Experiment to show your state of delusion

[roydop]

If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

[Gary Childress]

If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

Interesting. Are you saying that you have absolute control over your mind where others do not?

[Walker]

Interesting. Are you saying that you have absolute control over your mind where others do not?

What he's saying is, teaching meditation to resistance*, either online or offline, is an exercise in futility.


* Resistance defined as teaching and explaining meditation on a philosophy forum, where the philosophical objective is to falsify a presentation, rather than be an echo of some dead philosophy theoretician, who were most often white guys (which should spark the interest of any caught up in the current racism herd) ... which makes method and technique inappropriate for the conditions, and situation.

[Walker]

To be in the presence of a saint, of the caliber of Sri Ramana Maharshi, will teach you what meditation teaches you.

The world travels to be in the presence of such saints, and the mere presence of such saints in daily life, purifies. Such saints do not go to the world, the world travels to them.

Once he parked it on Arunachala, Sri Ramana Maharshi stayed. The world came and built an ashram around him, and they put a bed in the hallway for him, which was nice.

Never loan money to a saint. It must be a gift!
(Look at all the saints Brandon is creating with his student-loan-forgiveness burst of campaign brilliance *. )


* A fine example of loopy logic.

[Dimebag]

If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

I am glad for you.

I hope for your sake it stays pristine and delusion free, though from my experience, the delusion can set back in, but, you can at the same time be aware of that delusion, a strange state of affairs.

How long has this delusion free state been with you now?

[Harbal]

If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

Why would one assume this? Most of us assume that we have a limited control over bodily movement and menatal activity. I can cease any deliberate movement of my body, but I can't do much to control my heart beat, or what is happening in my stomach. I can't stop thoughts going through my mind, but I can exert some influence over what thoughts I have.

Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

Of course you have a choice. True, you can't prevent unwelcome thoughts, but you do have some control over how you deal with them. And far from all thoughts are random, many are deliberate.

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

That's a stupid analogy, if you don't mind my saying. The consequences of not being able to apply the brakes of a car are obvious, but what are the consequences of not being able to stop thinking?

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

Your conclusion that people are in a state of delusion has not been arrived at through any logical process that I can discern.

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

What, and be like you? I think not, Roy.

[henry quirk]

You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

Embedded in this is the idea that it's better to not-think. I suppose if you're one of them obsessive types, squelchin' crazy thoughts might be nice, but most folks, most of the time, aren't at war with their own heads. There's no reason to stop thinkin' or end the inner monologue, nor is it natural.

Instead, you wanna redirect thinkin'. Them obsessive types are drawn inward and get caught in their own web. Obviously if you live in the city what I'm about to suggest may not be feasible...

Chop wood. Get your ax and chop wood. It won't take long. All that inward circlin' turns outward. You think (always a good thing) but you think about what's in front on you, about the the task. As soon as you break a sweat your head is clear, not of thinkin' but of debris.

You can call it working meditation, and it's better, by a mile, than sittin' in a chair pretendin' to be a potted plant.
and you can fuel your fireplace to boot

[roydop]

The only way to prove or disprove this theory is to ENGAGE IN THE PRACTICE

Depending upon your karmic momentum (your state of delusion) it may take years, even decades of dedicated practice (simply shifting attention away from thoughts and into the space between thoughts). This is the singular purpose of Life. It's a Divine game. This is the only thing to do. The rest is Maya beating you at the game.

I tell you this and then the mind speaks into your consciousness and convinces you to re-engage in thought, asking questions and trying to refute the message. 'Round 'round you go...

I will not engage in discussion in regards to my theory anymore. It has all been succinctly and simply laid out for you.

[henry quirk]

The only way to prove or disprove this theory is to ENGAGE IN THE PRACTICE

Yes, the only way you'll know if choppin' wood works is to chop wood.

And: it won't take years, even decades of dedicated practice. You'll know in 15 minutes if heftin' an ax and choppin' wood works.

I will not engage in discussion in regards to my theory anymore

Good. Now we can talk about sumthin' sensible, like choppin' wood.

[roydop]

I literally need to process 11 cords of wood to heat my 6000 sq foot house each winter.

Love it! Great practice and keeps me in shape.

[Harbal]

Love it! Great practice and keeps me in shape.

I think you might have slightly overdone it.

[Impenitent]

11 cords requires a sharp axe...

-Imp

[commonsense]

If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

Yes, an incompletely controlled mind is not a controlled mind. But I would not consider this to be the source of all my problems.

[commonsense]

roydop, in this thought experiment are you delusion free or do you accept that you are deluded? Or are you of the delusional belief that you are not deluded?

[Iwannaplato]

Roy's goal seems to be control. And one part of him treats the rest of him like a car. A machine, a tool.
He's certainly not expressing anything new. It's not some weird toxic belief. And it's been around for a long time. One part of the self judging the other parts and deciding to take control and suppress the rest. The internal autocrat, proud of his control. Oh, but it's not ego.

It's natural for him to help others, he says.

It has also been natural for him to condescend, to be impatient, to tell people to shut up, to brag (even more on Twitter), to be rude and ungrateful to the one person who believed in him, to dismiss questions about assertions he makes and more.

The ego has been expanded by meditation.

Into this supposedly selfless narcissism.