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Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:00 am
by Arising_uk
See any human primates in chimp labs doing such things?
You've not said if you note any difference between human primates and the rest of the animal world?
What you do keep doing is to try and humanize the other primates, why? If you find us so abominable.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:49 am
by John Kelly
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Don't laugh, someday we'll be in charge.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:53 pm
by chaz wyman
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
...................................................There is a reason this chimp looks so compelling.
OH - Um - Yes - because it is a LOWLAND GORILLA AND NOT A CHIMPANZEE.
What does he compel BTW?
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Why not extend human rights to Apes?
Maybe because no one is even guaranteeing human rights to the vast majority of humans?
It can be argued that some apes are better protected than many humans - sadly even this fact my not be enough to save them into the next century.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:56 pm
by chaz wyman
Kayla wrote:have you actually read anything about chimp behaviour
chimps are evil
if they had human intellect the earth would be a radioactive wasteland by now
Your assertion is self refuting.
Humans are evil. It is the human intellect that has managed to avoid disaster. If chimps had it they would also use it to avoid disaster.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:02 pm
by chaz wyman
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Unfortunately our capacity for evil is unlimited by our intelligence.
Savages...
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Apes haven't quite worked out how to do this yet.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:13 pm
by chaz wyman
Arising_uk wrote:What do you think that means Bill?
As we share 35% with algae, 40% odd with bananas and given that pretty much all life is DNA based its no surprise that the primate family has a close percentage.
Did you know, although its obvious if you think about it, that we are only 99.5% alike ourselves and that includes twins. More interestingly Edelman pointed out that the way we are built means that we don't even have the same wiring. Every single human is built uniquely.
You talk to me about my view of the world and hint that I have a negative view but all I hear from this thread is gloom and doom about what it is to be human. You forget, music, love, art, poetry, literature, dance, the sciences, engineering, medicine, film, architecture, agriculture, et al.
Most of what you describe is economics. Try treating humans better and I think we'll find the animals will get what they deserve. Until then your emotive pleas will fall upon deaf ears, especially since you sit in a position of wealth and more ironically since its your culture who has sold the 'dream' and the rest of the world has brought it. And please don't say that unionism will solve this as you work for capital and profit, just like those poachers and hunters.
These %age figures are urban myths - like the one that we only use 10% of our brains.
If true it would mean that the essential differences between us and the apes would have to be encoded with a mere 3000 genes or so. This is completely ridiculous.
Given you number the difference between human individuals would be expressed with only 1600 genes. If you pause for a moment this cannot account for the billions of unique individuals on the planet.
Indeed there are so few genes (c 35000) in the human genome that none of this can account for the variation.
Genetics and the understand ing of the role of the genome is in its infancy. The discovery that there were so few genes was a massive shock to the world of genetics - one they were not very keen to publicise..
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:51 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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Thank you Chaz for posting upon this thread.
You, as usual, have added information AND valuable insight.
You are correct in identifying the lowland gorilla instead of a chimp.
And I like your straight-talk of the urban myth thingy.
Hope all is well...
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Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:29 pm
by chaz wyman
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Thank you Chaz for posting upon this thread.
You, as usual, have added information AND valuable insight.
You are correct in identifying the lowland gorilla instead of a chimp.
And I like your straight-talk of the urban myth thingy.
Hope all is well...
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Cheers Bill - all good. Hope you have a good new year.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:57 pm
by Arising_uk
chaz wyman wrote:These %age figures are urban myths - like the one that we only use 10% of our brains ...
Okay guilty but I was hoping to make Bill understand that his comparisons were worthless even on his own misunderstanding.
I too dislike the "10% of our brains" myth, even when the users alter it to say they meant only 10% is used to run the 'mind'. Having done a little study in AI I think people have no idea how complicated a process just moving about in the world is, let alone walking and chewing gum.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:59 pm
by Arising_uk
Bill Wiltrack wrote:.Thank you Chaz for posting upon this thread. You, as usual, have added information AND valuable insight. You are correct in identifying the lowland gorilla instead of a chimp. And I like your straight-talk of the urban myth thingy. ...
But will you actually take any notice and change your thoughts about such things?
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:42 pm
by chaz wyman
Arising_uk wrote:chaz wyman wrote:These %age figures are urban myths - like the one that we only use 10% of our brains ...
Okay guilty but I was hoping to make Bill understand that his comparisons were worthless even on his own misunderstanding.
I too dislike the "10% of our brains" myth, even when the users alter it to say they meant only 10% is used to run the 'mind'. Having done a little study in AI I think people have no idea how complicated a process just moving about in the world is, let alone walking and chewing gum.
Did you catch the Royal Institution Xmas Science lectures for children this year?
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:03 am
by Wootah
Thundril wrote:There is serious consideration being given,here in the uk, to giving chimps something like human rights, but this is only happening, AFAIK, in some moral-philosophy think tanks. Still it's a start.
The death of rational thought started a long time ago.
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:19 am
by Wootah
Arising_uk wrote:Bill Wiltrack wrote:.Thank you Chaz for posting upon this thread. You, as usual, have added information AND valuable insight. You are correct in identifying the lowland gorilla instead of a chimp. And I like your straight-talk of the urban myth thingy. ...
But will you actually take any notice and change your thoughts about such things?
I doubt that made Bill's list of new year's resolutions ....
Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:07 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Personhood to Apes BEFORE Corporations!
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:26 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
