Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 7:16 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 1:44 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 11:01 am
I deserve to go to Hell according to the rather unforgiving judgment that you , perhaps unwittingly, portray to me.
We all do, if we’re honest with ourselves — me as well as you. For Scripture says, “all have sinned,” (Rm. 3:32) and adds, “the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Rom. 6:23)
I am not a Muslim but the Koran makes it clear to me that God's mercy encompasses everything.
I’m afraid you’ll find that this is not what the Koran says…at least, it’s not what the one on my shelf says.
So, if I prayed to God , I would pray "help thou mine unbelief in thy mercy".
That’s actually a great prayer. Why not turn that “if” into a “when,” and find out what happens?
Thank you for telling me that you don't belong to any sect of Christianity. I want to be clear in my mind whether what you write is doctrinal or not.You will be aware that some here think you belong to an evangelical sect of Christianity.
You would be vaguely correct, but only vaguely, since the term “evangelical” is very, very broad indeed. To know about particular doctrines, you’d have to know either that I subscribed to some more precise clerically-invented doctrinal package, or that I was committed to the Scripture itself. The latter is the case.
I don't really know what "I belong to the Lord" means. Literally it is nonsense as you cannot be enslaved to a dead person.
Right. Hence the necessity of the Resurrection. You can’t relate in any way to somebody who’s dead. Well said.
The bond there is of gratitude, not enslavement. But unless you start with something like the little prayer you suggest for yourself, you can’t personally know what it means, because it’s outside the range of experiences possible to the natural person. Salvation comes from God, not from any sort of engineering from the human realm. Human beings cannot drag God down to their level and compel Him to submit to their demands; but God can raise people to the place where they become aware of their need and their choices, and bring them understand the opportunity salvation really is.
It’s all about relationship, as it turns out. And once you’re in it, you understand.
But there are plenty of verses in the Koran and Hadith about God's mercy
1. “My mercy encompasses all things.”
— Qur’an 7:156
2. “Say, ‘O My servants who have transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.’”
— Qur’an 39:53
3. “Your Lord is the Possessor of vast mercy. If He were to seize them for what they earn, He would have hastened punishment for them.”
— Qur’an 18:58
4. “In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.”
— Opening of every chapter (Sūrah) except one
The rest are not from Koran. The Haddiths say all sorts of other mad things, but I didn't mention them, and they aren't relevant to defending the Koran.
Let's look at what you've got.
#4 is a repeated salutation, like genuflecting, and does not at all say to whom A. is "merciful," and to whom he is not. So it doesn't tell us anything. #1 might be your only case. #2, by its own reckoning, only applies to those already submitted to Islam. #3 doesn't even say who "them" is.
But how about these?
Quran 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
Quran 4:89: "...seize them and kill them wherever you find them...".
Quran 4:104: "...when ye are in safety, observe proper worship. Worship at fixed hours hath been enjoined on the believers. Relent not in pursuit of the enemy.
Quran 9:5 (also known as the "Verse of the Sword"): "...kill the polytheists wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way".
Quran 47:4 "Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain."
Quran 2:190-194: "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil)."
Quran 2:216-217: "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not. They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel his people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can."
There's more, of course, but this will do.
So when, in 7:156, it says that A.'s "mercy" extends to "all things," it clearly doesn't mean "all things." Even without the principle of abrogation -- that means that Muslims are not bound to 'early sayings' in the Koran, but to 'later sayings,' this is the conception of "mercy" that's being suggested.
Not much mercy in that.