The fact that so far we are unable to save out species ,and maybe much of our biosphere, from becoming obliterated is caused by our lack of empathy. I agree that man does not evolve (only to a small degree)according to biological natural selection but that man evolves through cultural selection. If and when man can cooperate instead of competing then he may save his species from destruction.Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:17 amThe same "if" in my position prefixes determinism/predestination (I am going to tread the two as effectively synonymous)Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:11 amThanks for your reply. The paragraph with questions beginning with 'if' makes the key points.Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 7:32 am
I've answered it to the best of my abilities. I am simply acknowledging my perpetual state of uncertainty and lack of omniscience.
Despite my desire for my will (and the outcomes thereof) to be deterministic and predictable.
Despite my desires for what I will to be true to actually become true reality resists such determination.
If determinism was true I'd never have any doubts.
If determinism was true why aren't outcomes 100% guaranteed?
If determinism's true why am I even in the position to examine, doubt, and commit to different courses of action?
Why grapple with any of this? Why don't we simply let reality happen to us?
My actual lived experience of uncertainty, choice, and active engagement with reality doesn't match what I'd expect if everything were simply predetermined.
If determinism's true I'd expect none of the cognitive load expended on computing the consequences of my choices.
The existence of cognitive machinery seems entirely redundant in a deterministic universe.
* Determinism is true as to its existence as a natural and ontological force .You would still have doubts because you cannot know all the causes of one event. The causes of one event may be illustrated by the form of an inverted triangle of which the stipulated event E is the apex and the base is the incalculable infinity of causes of E.
* Outcomes from event E are never "guaranteed" because we cannot foretell the future.
* You are in the position to examine, doubt and commit to different actions because natural selection caused you to have a complex and large brainmind. Please consider , if you will, the comparative power of choice between a man and a mouse.
* We grapple with "any of this" because we are motivated to stay alive , and because we have the powers of brainmind to grapple with "any of this".
Such persons as "let reality happen " to them are fatalists. Fatalism is a species of determinism that includes the additional hypothesis that the fates have decided in advance what will happen thus rendering each of us us powerless to decide our own fate. Fatalism is rife in certain cultures where a class of persons are historically oppressed.
Related to fatalism is predestination which is also a species of determinism where the added hypothesis is that God decided in advance of event E what event E will be. Predestination typically pertains to Calvinistic religionists.
Determinists still can't explain the existence of redundant cognitive machinery.
We wouldn't have to grapple with staying alive if we didn't become alive.
Natural selection takes place only after something to be selected for (or even self-selected) emerges.
These are secondary concerns.
We are the only species aware of the rules of the game; and attempting to beat it. By calculating the consequences of our choices.
The very utility of our consciousness is the ability to see we are heading for a wall and alter course.
The very fact that the lifespan of such a machine is extending (human longevity has doubled in 300 years) means we are altering the course of history.
It's difficult to argue determinism when we are the only species who does this.
Unless, of course determinists are trying to convince us that it was pre-determined for us to live 45 years on average throughout history. And then rapidly double our lifespan in the last 300 years.
Is that determinism; or is that what happens when you finally figure out how to use the faculties you've always had to alter the course of history?
You quite often use the term 'pre-determined'. But you don't say who or what does the pre-determining. In my previous post I outlined how fatalism and predestination are what do the pre-determining. You may choose to believe in and trust fatalism or predestination but I don't and probably never will trust either of them.
