Instinct and reason?

For all things philosophical.

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thedoc
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by thedoc »

Blaggard wrote: Not at all you go look back at the last 5 threads I posted and look at them being wanked over by idiots.
I don't come on line to be patronised talked down to, or talked around by fucktards. since that is all that is happening now. Why stay?

What I don't understand is why you are so fixated by those who shit on your threads, instead of looking at and responding to those who do try to make some contribution. If you want to have some kind of dialogue on this, I'm here, otherwise it's been fun watching you fight with those not worth fighting with. I suppose I really don't understand why you are here.
Blaggard
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by Blaggard »

Well all I can say is I am glad you had some fun. But there seems to be a never ending supply of them, when you put on on ignore it just becaomes another numb nut who talks shit at you.

In all honesty it's not fun when you have to deal with that, and I don't think I have ever been on a forum where my ignore list had more than 1 or two people at any one time.

So in essence you come to a forumto be interested, to pass the time, not to be talked shit at by a never ending supply of eogoists with a chip on their shoulder. When that happens week in week out to you doc, you tell me how much fun you are having. Because it's all very well poking fun at people who get relentless shit posted at them, day after day, but until it happens to you personally why should I care what you think? You're just adding to the problem by criticising me and not them for their tomfoolery.

I'm genuinely sorry it offends your sensibilities that someone does not want to be talked around, like they are 5. And I am genuinely sorry that it has come to me just going fuck this for a game of marbles and leaving, but shit: fuck this for a game of marbles. ;)

No one will miss me when I am gone I am sure, and they certainly wont care that I am gone, in fact I think that is their position, so they can keep philosophy racially pure for the real weebleists, so it's no loss to you after all. So why even care?

You're just not allowed to talk to the master race, unless you are of the right sort of race on this forum, and it's why no doubt it is such a small one.
thedoc
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by thedoc »

Blaggard wrote:Well all I can say is I am glad you had some fun. But there seems to be a never ending supply of them, when you put on on ignore it just becaomes another numb nut who talks shit at you.

In all honesty it's not fun when you have to deal with that, and I don't think I have ever been on a forum where my ignore list had more than 1 or two people at any one time.

So in essence you come to a forum to be interested, to pass the time, not to be talked shit at by a never ending supply of eogoists with a chip on their shoulder. When that happens week in week out to you doc, you tell me how much fun you are having. Because it's all very well poking fun at people who get relentless shit posted at them, day after day, but until it happens to you personally why should I care what you think? You're just adding to the problem by criticising me and not them for their tomfoolery.

I'm genuinely sorry it offends your sensibilities that someone does not want to be talked around, like they are 5. And I am genuinely sorry that it has come to me just going fuck this for a game of marbles and leaving, but shit: fuck this for a game of marbles. ;)

No one will miss me when I am gone I am sure, and they certainly wont care that I am gone, in fact I think that is their position, so they can keep philosophy racially pure for the real weebleists, so it's no loss to you after all. So why even care?

You're just not allowed to talk to the master race, unless you are of the right sort of race on this forum, and it's why no doubt it is such a small one.

Blag, I am that person on this and another forum that I log onto currently, and have been that person on several before. My ignore list on this forum is about 5 people right now, it makes for quicker reading when I remember to log on. It gets to a point where you just look for those that you can have a conversation with and let the rest go, I don't let them determine when and where I post, and mostly what I post. Granted there are some threads I will avoid because I know what will happen if I post my ideas, I just shrug and walk away. There is always a thread of interest posted by civil people. FYI, I have discovered that on this forum you can't ignore a mod. it's built into the system. I'm certainly not part of the "Master race" just another dumb shit, hanging around the edges looking for another reject to talk to. Care works both ways, and until it does, it doesn't happen. If you are bound to leave, I sincerely wish you well.
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by Blaggard »

You're right doc, you're right. I think you are reasoned. It's not something I find here a lot, which on a philosophy forum is of course kinda perplexing.

