Philosophy Now Forum

I'm sure our good friend, Mike, would declare thinkin' about thinkin' to be as compelled by *Azathoth as anything else.




*Lovecraft's name for that blind, mindless, amoral, deterministic force that Mike sez is the Radix of All.

Sounds like the usual American bullshit.

Oh, wada ya know?

''This higher-level cognition was given the label metacognition by American developmental psychologist John H. Flavell (1976)''

If the Many Worlds interpretation of QM is ever proven to be true then that should end any further arguments re so-called 'free will'. We all know how much the likes of IC and his acolytes respect scientific proof...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:38 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:06 pm " metacognition" is not sophisticated its pseudo gobbledgook.

Really? I thought metacognition was just fancy-schmancy talk for self awareness or thinkin' about (my) thinkin'.

Let's find out...

Metacognition is the awareness and understanding of one's own thought processes, often described as "thinking about thinking." It involves monitoring, evaluating, and regulating one's learning and cognitive strategies to improve understanding and problem-solving. -Wikipedia -Columbia University

...well lookee here, B: I was right!

So: you, my lovely old lady, are wrong.

But neither you nor Skepdick explains how a second order concept may be free from the conditions that caused it to form.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:22 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:19 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:09 pm
Mike, apple of the forum's collective eye, is gone?

You know this how, you filigreed bastid?

There are some people whose egos cannot bear what must feel like unrelenting, cruel attacks. Better to retreat than to be subject to such humiliation.

Meh, Mike's just composing himself. He'll be back.

Nah.

Either our impeccably logical arguments caused BigMike to have a religious-like epiphany where he realized what a fool he's been for denying free will and promoting determinism,...

...or...

...he was too lazy to go through the PN process of putting all of his detractors on ignore, so he just decided to put the whole site on ignore by stepping away,...

...or...

...his programmers in this covert and diabolical (Turing Test-like) social experiment are trying to figure out how to make B.I.G.M.I.K.E.* sound more human and less like—ChatGPT,...

...or...

...

*(Guess the acronym challenge)
_______

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:26 pmBut neither you nor Skepdick explains *how a second order concept may be free from the conditions that caused it to form.

*Got no clue what that means, B. Sounds like, *ahem*, gobbledgook.

I'm sure Skep will address it.

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:42 pm

our impeccably logical arguments caused BigMike to have a religious-like epiphany where he realized what a fool he's been for denying free will and promoting determinism

As I say: Mike knows he's sellin' manure. He's a bad egg lookin' to make people less. All the avowed determinists are like that. So, no, he's had no epiphany.

he was too lazy to go through the PN process of putting all of his detractors on ignore, so he just decided to put the whole site on ignore by stepping away

He never was good at keepin' folks in the penalty box, so, yeah, mebbe, he done quit us. My gut, though, it tells me he'll be back.

his programmers in this covert and diabolical (Turing Test-like) social experiment are trying to figure out how to make B.I.G.M.I.K.E.* sound more human and less like—ChatGPT

Ya know, it could be as simple as he forgot to pay his wi-fi bill and got cut off, or, he just ain't made enough from the book(s) to afford wi-fi and bologna, or, he died, or, he got arrested, or...

We'll never know.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:15 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:26 pmBut neither you nor Skepdick explains *how a second order concept may be free from the conditions that caused it to form.

*Got no clue what that means, B. Sounds like, *ahem*, gobbledgook.

I'm sure Skep will address it.

I simply mean concepts about concepts. For instance, when you understand the idea of efficiency a second order concept would be understanding how you came to understand the idea of efficiency.
This could help you to become more efficient in your business as you throw out ideas that aren't working and seek better strategies/new ideas.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:50 pm I simply mean concepts about concepts. For instance, when you understand the idea of efficiency a second order concept would be understanding how you came to understand the idea of efficiency.

If that's what you mean, then what's the mystery? I, for example, came to understand efficiency thru reading about it, and/or experiencing the difference between efficient and in- or less- efficient.

I could, if you pay me, write an essay on how I became acquainted with the concept.

Not seein' why you think thinkin' about thinkin' is such a big deal.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:25 pmAs I say: Mike knows he's sellin' manure.

That's bullshit!

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:25 pmHe's a bad egg lookin' to make people less.

As if he or anyone needs any help doing that.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:25 pmAll the avowed determinists are like that.

Certain it is that all the avowed idiots like you and Immanual Trump know that for sure as verified by all your epiphanies which amount to nothing more than brain farts.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:34 pm

Hmmm, are you a determinist, dub?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:38 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:34 pm

Hmmm, are you a determinist, dub?

Obviously, you are.

You're not a free will type.

You're not smart enough, or quick enough, to perform the mental gymnastics required to be a compatibilist.

So, along with bein' a nihilist, a pessimist, and an atheist: you're a determinist.

Bad egg.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:44 pmYou're not a free will type.

I don't know what a a free will type is.. What I do know is that according to the neurosciences, free will is not possible because, as mentioned many times, the determinations of which you are aware have already been decided within the subconscious. Not being aware of that preceding event, it's natural to believe that it was wholly YOUR decision, a conscious choice...which doesn't sound like Free Will to me.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:44 pmSo, along with bein' a nihilist, a pessimist, and an atheist: you're a determinist.

...all in moderation, my friend! Methinks, which I do occasionally, you presume too much pertaining to my views, not that they can't be changeable or interchangeable within the progression and confines of one's uncertain years when new insights may reduce or annul the shine of previous ones.

Regarding determinism, the situation seems fairly clear to me, while philosophically remaining a virtual mud puddle.

So I'll try to make this fairly short, knowing the limitations of him whom I'm addressing...

Everything is forged by rules which are thoroughly deterministic, without which, nothing could exist. Every single process requires a definition. With an incalculable number of such processes existing and intersecting, its possibilities become virtually limitless which no conscious mind here or elsewhere active can ever hope to comprehend.

A simple analogy would be a chess board with its 64 squares and 16 pieces, each piece allowing only its own rules of engagement. Within that framework, the variations possible become exponential with each additional movement. The movements allowed are deterministic, and yet all the variations possible from the first to the final move are literally astronomical.

Nature plays against itself and never loses; it only transforms.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:25 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:42 pm

our impeccably logical arguments caused BigMike to have a religious-like epiphany where he realized what a fool he's been for denying free will and promoting determinism

As I say: Mike knows he's sellin' manure. He's a bad egg lookin' to make people less. All the avowed determinists are like that. So, no, he's had no epiphany.

he was too lazy to go through the PN process of putting all of his detractors on ignore, so he just decided to put the whole site on ignore by stepping away

He never was good at keepin' folks in the penalty box, so, yeah, mebbe, he done quit us. My gut, though, it tells me he'll be back.

his programmers in this covert and diabolical (Turing Test-like) social experiment are trying to figure out how to make B.I.G.M.I.K.E.* sound more human and less like—ChatGPT

Ya know, it could be as simple as he forgot to pay his wi-fi bill and got cut off, or, he just ain't made enough from the book(s) to afford wi-fi and bologna, or, he died, or, he got arrested, or...

We'll never know.

It's a shame he's gone. It was fun to see the little chihuahua Henry yapping at the 'heels' of the lion

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 11:27 pm

What I do know is that according to the neurosciences, free will is not possible

Not true.

as mentioned many times, the determinations of which you are aware have already been decided within the subconscious.

Yeah, Mike foisted that up several times, an interpretation Libet himself sez is false.

Everything is forged by rules which are thoroughly deterministic, without which, nothing could exist.

No one disputes the regularities of the world. That wasn't was the back & forth was about.