Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:20 pm ...there is no power on earth to make existence not exist....

That's true.

But knowing...

Whoops! Illegitimate shift in terms. "Knowing" is one thing; "existing" is another. Somebody can "know" something that exists, or "fail to know" something that exists...or can "imagine" something that does not exist, or "not imagine" it. Human knowledge is fallible, limited and prone to error. But existence, truth, is what it is.

So none of that stuff about "knowing" has any impact at all on the truth.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:42 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:20 pm ...there is no power on earth to make existence not exist....

That's true.

But knowing...

Whoops! Illegitimate shift in terms. "Knowing" is one thing; "existing" is another. Somebody can "know" something that exists, or "fail to know" something that exists...or can "imagine" something that does not exist, or "not imagine" it. Human knowledge is fallible, limited and prone to error. But existence, truth, is what it is.

So none of that stuff about "knowing" has any impact at all on the truth.

I agree that human knowledge has no impact on truth. Truth is self standing, so is pain and suffering in all aware sentient creatures.

All pain and suffering is not good, and humans are intelligent enough to know that bad is not a good idea. Again, desire for the self is an addiction to pain and suffering that no God can stop, the onus is on the humans to stop breeding themselves into existence, unless of course they can invent a God who will wipe all the bad away.

.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:17 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:22 am lets hear your own account of why you believe God exists.

Actually, God has a full account of why I exist.

What a weak minded diversion.
LOL

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:01 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:59 pm The human brain is dual by nature...

Eh?

What does that mean, in your view, and how do you know it's true?

It is interesting that Advaita Vedanta existed long long before modern neuroscience, and before European philosophy understood that the human brain has subjective aspect(mind) and objective aspect (anatomical and physiological brain).

This dual aspect has improved the clinical treatment of sufferers from psychoses by combining the disciplines of neuroscience(brain) and psychiatry (mind).

Immanuel Can provides opportunities to explain what is the case. It would not do if philosophers had no opposition.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:20 pm ...there is no power on earth to make existence not exist....

That's true.

But knowing...

Whoops! Illegitimate shift in terms. "Knowing" is one thing; "existing" is another. Somebody can "know" something that exists, or "fail to know" something that exists...or can "imagine" something that does not exist, or "not imagine" it. Human knowledge is fallible, limited and prone to error. But existence, truth, is what it is.

I agree that human knowledge has no impact on truth. Truth is self standing,

Yep.

...so is pain and suffering in all aware sentient creatures.

A different question, but plausibly so. Let's assume it's true.

All pain and suffering is not good,

As counterintuitive as it may seem to say so, that's not self-evidently true. A lot of people think certain pains and sufferings are worthwhile, provided certain goods are a product of them.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:01 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:59 pm The human brain is dual by nature...

Eh?

What does that mean, in your view, and how do you know it's true?

... the human brain has subjective aspect(mind) and objective aspect (anatomical and physiological brain)...

Oh, just that. Okay. Everybody knows that, and it takes no special skill to discover it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:10 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:01 pm
Eh?

What does that mean, in your view, and how do you know it's true?

... the human brain has subjective aspect(mind) and objective aspect (anatomical and physiological brain)...

Oh, just that. Okay. Everybody knows that, and it takes no special skill to discover it.

That's fine . Then you and DAM appear to agree on the matter of dualism.

If, on the other hand, DAM means something else by 'dualism' I admit I do not understand what that could be.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:10 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:32 pm
... the human brain has subjective aspect(mind) and objective aspect (anatomical and physiological brain)...

Oh, just that. Okay. Everybody knows that, and it takes no special skill to discover it.

That's fine . Then you and DAM appear to agree on the matter of dualism.

Well, B., don't you don't believe there is such a thing as a "mind," and such a thing as a physical "brain"? Do you have your doubts about either?

All pain and suffering is not good,

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:05 pm As counterintuitive as it may seem to say so, that's not self-evidently true. A lot of people think certain pains and sufferings are worthwhile, provided certain goods are a product of them.