Ok well I'll give it a week of listening and learning from people who can make some sense, if it turns out it's just you and VT, well I have nothing to lose that I did not already have. I mean I like bobs posts, aka as Dave and even Bills aka as Dave, although he does seem to talk a lot of shit, he's weird but at least he's not a braggart about it. I like Wandering lands posts, he's one of those conspiracy theorists and he has some funny ideas but at the end of the day, but considering some of the conspiracy theorists I have talked to he's pretty on the ball by comparison, you feel like you are talking to someone who isn't so invested in what they say that, anything anyone else says they can't and wont listen to, like you do with the so called "phillosophers" on here. And there are quite a few others you can have a conversation with (if I didn't mention you don't take it awry), without it turning into, well how many books have you read and just what do you know fest, of a pissing contest and if I launch enough ad hominems at you, I am gonna be right about something at some point.

Well I don't need to digress on those people you probably get the same sort of I am quite mighty you know as I study philoophy and you don't, and when you don't express all the ideas I read in a book in a formualiac way that I can understand it makes me feel nervous. I can only discuss things that are established reason, anything that comes from someone who has learned to reason for themselves terrifies me. To put it in an analogy, the accomplished Swordsman does not fear those who are versed in fencing as much as he does the accomplished warrior that never learnt it, and hence does not conform to the forms he knows in Epee and foil. Such a person is dangerous to the swordsman, he learnt to fight in another way, and his means may well surprise you. Such mediocre minds are of course are easilly terrified by the unknown, they have to know where you learnt your form so they can then tackle your form, being inventive and hence able to think on the fly is not for them. The master knows that capa fera can be countered with Tibult. If anyone says that they are just going to pick up some sand, throw it in your eyes and then kick you in the nuts, well there is no defence against innovation. Not that I am saying I am an accomplished warrior by any means, but meh. ;)

Them other wankers, well you're right who needs to listen to another self righteous pratt, get enough of that from politics. :P

Incidentally this was the answer to that post I said where I'd give a thread title and then you had to work out the topic. I noticed how few people felt comfortable thinking about something and reasoning outside of their comfort zone, and actually being intelligent, for those who did though I salute you. It seems an I may be wrong, you give a "philosopher" a minimum information problem and it terrifies them so much that they can only look at the ground. You might as well ask a mushroom to think as you would these guys to think beyond what they learnt in books and from the bible of "philosophy" aka weeblism. They're not smart at all, they're just repeating the trite language of others they read, it's all they know how to do and indeed can do. To actually for once think about something you don't know the answer to right away and you can't quote scripture at, well that would kill them. ;)

The clues were: the film Pleasantville, the film Gatticca, colour threads in whatever form and obviously the original and a few more no one really read, and probably felt scared them to the extent that they might think for once creatively. Did any of them bother thinking about the clues of course not, they saw the thread and thought nah I wont even go there, being creative is not for me, nah you'd have as much chance of making a brick wall care about who leant on it.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13003
Last edited by Blaggard on Thu May 22, 2014 10:23 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Blaggard wrote:I was thinking about something at some point, and it's no doubt none too clever but meh if you don't flex your arm then you're arm loses it's erm what's the word, agility. So anyway to get to the point and that is that a lot of what people do and the way they behave is somewhat encoded more in their genes than we might imagine. It's well known in science that humans have very few natural instincts that you can cite, ie that they have from birth, and that may well be true. Or is it as I suppose, is the sort of ecoding that goes on to produce instinct more prevalant than we might imagine, and more instinctual than we might like to admit? ( instinct AKA genetic memory, however you might want to dress up how behavioural patterns transcend the generations) is instinct still making us behave in ways that make us do things we may or may not.

For example, it's well known that human beings are very xenophobic, and have been in history, but this is placed down to social struggles, politics, resource struggles and so on, rather than of course territorial issues like there would be in the animal world; animals will defend a territory so as to promote their familial structure over an overlapping animal group who might move in to take over that area. And... I think you can see where this is going, are we really all that lacking in instinct or do we just have a bit of a big ego, and a will to explain things in terms of politics over nature? Because frankly if you look at the way humans behave it seems society is only a thin veneer pasted over animal instinct, and perhaps it might be more relevant to look at the animal kingdom and finally admit we are part of it more than we might like to think?

So are we really sure we are not just an animal with many behaviours we chose to explain away by societal means and put down to those, or are we just an instinctive animal who is making excuses that denote an arrogance, we should not perhaps have?
Nah, it's pretty much all environment.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Blaggard wrote:You're right doc, you're right. I think you are reasoned. It's not something I find here a lot, which on a philosophy forum is of course kinda perplexing.

