to tell and explain 'what IS' and WHY 'ALL things are the way they ARE', as I would like people to find and discover these things by themselves, I also do not like to tell people what to do. I can NOT make any one do any thing that they, themselves, do not want to do. I would NEVER force any one to do any thing that they do not voluntarily 100% want to do them self nor would I tell any one WHAT they have to think and do also.

I would NOT get any one here to become more open if that is NOT what they Truly wanted anyway.

I am just here, in this forum, learning how to explain one way of becoming truly and fully OPEN. I want to learn a way to explain it so that it has come from one's own Self directly, that is; thee 'I', Itself, and NOT from me directly, so that then they will want to remain OPEN and with voluntary enthusiasm, and not because they feel like they have been told to nor told that it is the right thing to do.

I would like EVERY one to only do what they themselves KNOW and FEEL is the right thing, to do, for them selves. I would like them to do this all by their own self

How is anyone going to learn from you and become a better human being if you leave the forum when ever you want to never to return again

But I do not necessarily want any one to learn, from me. I would just like people to become more curious them selves and try some new things, and then if they feel that it is good and right for them, then they just want to continue doing it with and from their OWN voluntary enthusiasm.

I NEVER want any person to feel like that they are having to do any thing in Life that they, themselves, truly do not like nor want to be doing.

One also only becomes a 'better human being' IF that is what they Truly want to become. No one can help 'you' if you do not want to help 'your' own 'self'. IF any one Truly wants some thing, then they can and will achieve it for, and by, them self anyway, (and with more help and support from "others" then the speed of this process is just exponential).

By the way thee 'I' NEVER leaves, and so never returns again, as thee 'I' or True Self ALWAYS remains with(and)in the 'you'. Although it does "appear" as though 'I' may leave and never return again, this is just not true.

Anyhow, I can not learn how to better communicate and explain one way of HOW it is POSSIBLE to live in a Truly peaceful world with EVERY one, forever more, IF I can not find any one who is open enough to even to begin listening, so that I can then practice and learn how to communicate this idea at all.

If, and when, I find any person who Truly wants to just listen to and just consider an idea, AND THEN continually keep questioning and/or challenging me on any thing that appears to be contradictory, wrong, false, incorrect or partly wrong, partly false, and/or partly incorrect, while they keep remaining open enough to keep challenging and questioning me, instead of just dismissing me or deflecting away, then I can and will keep learning how to communicate better.

My goal here, in this forum, is to learn and not necessarily teach. If, however, some thing I say is being taught here, then so be it.

See, most people in a philosophy forum are not necessarily here to listen to and hear "others" ideas and views. More specifically they are here to express, argue, and fight for their own ideas, views, beliefs, et cetera. So, IF I can learn how get past these things and learn how to get a person on a philosophy forum to begin to start to want to even just consider listening to what it is that I want to eventually share one day, then I am learning how to communicate better.

If and when I can get a person open ENOUGH, again, to just want to become as curious and inquisitive again, just like they were when they were young, and when they could learn things very quickly, then I will keep learning how to communicate/share a view that I KNOW can and WILL create a Truly peaceful "world" for EVERY one, as One. If that person who wants to just listen starts SEEING and UNDERSTANDING things by them self, then they WILL start becoming more and more Truly OPEN all by their own Self, and so will REMAIN OPEN to keep listening and seeing, and then will understand HOW the Truth of things WAS and IS being revealed to them ALL OF THE TIME.

By the way your kind of questioning and challenging here now is exactly what I have been asking for and seeking, and truly do enjoy. So, thank you, it is much appreciated.

[Age]

If you claim that you do not have the mental energy then I want to see if you really know what mental energy IS

Can you explain to me how it is possible to do something when you dont actually want to

No.

You can and WILL only do and achieve some thing, and any thing by the way, IF you actually Truly and Really want to do and achieve it.

Why do you think an internal state is something that for you needs to be clarified anyway

But I do NOT think that an internal state is some thing that for me NEEDS to be clarified anyway.

What I was seeking was to see if you knew what 'mental energy' IS, considering you have said a few times that 'you' do not have the 'mental energy' to do some thing.

[Age]

What do you think my definition of the word belief is

I do not know what your definition of belief is unless you actually say what it is

Thank you for SEEING, recognizing, and acknowledging a GREAT point, which you could noticed in the question that I was asking "another" person.

This point that you have just raised, applies to and for ALL people, ALL OF THE TIME, also.

NO person KNOWS what "another's" definition of a word IS, unless they actually say what it is.

Until a person does say what definition they are using, then ALL "others" are Truly doing is just assuming. Thus, the reason for half? of the trouble and confusion in the "world", which human beings cause and create.

So for clarification will you say what it is or else why bother asking the question

I was asking the question to "ANOTHER" person because THEY said: By your definition of "belief",

They were obviously proposing that they ALREADY KNEW what my definition of 'belief' is. I just asked THE clarifying question to SEE IF they actually KNEW it or not. That is WHY I bothered asking THE clarifying question to THEM.

Their response, or their NO response in this case, reveals things.

My definition of 'belief' IS; Whatever it is that is being believed to be true MUST BE true, to them. That is; to the one with the 'belief'.