Philosophy Now Forum

Greatest I am wrote:China especially seems on the right track.

Like everywhere, they have good and bad. They desperately need to sort out their energy situation because there's the pollution and living conditions is unsustainable and seemingly barely tolerable, even to stoical Asiatics. Also, there's been considerable reliance on intellectual property theft from the US, especially in the arts, that is not sustainable.

Further, China's political censorship or draconian treatment of "dissidents" for simply making valid criticisms is not something we would want to import. Nor the culture's almost complete lack of consideration for the plight of the vulnerable - the poor and animals. You either make the grade or you are fodder. Not my kind of society.

There is much that China can teach the west and vice versa. To some extent it's inevitable that nations become more like Asia, because certain population densities produce certain results (more high rise, smaller living areas, fewer and smaller gardens, high competition, high stakes etc) along with influence from the migration of millions of Asians looking for a more hospitable place to live.

The difference in China is that it is a society which acknowledges its problems and then sets long-term strategies in place to address them. They've still got a hell of a long way to go but look how far they've come in a generation. By comparison many western countries are openly hostile to the idea of changing the way we've always done things, even when it's blindly obvious that the way we've always done some things is a way which no longer works.

It should be said that if we had their pollution problems we'd be doing the same, and probably vice versa. It must be smelly, uncomfortable and dangerous to live in Asia's pollution hotspots. Not sure what India will do; they're flat out trying to hold the place together with gaffa tape.

There is no need for a New World Order. The New World Order is already here, established after WWII, and has been steadily growing ever since. Islamist hate this order because it was imposed by modern, progressive thinkers. The New World Order is call Globalization. The Islamists are isolationists by nature and culture, which is incompatible with globalization.

A World Caliphate is not sustainable because it isn't modern or progressive. A sustainable Civilization needs to be progressive, open, free to think, experiment and exchange ideas. Islamists want to kill all that. But they are on the losing end since Civilization is determined to continue, to be open and free. There is no room for Caliphates because they are self-destructive, due to the fact that they have a very narrow view of human existence.

A Caliph would never explore outer space, where humanity has a chance for continuance.

Obvious Leo wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: We all know what a Western type government

I don't know of any two which are the same. Which particular model of government are you suggesting?

Greatest I am wrote: most have a good idea what a Caliphate would look like as well.

Bullshit. Nobody's got a fucking clue, least of all those who are seeking to install such a system.

Ok. Don't bother thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txukr5z ... r_embedded

Regards
DL

Arising_uk wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Yet the E.U. nations are giving up theirs to their larger coalition. ...

No they're not, they are still nations fighting their corners, it's half the problem but from the looks of it there is about to be a big step back from further integration, at least amongst the Euro club, once the 'people' realise that the plan is to give their accounts over to the Bundesbank.

That is the trend and it will eventually culminate in a one world government.

And yet it is a faltering project?

People are getting fed up with the corruption of so many and will opt for the corrupted few. L

They appear to be voting for their own corrupted and not the corrupted of other nations? As the right-wing nationalist is back in force in many European countries and getting louder. In the rest of the world 'people' can essentially go fuck themselves as they have no say or power, it's why the fundies are getting a hearing.

Islam is presently forcing people to move to the right out of fear.

When those problems get sorted out and Islam is brought to heel, things will begin to progress again.

Regards
DL

Arising_uk wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Who knows if we might find a non-corrupted leader.

Apparently this is what the Caliph is meant to be.

We have 0 representation now so going to 0 is to be exactly the same.

Not sure where you live but here in the UK why have some representation. The main problem appears to be that people can't be bothered to vote.

I see it as having just one set of corrupt politicians than the what, 300 set of corrupt politicians we now have.

Again, not sure where you live but I think this a very bad message to promote, by-and-large our MP's are not corrupt.

So again, what do you have against a world government?

Nothing apart from the fact that you are giving no idea what it is supposed to be?

Strange that the U.K. is so wise when judging others yet is blind to it's own position.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

All countries are owned and run by their oligarchs.

Corruption at the political level is what many countries are fighting but go ahead and think your politicians are not like most of the others.

Proof of the corruption of most systems is shown in this graph which is almost the same for all nations and the hole world.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-ame ... ing-fact-2

Regards
DL

Greta wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:China especially seems on the right track.

Like everywhere, they have good and bad. They desperately need to sort out their energy situation because there's the pollution and living conditions is unsustainable and seemingly barely tolerable, even to stoical Asiatics. Also, there's been considerable reliance on intellectual property theft from the US, especially in the arts, that is not sustainable.

