Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:39 am

AlexW wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:59 amNow, after telling you this story, I hope you understand better where I am coming from. Yes, pain is unavoidable, suffering is optional, sounds like a pretty dumb thing to say - our history of "suffering pain" seem to be proof against it - yet, once you subtract all thoughts from the pain, the suffering simply vanishes (no matter how intense the pain). Of course, with intense pain happening, its not unlikely that thoughts of suffering will arise, yet, it will diminish and eventually vanish as soon as these thoughts are seen for what they are and caught as soon as they arise.

Thanks for sharing the story that is your experience of pain.

It still doesn't convince me that life is worth the price we pay for it.

I wouldn't want to live my life all over again knowing what I know now, not ever.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:39 am But no one has the choice to be born. We do have the choice not to impose the unborn to this painful life, but for the unborn, there is zero choice or consent. I just don't think we have the right to drag new life into the world knowing what we know about it, just because we say it's ok, just because we think it's worth it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:39 am We have the intelligence to realise that what we have to experience is not a good idea, and that we can stop it any time we like. Once again I have to repeat, it seems we are ok with pain and suffering, we are ok with making more of it, we love our pain and suffering. And to me, that's really really dumb, but then other people might think my opinion is dumb, so having any opinion at all about the experience of what it is to be alive is hopeless.

Also, to say that pain is unavoidable, but suffering is optional, is like saying: eating a strawberry chocolate cupcake is not an enjoyable experience, the enjoyment is purely optional.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:39 am It's irrational, because a cupcake is usually very enjoyable. It's like saying, an orgasm is unavoidable, but the pleasure is optional.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:39 am The point is, people make up all kinds of crap to justify life for sentient creatures is a good idea, when it's plainly gross and extremely crude and the result of mindless dumb forces beyond any things control.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:39 am
The dinosaur era proved this fact. Millions and millions of years of useless carnage. Humanity then showed up a few seconds ago in relation to how long sentient life has been occurring, and as if by magic, suddenly everything is perfect and sweet and worth it. Everything is known, and we've got it all figured out...and yet no one has ever been alive before, but they seem to know truth.

We invented our knowledge, we made up reasons and meaning, and it is this knowledge that seems to be our only saving grace, except for the word extinction, that seems to be the hardest word to understand, it's like the dirty word.. so be it.

.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:40 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:24 pm Oooooooooooooooooh I am scared!

I guess we'll see one day. I know you think not, but what either of us thinks is going to prove a whole lot less important than what's actually true.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:40 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:24 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:27 pm
I claim no arcane knowledge. The Biblical record is sufficient to convince one that Hell is no laughing matter...and that this life decidedly lacks its central characteristics.

For one thing, if you and I were in Hell, we would not be having this discussion.

An out of date fairy story written by semi literate goat herders. Oooooooooooooooooh I am scared!

it never gets old, this story, must have been the greatest story ever told. I think we should stop clinging onto it for dear life and let it have its freedom…poor thing has been flogged to death, and yet still refuses to die.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:40 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:24 pm

An out of date fairy story written by semi literate goat herders. Oooooooooooooooooh I am scared!

it never gets old, this story, must have been the greatest story ever told. I think we should stop clinging onto it for dear life and let it have its freedom…poor thing has been flogged to death, and yet still refuses to die.

I find it really amusing that a person with clear skills in writing as IC, is such a poor judge of the most basic facts of reality.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:35 am

AlexW wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:35 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:59 pm All I want is for the pain, and suffering in the world to stop. Especially the suffering of animals, but how can we make it stop, we can’t can we?

I just want it all to stop.

As I see it, all you can do, is to make the pain stop inside yourself (by understanding who suffers and what causes suffering) - that is good enough.
There is no need to heal the world, only heal yourself.
Its like being in an aeroplane - you are in an emergency - the oxygen masks drop out of the ceiling - you FIRST put a mask on yourself. Once this has been accomplished, then ask the question if the world still needs healing - and if so, how you can work towards this goal without adding further suffering to the world (as all suffering is internal - within thought - also your own internal suffering adds to the suffering of the world)
Also, don't mistake physical pain for suffering: pain is unavoidable, suffering is optional.

What DAM said is like the oxygen mask. The oxygen of pity.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:47 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:23 pm liar

your lunacy

miseries like you.


your garbage

You're a bad person

the equally loony

the equally bad

OK, fair enough, you are entiled to make that judgement of my character, but know that how I am perceived by you there, has no impact on this one here, because only I know the real truth of my character, and *that is my power.

But thanks for the harsh critisism, your displeasures and grievances. Water off a ducks back.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:44 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:47 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:23 pm liar

your lunacy

miseries like you.


your garbage

You're a bad person

the equally loony

the equally bad

OK, fair enough, you are entiled to make that judgement of my character, but know that how I am perceived by you there, has no impact on this one here, because only I know the real truth of my character, and *that is my power.

But thanks for the harsh critisism, your displeasures and grievances. Water off a ducks back.

Wait, I thought folks didn't have any power...

Can't even keep your manure straight.

A bad performance...

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:01 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:44 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:47 am

OK, fair enough, you are entiled to make that judgement of my character, but know that how I am perceived by you there, has no impact on this one here, because only I know the real truth of my character, and *that is my power.

But thanks for the harsh critisism, your displeasures and grievances. Water off a ducks back.

Wait, I thought folks didn't have any power...

Can't even keep your manure straight.

A bad performance...

You are so predictable. And pretty damn dumb never fails to deliver.

*No one has any power, except in this conception, the pretense.

Just keep parroting away to yourself, no one is listening.

**What happened to the ignore list?

Oh yeah, it's not easy to ignore shit is it. you can't get enough of it . . Doh!!

Smell your own shit - shit face.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:08 pm
*The first qualifier...what I meant to say...

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:53 pm My personal philosophical ideas have always been about the pretence (sic) that is human language.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:53 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:08 pm
*The first qualifier...what I meant to say...

I've always said what I meant to say. If you have not been able to interpret my writing style here - then go ahead and override it with your own interpretation as to what was meant, doesn't change what I meant.

*My personal philosophical ideas have always been about the pretence that is human language. Your confusion is yours, not mine. You can deny the fact that knowledge is a pretence or you can see for yourself the pretense. It's your homework, no one is going to give it to you, you have to graft it for yourself.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:12 pm The mind boggles, that perfectly decent, articulate, and gentle men still believe in invisible people.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:15 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:53 pm My personal philosophical ideas have always been about the pretence (sic) that is human language.

I see what you mean. When you attempt to use English, it's only a pretense.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:57 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:53 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:08 pm
*The first qualifier...what I meant to say...

I've always said what I meant to say. If you have not been able to interpret my writing style here - then go ahead and override it with your own interpretation as to what was meant, doesn't change what I meant.

*My personal philosophical ideas have always been about the pretence that is human language. Your confusion is yours, not mine. You can deny the fact that knowledge is a pretence or you can see for yourself the pretense. It's your homework, no one is going to give it to you, you have to graft it for yourself.

*Here they are...

All I want is for the pain, and suffering in the world to stop. Especially the suffering of animals, but how can we make it stop, we can’t can we?

I just want it all to stop.

A heapin' plate of nihilism with a side order of notice me!.

You feel and you want a medal for it.

in the virtue-signalin' competition.

Bleed some more for your audience.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:13 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:12 pm The mind boggles, that perfectly decent, articulate, and gentle men still believe in invisible people.

Maybe you should ask yourself what these "perfectly decent, articulate and gentle men" know, that maybe you don't yet know.

Or not. That will be your choice.