Ok well I'll give it a week of listening and learning from people who can make some sense, if it turns out it's just you and VT, well I have nothing to lose that I did not already have. I mean I like bobs posts, aka as Dave and even Bills aka as Dave, although he does seem to talk a lot of shit, he's weird but at least he's not a braggart about it. I like Wandering lands posts, he's one of those conspiracy theorists and he has some funny ideas but at the end of the day, but considering some of the conspiracy theorists I have talked to he's pretty on the ball by comparison, you feel like you are talking to someone who isn't so invested in what they say that, anything anyone else says they can't and wont listen to, like you do with the so called "phillosophers" on here. And there are quite a few others you can have a conversation with (if I didn't mention you don't take it awry), without it turning into, well how many books have you read and just what do you know fest, of a pissing contest and if I launch enough ad hominems at you, I am gonna be right about something at some point.

Well I don't need to digress on those people you probably get the same sort of I am quite mighty you know as I study philoophy and you don't, and when you don't express all the ideas I read in a book in a formualiac way that I can understand it makes me feel nervous. I can only discuss things that are established reason, anything that comes from someone who has learned to reason for themselves terrifies me. To put it in an analogy, the accomplished Swordsman does not fear those who are versed in fencing as much as he does the accomplished warrior that never learnt it, and hence does not conform to the forms he knows in Epee and foil. Such a person is dangerous to the swordsman, he learnt to fight in another way, and his means may well surprise you. Such mediocre minds are of course are easilly terrified by the unknown, they have to know where you learnt your form so they can then tackle your form, being inventive and hence able to think on the fly is not for them. The master knows that capa fera can be countered with Tibult. If anyone says that they are just going to pick up some sand, throw it in your eyes and then kick you in the nuts, well there is no defence against innovation. Not that I am saying I am an accomplished warrior by any means, but meh. ;)

Them other wankers, well you're right who needs to listen to another self righteous pratt, get enough of that from politics. :P

Incidentally this was the answer to that post I said where I'd give a thread title and then you had to work out the topic. I noticed how few people felt comfortable thinking about something and reasoning outside of their comfort zone, and actually being intelligent, for those who did though I salute you. It seems an I may be wrong, you give a "philosopher" a minimum information problem and it terrifies them so much that they can only look at the ground. You might as well ask a mushroom to think as you would these guys to think beyond what they learnt in books and from the bible of "philosophy" aka weeblism. They're not smart at all, they're just repeating the trite language of others they read, it's all they know how to do and indeed can do. To actually for once think about something you don't know the answer to right away and you can't quote scripture at, well that would kill them. ;)

The clues were: the film Pleasantville, the film Gatticca, colour threads in whatever form and obviously the original and a few more no one really read, and probably felt scared them to the extent that they might think for once creatively. Did any of them bother thinking about the clues of course not, they saw the thread and thought nah I wont even go there, being creative is not for me, nah you'd have as much chance of making a brick wall care about who leant on it.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13003
I had a feeling it had something to do with the film Pleasantville, but hadn't worked out how.
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by Blaggard »

Well if anyone would have bothered answering the original post beyond doc and wot not, it might of been a little easier.

The fact you didn't get it at all, is no surprise hell no one could of. But hey I think it's cool you thought about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fCMTQXzoXo

The courtroom scene.

In pleasantville you only see colour when you are outside of your comfort zone, when you think like you have never thought before, when you are for once being more than yourself has ever felt or thought. Even the mayor eventually sees in colour despite condemning those who can, when the star asks him what he would like to do to him right now? Even he sees in colour, because he's forced to really think for once. Something too few people seem able to do.

Meh it was a stupid exercise and I wont try it again, it didn't work at all. Chalk it up to a nice try but no cigar. :)
Last edited by Blaggard on Thu May 22, 2014 11:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Blaggard wrote:I was thinking about something at some point, and it's no doubt none too clever but meh if you don't flex your arm then you're arm loses it's erm what's the word, agility. So anyway to get to the point and that is that a lot of what people do and the way they behave is somewhat encoded more in their genes than we might imagine. It's well known in science that humans have very few natural instincts that you can cite, ie that they have from birth, and that may well be true. Or is it as I suppose, is the sort of ecoding that goes on to produce instinct more prevalant than we might imagine, and more instinctual than we might like to admit? ( instinct AKA genetic memory, however you might want to dress up how behavioural patterns transcend the generations) is instinct still making us behave in ways that make us do things we may or may not.