Further, China's political censorship or draconian treatment of "dissidents" for simply making valid criticisms is not something we would want to import. Nor the culture's almost complete lack of consideration for the plight of the vulnerable - the poor and animals. You either make the grade or you are fodder. Not my kind of society.

There is much that China can teach the west and vice versa. To some extent it's inevitable that nations become more like Asia, because certain population densities produce certain results (more high rise, smaller living areas, fewer and smaller gardens, high competition, high stakes etc) along with influence from the migration of millions of Asians looking for a more hospitable place to live.

I agree with most of this and think we will end in some kind of open and transparent system based on both the socialist type Chinese system and the more democratic system in the West. The West will have to stop using the stupid word freedom and instead use the more intelligent word of liberty.

Freedom, for humans, cannot exist. Liberty can.

Regards
DL

spike wrote:There is no need for a New World Order. The New World Order is already here, established after WWII, and has been steadily growing ever since. Islamist hate this order because it was imposed by modern, progressive thinkers. The New World Order is call Globalization. The Islamists are isolationists by nature and culture, which is incompatible with globalization.

A World Caliphate is not sustainable because it isn't modern or progressive. A sustainable Civilization needs to be progressive, open, free to think, experiment and exchange ideas. Islamists want to kill all that. But they are on the losing end since Civilization is determined to continue, to be open and free. There is no room for Caliphates because they are self-destructive, due to the fact that they have a very narrow view of human existence.

A Caliph would never explore outer space, where humanity has a chance for continuance.

Not much to argue here but I do not see any system, Caliphate or not, as not being able to expand to a global system.

Look at any system, political or religious and note that any of them would become universal and expand to take the whole world if all other opposes somehow disappeared.

IOW. All system are scalable.

Regards
DL

The worst part about Caliphate rule is that it is xenophobic and treats women as second class or less. That kind of governance doesn't have a future.

spike wrote:The worst part about Caliphate rule is that it is xenophobic and treats women as second class or less. That kind of governance doesn't have a future.

I hope you are right but if you listen to all the heat Trump gets for saying just that, in his own way of course, you might wonder, --- as all the political correct idiots stand for Islam.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:Strange that the U.K. is so wise when judging others yet is blind to it's own position. ...

Not one thing in your links about the U.K.?

All countries are owned and run by their oligarchs.

No they aren't, they might have a lot of influence but in the UK the politicians and political system can still make the difference.

Corruption at the political level is what many countries are fighting but go ahead and think your politicians are not like most of the others.

Tell me what you mean by corruption? As I do think our politicians are in the main not like others countries and that what they are fighting for is for a system pretty much like ours. I think this idea that all politicians are corrupt is a corrosive one when applied to the UK and causes people to lose even more faith in what is ostensibly a fairly sound system that could be turned into what you fear if people start to believe what you say and stop voting.

Proof of the corruption of most systems is shown in this graph which is almost the same for all nations and the hole world.

Your links show nothing about political corruption and appear to be all about America and not the UK.

Greatest I am wrote: I hope you are right but if you listen to all the heat Trump gets for saying just that, in his own way of course, you might wonder, --- as all the political correct idiots stand for Islam.

That's funny as fuck given Trump is playing the xenophobic card and has treated women as lesser than him.

The Australian system of government is not corrupt either. There are a number of powerful lobby groups which have more influence on public policy than is desirable for a democracy but no valid comparison could be made with the completely dysfunctional US system where political power is merely a marketable commodity like any other in a so-called "free" market. It's only free to those why can afford to pay for it.

Arising_uk wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Strange that the U.K. is so wise when judging others yet is blind to it's own position. ...

Not one thing in your links about the U.K.?

All countries are owned and run by their oligarchs.

No they aren't, they might have a lot of influence but in the UK the politicians and political system can still make the difference.

Corruption at the political level is what many countries are fighting but go ahead and think your politicians are not like most of the others.

Tell me what you mean by corruption? As I do think our politicians are in the main not like others countries and that what they are fighting for is for a system pretty much like ours. I think this idea that all politicians are corrupt is a corrosive one when applied to the UK and causes people to lose even more faith in what is ostensibly a fairly sound system that could be turned into what you fear if people start to believe what you say and stop voting.

Proof of the corruption of most systems is shown in this graph which is almost the same for all nations and the hole world.

Your links show nothing about political corruption and appear to be all about America and not the UK.

Keep your head in the sand then.

Regards
DL