For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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I read some report yesterday that the Siberian part of Russia have built nuclear bomb proof underground cities. Which does not surprise me considering how vast the country of Russia is.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:15 am What a ridiculous world. We have two old men holding the future of the planet in their hands
I think you have MISSED my 'point'. But anyway, ...Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:43 amFor your sincere offerings, you deserve some attention-time on that frequency.Age wrote:Also, because of 'generational child abuse' ALL of 'you', adult human beings, have a BELIEF that; "If MY RULES a 'disobeyed', then you WILL BE PUNISHED".
'you', adults, HAVE and HOLD this BELIEF and SAY this, now, because this is what 'you' ALL CONTINUALLY heard as children.
When 'you' STOP BELIEVING, "If you do NOT do as I TELL YOU, then you WILL BE PUNISHED", then those that ARE 'above you' WILL EVENTUALLY STOP having and HOLDING 'this BELIEF', ALSO.
Interesting. I’ve also discovered a variation of this exact quoted thought, in the past. Since you discovered the thought, and I discovered the gist independently of you, I figure most everyone else has also discovered it. Thus the variable is what gets done with it, attention-wise, and philosophically.
There are exceptions, of course. It’s a tendency that doesn’t apply to every relationship interaction within the parent/child relationship, of course. Some parents rarely use bunker-buster persuasion, but to your point yes, it is used.
But this isn’t really the focus of your comment, is it. Your point is larger, and it involves the principle.
*
The thing is, this tendency you describe isn’t just from parent to child. The adult parent doesn’t drop the principle just because the methods that are used on a child, which can be blunt force after persuasion and patience fails, are different than methods used in the rest of the adult’s daily life.
The adult parent continues to use the principle on other adults, applied according to methods determined by the receiving adult’s capacity to be affected.
The principle is also used among nations, the method determined by its effectiveness. This I think, is your focus, considering the situation of the thread title.
What is the principle? It’s simple, of course. True principles are simple. The principle is, NO.
As you describe, all parents use the principle in child-rearing to varying degrees, sometimes needlessly. That’s the purest form of the principle, clearly obvious, stripped down, and applied during the formative years. And, you are correct in that it becomes ingrained, although you didn’t express it exactly as such. NO becomes a habit, and it is a bounded view of reality. The boundary is arbitrary.
Adult to adult, NO is called invalidation and permeates or flavours most every interaction. NO will work its way into every conversation if the conversation lasts more than a few clichés and sound bites, and certainly it’s active in those tuned to debate and attempts to scientifically falsify an hypothesis.
Depending on the nature of the relationship, invalidation, which is the adult method of applying the NO Principle, can be called contrariness, verbal jousting, trash talk, debate, Socratic-dialogue-applied-to-legal-truth-seeking, libel, slander, and so on. It can be called self-sabotage. It can even be called transmission-sabotage by making the vehicle of the message less than transparent when known alternatives are available.
Therefore, new born babies and young children can NOT 'grow' because they do NOT have 'conflict', correct?
Like the one called "donald trump" made a 'good president', correct?
"Bring back the trump", hey "walker"?Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:43 am They’re not warriors out to conquer other nations, which is how they are viewed by those licensed to inspect from arm-chairs, and couches when the chair grows too small, inspectors who are conditioned from childhood to The Principle of Invalidation, that permeates so much of life, and is reinforced by so much media commentary passing itself off as news in airports, public places, and even government-school classrooms.
Deal makers are out for the Win-Win.
They build infrastructure. Civilization.
They are not destroyers or conquerors.
Some can even make Deal-Making into such an Art, so that peace and prosperity reign during their tenure.
I think "henry quirk" is just saying that 'states/governments/"leaders"/countries" can and do fight among themselves, BUT ONLY 'you' own you. NO one else does, including "states/governments/"leaders"/countries".iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:42 amYou know, whatever that means.henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:51 pm But the Ukraine conflict goes way, way beyond that. It revolves around fundamental differences regarding how the world works. Putin could be said to reflect the "might makes right" school of thought.
Nope. This war is the same as any other: an iteration of The State vys with an iteration of The State. You aren't privy to it, but you're expected to support and mebbe die for the particular faction, party, or iteration of The State that lays claim to you.
You feel moved to pick a side. I tell you: all iterations of The State are illegitimate and none have a claim on you.
But, as I say, you are yours: do with yourself as you think best.
As for "picking a side" here, I'm sticking with dasein. You pick the one you were brainwashed as a child to pick and/or the one that, subjectively, given your own accumulation of "personal experiences", you were predisposed existentially to pick.
Then there are those who think up things like "an iteration of The State vys with an iteration of The State" to explain...what exactly?
Again, whatever, for all practical purposes, that even means.
Anyone here willing to hazard a guess?
The reason EVERY one 'thinks' the way they do, is SOLELY because of the previous past experiences of an individual body.iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:42 am Explain what you think it means and then note how it informs your own political prejudices regarding Ukraine.