Living just for the reward of good is the most profound form of unnecessary suffering we impose upon ourselves. Only a sadistic masochist would want to keep playing that stupid game over and over again. No thanks. Oh but it will be worth it I hear you say, but where's the worth and value in having to experience over and over again, the long lasting lingering psychological trauma of having to endure what is always a losing game in a mostly broken reality. Watching our loved ones and our pets die horribly, or them watching us die horribly. Only a fool would think this is a good idea. Oh lets keep playing that game over and over again, that's a fun thing to do. When does good ever become a change for the better? when does our life ever become worthwhile? Oh that's right, it doesn't.

And why would God promise humans eternal life? What good is an eternal life of having to endure pain and suffering. What intelligent person would ever choose permanent pain? Life is a broken system, nothing is gained here, everything dies in the end. Why keep imposing it upon ourselves, and for what, what's so good about it? have you any ideas about what's so good about pain?

So why would you want to live forever I.C ? .... can you give a good reason to that question? I'm betting you cannot.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:02 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:10 pm
Oh, just that. Okay. Everybody knows that, and it takes no special skill to discover it.

That's fine . Then you and DAM appear to agree on the matter of dualism.

Well, B., don't you don't believe there is such a thing as a "mind," and such a thing as a physical "brain"? Do you have your doubts about either?

Absolutely not! Brain and mind are different aspects of the same.Brain is the physical aspect: mind is the mental aspect. Call it if you will 'brain/mind ' or 'brain-mind'.

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:22 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:02 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:39 pm
That's fine . Then you and DAM appear to agree on the matter of dualism.

Well, B., don't you don't believe there is such a thing as a "mind," and such a thing as a physical "brain"? Do you have your doubts about either?

Absolutely not! Brain and mind are different aspects of the same.Brain is the physical aspect: mind is the mental aspect. Call it if you will 'brain/mind ' or 'brain-mind'.

All well an good - rearrange atoms in any way you want - but ultimately will they create U?

In other words, will your qualia when you scratch the back of your hand - ever - ever - be replicated again?

U R unique - as is the ability to be conscious.

HOW R we conscious? - well - Dave Chalmers is attempting to get deep - to 'fathom' it out - but he is another short sighted 1 - after a short email exchange. - nice bloke tho.

I keep postin' this...

https://mindmatters.ai/2020/02/why-pion ... the-brain/

...in various relevant threads

mebbe this time someone will read it

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:22 pm Brain is the physical aspect: mind is the mental aspect. Call it if you will 'brain/mind ' or 'brain-mind'.

Then you are a dualist.

For you recognize the discrete existence of two types of substance: the mental and the physical. That is, unless you've changed your mind and become simply a Physicalist or Materialist, in which case you have to believe that what we call "mind" doesn't really exist at all, but it a mere accident of appearance, with no actuality of its own.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:47 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:32 pm Thank you Immanuel.

Oh, I am not Immanuel -- I would never say so much of myself. And you'll see why, when you know what "Immanuel" means.

I'm only here to say that I cannot possibly give all the answers a person might want or need; but "Immanuel Can."

Dear mannie.

I've just realised, I have no more questions to ask. I have only to ask Jesus.

Thank you for restoring my faith. It had gone a bit wobbly for a long while, kind of like I had become trapped in purgatory for a spell, but something you said to me made me break free from purgatory. My faith stands strong, and not forgotten. Never forgotten.

Are you for real?

"Immanuel" is from meaning, "In-man-el" or "Am-man-el" , which is more like, "God is in man" which can be as much to mean, "Goodness is in man" such that, in line with the concept of "Jesus Christ" to actually mean, "I am equal to the annointed King". You don't need any literal religious interpretation of anything more devine than it as meaning the EACH PERSON is EQUAL by Nature and so the King, is no more significant than any member of society.

And for Immanuel, this points to Christianity's origin as a SOCIALIST movement!!

Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:01 am "Immanuel" is from meaning, "In-man-el" or "Am-man-el" , which is more like, "God is in man" which can be as much to mean, "Goodness is in man"...

Correction:

Immanuel: "with us is God"
Original Word: עִמָּנוּאֵל
Part of Speech: Proper Name Masculine
Transliteration: Immanuel
Phonetic Spelling: (im-maw-noo-ale')
Definition: "with us is God"