For example, it's well known that human beings are very xenophobic, and have been in history, but this is placed down to social struggles, politics, resource struggles and so on, rather than of course territorial issues like there would be in the animal world; animals will defend a territory so as to promote their familial structure over an overlapping animal group who might move in to take over that area. And... I think you can see where this is going, are we really all that lacking in instinct or do we just have a bit of a big ego, and a will to explain things in terms of politics over nature? Because frankly if you look at the way humans behave it seems society is only a thin veneer pasted over animal instinct, and perhaps it might be more relevant to look at the animal kingdom and finally admit we are part of it more than we might like to think?

So are we really sure we are not just an animal with many behaviours we chose to explain away by societal means and put down to those, or are we just an instinctive animal who is making excuses that denote an arrogance, we should not perhaps have?
Nah, it's pretty much all environment.
If it's 'all environment' then why aren't you a monster like your father sounds?
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Blaggard wrote:I was thinking about something at some point, and it's no doubt none too clever but meh if you don't flex your arm then you're arm loses it's erm what's the word, agility. So anyway to get to the point and that is that a lot of what people do and the way they behave is somewhat encoded more in their genes than we might imagine. It's well known in science that humans have very few natural instincts that you can cite, ie that they have from birth, and that may well be true. Or is it as I suppose, is the sort of ecoding that goes on to produce instinct more prevalant than we might imagine, and more instinctual than we might like to admit? ( instinct AKA genetic memory, however you might want to dress up how behavioural patterns transcend the generations) is instinct still making us behave in ways that make us do things we may or may not.

For example, it's well known that human beings are very xenophobic, and have been in history, but this is placed down to social struggles, politics, resource struggles and so on, rather than of course territorial issues like there would be in the animal world; animals will defend a territory so as to promote their familial structure over an overlapping animal group who might move in to take over that area. And... I think you can see where this is going, are we really all that lacking in instinct or do we just have a bit of a big ego, and a will to explain things in terms of politics over nature? Because frankly if you look at the way humans behave it seems society is only a thin veneer pasted over animal instinct, and perhaps it might be more relevant to look at the animal kingdom and finally admit we are part of it more than we might like to think?

So are we really sure we are not just an animal with many behaviours we chose to explain away by societal means and put down to those, or are we just an instinctive animal who is making excuses that denote an arrogance, we should not perhaps have?
Nah, it's pretty much all environment.
If it's 'all environment' then why aren't you a monster like your father sounds?
Oh I'm affected alright, trust me! In some ways it can be seen as I interact in this forum.

But like I've said in other posts, I see that anywhere along our individual timelines, we are the 'culmination' of our 'unique ever varying' experience, (that of our environment). Where that which is 'unique and ever varying' is not just the type of experience, but also the sequence in which it's realized, it's intensity and other interacting variables. For that matter earthly variables come into play as well.

This makes the ability to forecast how one might react, given a particular experience, largely guesswork. I mean the amount you'd have to know about someone to do so, with 100% accuracy, would be insurmountable, to gather or process.

As with the current understanding in biology, specifically epigenetics, there may be genetic predisposition, but it takes environmental triggers for it to manifest.
thedoc
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by thedoc »

Some people learn from their past, some people are their past, Most are a bit of both.
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

thedoc wrote:Some people learn from their past, some people are their past, Most are a bit of both.
Well I don't know exactly what you're trying to say there doc, but a lot of my understanding of the dynamics involved in my and my fathers relationship, I had not enough knowledge to understand, let alone get past it. Some of the epiphanies surrounding it, came at 52 years old, due to all kinds of time on my hands. As my psychologist said, at four years old, in that instant, my brain was physically changed. I hadn't really thought about what caused the bed wetting, but I was ashamed of it as that's how I was made to feel about it. Then at university, at the age of 36, the professor said that bed wetting was due to fear. And still I had no clue as to the exact object of that fear, until I was 52, then suddenly an epiphany. That it had been that moment when I was 4 and my father had scared me so bad that I suddenly couldn't breath, becoming unconscious, just because I had to go potty. I just never really thought about it, the traumatic experience being blocked out of existence, for so many reasons.
thedoc
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Re: Instinct and reason?

Post by thedoc »

When I had my own children, I realized that I couldn't treat them the way my father treated me. So I encouraged them to try whatever they wanted, within our ability to provide, and sometimes beyond that. A child cannot grow when they are constantly being put down.
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