Finally, it's not what we think is best here that most fascinates me. Instead, it's how, existentially, we come to think one thing rather than another.
There is ONLY One Mind. This Mind is ALWAYS and COMPLETELY OPEN. The Mind is ALWAYS in this 'frame', which, by the way, is the 'most rational and virtuous frame' that could ever possibly be.iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:42 am And then the extent to which philosophers, ethicists and political scientists, using the tools at their disposal, are or are not able to come up with the most rational and virtuous frame of mind that there can ever possibly be.
What the objective Truth is, about "ukraine", is that it is the word provided and used for 'a' parcel of land.iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:42 am The objective moral and political truth about Ukraine. And, for some, the objective spiritual truth in turn.
Whatever happened, had to happen.
Yes, and also that one is not obligated to take a side in this, of any other conflict, between governments (those iterations of The State).
for you, Age... 
Yep.What the objective Truth is, about "ukraine", is that it is the word provided and used for 'a' parcel of land.
Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:47 amIs "your" 'brain' 'hardwired' to think and say what 'it' does here? Or, is it just the individual 'brain', in this body, that is so-called 'hardwired' to think and speak in the particular way 'it' does?commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:29 pmI think you write the way you do because your brain is hardwired to enjoy pissing off everyone it can by being what it believes is cute without concern for what others think as long as they are annoyed by the unconventional way in which you write and think, so to SPEAK.Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:32 am
WHO, in what is (wrongly) called "right mind" would write things like; ' 'you', human beings ', ' in the days when this was being written ', and/or ' could NOT YET SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' IS, EXACTLY '?
What do 'you' think or ENVISION would be the reason of WHY I write THE WAY I DO?
Also, instead of 'thinking' 'things' and one wants to KNOW 'things', then just asking for CLARITY I found is one way to LEARN and KNOW.
1. This 'brain' does NOT 'believe' ANY 'thing'. So, if this was meant to be the 'cause', then this is just Wrong.
2. I write, in a particular way, for the REASONS that I have ALREADY EXPLAINED. And NONE of those reasons include "pissing off" ANY one at all.
3. If 'you', or ANY one else, "gets", (or more correctly, 'feels'), ANNOYED, then is it REALLY 'me' who is CONTROLLING 'this' ALSO? Do you REALLY think or BELIEVE that it is I who has this much POWER over 'you', that I CAN CONTROL how each one of 'you' feels, and thinks?
To make it absolutely CLEAR here, I do NOT write to so-call "piss" ANY one off.
Let me put 'this' this way for 'you'.
Imagine someone came to SEE and UNDERSTAND that the earth actually revolves around the sun, and not the other way around, but EVERY one else besides that one BELIEVES otherwise.
Now, instead of just trying to SHOW and REVEAL what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which takes such a long time, and which some people will for centuries later STILL NOT believe what has ALREADY been PROVED True anyway, I just SHOW and REVEAL HOW ANY one can FIND and SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' IS all by "their" OWN 'selves'. Although this does take a 'long time' also, it WILL, eventually, change 'things' for the BETTER, forever more.
Part of this process of CHANGE involves SHOWING and REVEALING, through ACTUAL PROOF, how human beings USED to 'think' and 'mis/behave'. I write, the way I do, for THIS REASON. I am NOT writing to "piss ANY one off". I write USING 'you', posters, here to SHOW and REVEAL HOW and WHY 'people', back in "those days", were just NOT OPEN to what thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' ACTUALLY IS. Just like the people, back in "those days", when they would NOT LISTEN, NOT ACCEPT, and NOT AGREE with thee ACTUAL Truth that it is ACTUALLY the earth that revolves around the sun.
By the way, some people do get, what is called, "pissed off" when what they BELIEVE is true is being continually explained is NOT true AT ALL.
To SHOW how to PREVENT the Wrong way of 'thinking' and 'misbehaving' EVER AGAIN, I write in a PARTICULAR WAY. That is; instead of just trying to TELL 'you', posters, what is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct, I just USE 'you' to SHOW to 'future readers', HOW and WHY 'you', posters, back in "those days", would NOT LISTEN, and so could NOT HEAR, NOR SEE, thee ACTUAL Truth, to REVEAL what NOT to do in the future, and from NOW ON.
It is said, 'For effective writing one has to understand and/or know your audience'. The 'audience' I am writing FOR is NOT necessarily 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written. I am writing for the 'audience' who has been PREPARED, and thus Truly Honest and OPEN, which, as can be SEEN, is NOT YET 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this being written.
You—8 lines up.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:50 amIf you HAD CLARIFIED, then you would have LEARNED, and KNOWN, what I was referring to, EXACTLY.Was ANY one suggesting otherwise?
If yes, then who, EXACTLY?
"8 lines up" from WHERE, EXACTLY?commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:28 pmYou—8 lines up.