Philosophy Now Forum

It's a complicated relationship.
not really: I'm a filthy addict caught by the twin devils, caffeine & nicotine

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:46 am It's a complicated relationship.
not really: I'm a filthy addict caught by the twin devils, caffeine & nicotine

But 'the devil' is the one SPEAKING and SAYING, "I'm a filthy addict".

This is what 'the devil' WANTS 'you' to LISTEN TO and BELIEVE is true.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:28 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:46 am It's a complicated relationship.
not really: I'm a filthy addict caught by the twin devils, caffeine & nicotine

But 'the devil' is the one SPEAKING and SAYING, "I'm a filthy addict".

This is what 'the devil' WANTS 'you' to LISTEN TO and BELIEVE is true.

My horns and hooves are well-polished.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:28 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:46 am It's a complicated relationship.
not really: I'm a filthy addict caught by the twin devils, caffeine & nicotine

But 'the devil' is the one SPEAKING and SAYING, "I'm a filthy addict".

This is what 'the devil' WANTS 'you' to LISTEN TO and BELIEVE is true.

My horns and hooves are well-polished.

Who and/or what, EXACTLY does the 'My' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:28 pm

But 'the devil' is the one SPEAKING and SAYING, "I'm a filthy addict".

This is what 'the devil' WANTS 'you' to LISTEN TO and BELIEVE is true.

My horns and hooves are well-polished.

Who and/or what, EXACTLY does the 'My' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Complications: The smoke is a necessary ally for co-creating a self-protecting third entity that is neither the smoker nor the smoke, thus making the smoker a mobile vector for the smoke and the third entity a smoke agent.

Rabbit hole complications:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MHDObiSplA

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:28 pm

But 'the devil' is the one SPEAKING and SAYING, "I'm a filthy addict".

This is what 'the devil' WANTS 'you' to LISTEN TO and BELIEVE is true.

My horns and hooves are well-polished.

Who and/or what, EXACTLY does the 'My' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Who do you think I'm referrin' to, age?

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:45 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm

My horns and hooves are well-polished.

Who and/or what, EXACTLY does the 'My' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Complications: The smoke is a necessary ally for co-creating a self-protecting third entity that is neither the smoker nor the smoke, thus making the smoker a mobile vector for the smoke and the third entity a smoke agent.

I KNOW.

But ALL of these 'things' can be put INTO WORDS, which, by the way, ALL of make PERFECT and IRREFUTABLE SENSE.

That is; IF ANY one is Truly INTERESTED in LEARNING or KNOWING HOW.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:45 pm Rabbit hole complications:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MHDObiSplA

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:15 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm

My horns and hooves are well-polished.

Who and/or what, EXACTLY does the 'My' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Who do you think I'm referrin' to, age?

If 'you' do NOT YET KNOW, then it is NOT REALLY up to 'me' to TELL and INFORM 'you'. However, since 'you' asked, the 'INNER voice', which says things that are False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, like in your above example, is 'you' TELLING, or at least 'trying to' TRICK 'you', into BELIEVING 'things' which are NOT True.

See, just because 'that body' got a 'buzz' from nicotine and/or tobacco, and which 'that body' has become accustomed to 'enjoying' the 'feeling' that 'the body' got from the intake of those 'things', 'the body', itself, is NOT actually 'addicted' to 'them' as 'the body' REALLY does NOT 'need' 'them' AT ALL.

Now, because there is a 'sensation' of WANTING MORE of those 'things', this 'sensation' was 'information', sent to the brain, through the senses of 'the body', and this 'information' gets turned in the knowledge of, 'I want MORE (of those things, whatever they may be. But in your circumstances "henry quirk" they are) nicotine and caffeine".

This knowledge, when replaced with the thought, "I am ADDICTED to nicotine and caffeine", increases the WANT, MORE. And, WHEN the 'thought' is replaced with and by A BELIEF, then the WANT of MORE INCREASES, exponentially.

Now, BEFORE I babble on EXPLAINING MORE and MORE, because of what the word 'you' means, or refers to, EXACTLY. who I THINK 'you' were referring to "henry quirk", was just 'you', which is just 'the thoughts' and 'the emotional feelings', WITHIN 'that body'. Now, there IS 'the good/the God' AND 'the bad/the devil' BOTH EXISTING within human bodies. 'The good' just refers to 'that', which is KNOWN, and IN AGREEMENT and ACCEPTANCE with and by EVERY one, and, 'the bad' just refers to those Wrong, or bad, thoughts, which exist within EVERY human body.

'Bad thoughts' like, for example, "I am ADDICTED to nicotine and caffeine, and to obtain MORE nicotine and caffeine I NEED to obtain MORE money", which is what DRIVES human beings to doing what is Wrong, and or bad, in Life. This is 'the work' of 'the devil' as described in some books. But 'thinking' or 'thoughts' are, literally, NOT KNOWING. 'you', literally, ONLY 'think', and 'thinking' the above, which is what DRIVES 'the body' to do what it takes to GET what 'you', Incorrectly, BELIEVE 'the body' NEEDS is 'the devil or wrong part' of 'you'. There is the OTHER part of 'you', which when DELVED into and LOOKED AT, REVEALS are FAR MORE DEEPER and MEANINGFUL part of life, and living, itself.

So, who I THINK 'you' were referring to was just that 'bad' or 'devil' part of 'you', which comes out SOMETIMES.

If ANY one is INTERESTED, there are parts here. There is 'you', the thoughts and thinking part of the human being, (which includes the 'emotions' also, but which will be ignored for now), and then there is 'the Mind', which will also be ignored for now.

