Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:38 pm
Suppose he didn't die.
There is still a problem.
There is still a problem.
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Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
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There is still a problem.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:39 pm
Whenever there is a Death there is a full investigation. The Cops are usually put on administrative leave. Just because a suspect dies does not mean the Police did anything wrong. That's what the investigation is for. Sometimes the Cops are proved to have done something wrong but in the vast number of cases the Cops were proven to merely be using legal and sanctioned techniques in difficult situations.commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:26 pm There is a problem.
A man in the custody of law enforcement died while law enforcement was applying force to the man.
That’s a problem.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:39 pm
seems to me: that's the result of the problemcommonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:26 pm There is a problem.
A man in the custody of law enforcement died while law enforcement was applying force to the man.
That’s a problem.
is the problem: poor or inadequate training?
is the problem: institutional bigotry?
is the problem: qualified immunity?
I think it's the immunity
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:40 pm
No need to narrate your own behaviour - we can all see.
That which you are deflecting from is the evidence.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:01 pm
Because his brain was deprived of oxygen.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:37 pmOkay. Let's start there.commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:26 pm There is a problem.
A man in the custody of law enforcement died while law enforcement was applying force to the man.
That’s a problem.
WHY did he die?
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:11 pm
Good point.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:39 pmseems to me: that's the result of the problemcommonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:26 pm There is a problem.
A man in the custody of law enforcement died while law enforcement was applying force to the man.
That’s a problem.
is the problem: poor or inadequate training?
is the problem: institutional bigotry?
is the problem: qualified immunity?
I think it's the immunity
I think the problem is immunity of law enforcement officers, and I would add to that the immunity the policy authors have (in general and mebbe in this case) for creating a fucked up policy (in this case they mebbe didn’t include a time limit for how long a neck restraint can be applied).
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:26 pm
What deprived his brain of oxygen? Was he in respiratory arrest, and did he claim not to be able to breathe even before he was knelt on? Did fentanyl have anything to do with it? Was his neck compressed unduly? Was his treatment contrary to procedure for arresting officers? Did he have any pre-existing medical conditions? Did anyone say anything racist? Were the officers involved rookies or vets, and did any of them have a history of unjust treatment of suspects?commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:01 pmBecause his brain was deprived of oxygen.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:37 pmOkay. Let's start there.commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:26 pm There is a problem.
A man in the custody of law enforcement died while law enforcement was applying force to the man.
That’s a problem.
WHY did he die?
These are not idle questions. Each one makes a big difference to what we think "the problem" actually is.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:29 pm
But none of those questions make any difference to the fact that there is a problem. Irrespective of the problem's causes.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:26 pm What deprived his brain of oxygen? Was he in respiratory arrest, and did he claim not to be able to breathe even before he was knelt on? Did fentanyl have anything to do with it? Was his neck compressed unduly? Was his treatment contrary to procedure for arresting officers? Did he have any pre-existing medical conditions? Did anyone say anything racist? Were the officers involved rookies or vets, and did any of them have a history of unjust treatment of suspects?
These are not idle questions. Each one makes a big difference to what we think "the problem" actually is.
And that's why you are problem-solving.
You sure seem to have sided with the "outraged Liberals Race Baiters" without letting us know.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:44 pm
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:45 pm
The problem is that someone died in custody while being restrained. That is a problem no matter what the cause.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:26 pmWhat deprived his brain of oxygen? Was he in respiratory arrest, and did he claim not to be able to breathe even before he was knelt on? Did fentanyl have anything to do with it? Was his neck compressed unduly? Was his treatment contrary to procedure for arresting officers? Did he have any pre-existing medical conditions? Did anyone say anything racist? Were the officers involved rookies or vets, and did any of them have a history of unjust treatment of suspects?
These are not idle questions. Each one makes a big difference to what we think "the problem" actually is.
As such, the problem merits an investigation, as is the custom in law enforcement agencies. That investigation may find answers to the very valid questions you ask.
Those answers may identify the cause(s) for the problem.
As described earlier, the solution(s) to the problem will likely include a review &/or rescinding of immunity for officers &/or their superiors.
I suggest that you read the coroner’s report for the immediate cause of death.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:46 pm
So now you are problem-solving a problem you've "completely lost interest" in?!?
It seems lying comes naturally to you.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:48 pm
I will not disturb you with further replies to your posts. You’re welcome.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:53 pm
Skep, I asked you earlier if the officer followed procedure correctly, do you think just-following-orders would be a successful defense, in your opinion. Just curious.
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:54 pm
Sorry - I missed that.commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:53 pm Skep, I asked you earlier if the officer followed procedure correctly, do you think just-following-orders would be a successful defense, in your opinion. Just curious.
Let me rewind...
Re: Calling All Liberal Race Baiters
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:57 pm
Okay. But for whom is it a problem?commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:45 pm The problem is that someone died in custody while being restrained. That is a problem no matter what the cause.
Is it a problem for fentanyl users? Or criminals? Is it a problem for a society? Is it a police problem? Is it a race problem? Is it a parenting problem, a justice problem, a medical problem... or a choice-making problem?
What kind of problem is it?