'you', the, invisible 'thoughts' exist SOLELY because of what 'the body' has previously experienced. Now, because ALL adult aged human bodies have experienced BOTH 'good' AND 'bad' things in Life, there is also now exists, within ALL of those bodies 'good' AND 'bad' thoughts. 'Good', here, just refers to 'that', which is True, Right, and/or Correct here, and, 'bad', here, just refers to 'that', which is False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, in Life.

For example, in 'that body', which the words and writings under the label "henry quirk" here come from, there is the (bad) False, Wrong, and Incorrect 'thought' of; "I am ADDICTED to nicotine and caffeine". But, what also exists within that body is the (good) True, Right, and Correct 'thought' of; "I love my child and want to do all I can to protect them".

So, within EACH and EVERY (adult aged) human body there exists 'you', a 'person' who is BOTH 'good' AND 'bad', and this goes for absolutely EVERY adult human being.

Who, and what, 'you' ARE, EXACTLY, are the 'thoughts' AND 'emotional feelings' WITHIN A human body. ALL 'thoughts' AND 'emotions' come from PAST EXPERIENCES, and, ALL BEHAVIORS, good or bad, come from 'thoughts (and emotions)', themselves.

Who, and what, I think, SAID and WROTE, "My horns and hooves are well-polished", was just that part of 'you' who is the (bad) False, Wrong, Incorrect, and also attempting to DECEIVE 'thoughts', which is just what the word 'devil' means, or refers to, EXACTLY.

For ANY or ALL other CLARIFICATION ALL questions/challenges are ACCEPTED, and even SOUGHT OUT and DESIRED.

roydop wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:07 pm I literally need to process 11 cords of wood to heat my 6000 sq foot house each winter.

Love it! Great practice and keeps me in shape.

As opposed to fuguratively? Fascinating.

roydop wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:38 am If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

You are describing the essence of the subject. No "objectiveness" is possible in this experiment.
Clearly you do no understand the distinction between the two ideas.

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

Chopping wood is a good idea.

My personal solution is to switch from one hemisphere to the other one, from the emotional one to the analytical one.
I don´t mean analyzing some annoying situation because that implies that emotional expressions come to your mind anyway.

Either one formulates the situation with whole sentences, in some language one is not quite fluent in, like when trying to make a good impression on a listening friend or therapist. The mental effort of formulating the sentences takes place in the left hemisphere.

Or one solves some logical puzzles like kakuro or Symbolrätsel (a calculation with numbers replaced by letters), where you have to figure out which letter stands for which number. While working on it the emotional part of the brain, the right one, calms down.

duszek wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:42 pm My personal solution is to switch from one hemisphere to the other one, from the emotional one to the analytical one.

You scared me for a moment there. I thought I was going to have to move to Australia.

roydop wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:38 am If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness .

This might be true for most people, but I am given to understand that some people do not think in words.

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random .

Whilst the "you" might have no direct control of the thoughts bubbling up from the subconscious it is a complete failing of common sense and a misunderstanding of psychology to suggest such thoughts are random, far from it. Such examples where such thought might be considered random would be indicative of severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia, where the thoughts can be far removed from the normal boundaries of mental health - though not actually random.

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

No one is objective or ego free.

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind.

But we can and do direct the thoughts through reflection.

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

I hope this is not a true reflection of your own mental processes, as, though it is true that thought are continually generated as you say, most of us realise they are not "random", and that upon reflection we can marshal and direct at least the subject of the thoughts.
Although we are susceptible of thought chains, and wandering thoughts which can interrupt things we would rather be doing, these things can be controlled to a point.

"Whilst the "you" might have no direct control of the thoughts bubbling up from the subconscious it is a complete failing of common sense and a misunderstanding of psychology to suggest such thoughts are random, far from it. Such examples where such thought might be considered random would be indicative of severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia"

Did you participate in the experiment? While attempting to stop the voice in your head, you will find that that voice just pops up at random intervals, saying random shit. The only complete failing going on is your inability to recognize what is occurring within your own consciousness.

roydop wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:58 pm "Whilst the "you" might have no direct control of the thoughts bubbling up from the subconscious it is a complete failing of common sense and a misunderstanding of psychology to suggest such thoughts are random, far from it. Such examples where such thought might be considered random would be indicative of severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia"

One of the reasons it seems like one does not have direct control of thoughts (and feelings and images and voices) that arise is because we have been trained to disidentify and suppress parts of ourselves. Guilt, trauma, shaming, cultural and familial pressures and more lead us to split off into parts. But these parts of one keep on going. They are you, but the part of you looking/feeling/seeing/hearing them has disidentified with those parts and they seem separate. They seem to run on their own. The Eastern-ish approach is to disidentify even further. Just observe, encourage silence (blankness) wordlessness. Banish the parts from the available media. Tell yourself you are not even the poor little left over observer who seems to be infiltrated by these intrusions.
Or...
one can reallow the parts to be a part of the self. Allow emotions to be expressed, rather then suppressed or merely observed. Allow the thoughts to be the tips of icebergs of whole pieces of the self that have been semi-banished or, those in dreams, perhaps banished entirely. Extending is a floppy way the iceberg metaphor, imagine an enormous iceberg which has dozens of peaks. One peak may think it is looking at other things, but under the water, deep down those other icebergs are part of the same iceberg. So, you can choose to reallow expression, even of the bad parts and the ones that confuse you.