Philosophy Now Forum

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:17 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:30 pm Given that sex was at issue, if you prefer to a female to a male for sex, that desire will definitely have you behave in a particular way. You will try to find a female partner every time you feel like a little nooky.

So, if you desire to have sex with a female, and you know that female is syphilitic or has the clap, you'll have sex with her just because you feel like a little nooky? I don't believe you would.

What I said was, you "must choose whether or not to indulge that desire on the basis of what is really in your own best interest. If getting the drip or going blind are really in your best interest," you might choose to let your desire be your guide, but I'm sure you wouldn't.

I do not believe anyone is, "hardwired," for any kind of desire, but even if we were, a desire for something is never a good basis for a choice. Almost every self-destructive thing anyone has ever done was because they had a desire to do something that their own best reason would have convinced them was a mistake, but they let desire make their choice for them, and suffered the consequences.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:37 pm Given that sex was at issue, if you prefer to a female to a male for sex, that desire will definitely have you behave in a particular way. You will try to find a female partner every time you feel like a little nooky.

So, if you desire to have sex with a female, and you know that female is syphilitic or has the clap, you'll have sex with her just because you feel like a little nooky? I don't believe you would.

What I said was, you "must choose whether or not to indulge that desire on the basis of what is really in your own best interest. If getting the drip or going blind are really in your best interest," you might choose to let your desire be your guide, but I'm sure you wouldn't.

I do not believe anyone is, "hardwired," for any kind of desire, but even if we were, a desire for something is never a good basis for a choice. Almost every self-destructive thing anyone has ever done was because they had a desire to do something that their own best reason would have convinced them was a mistake, but they let desire make their choice for them, and suffered the consequences.

Let a guy know when you change the goal posts.

When I was young, my best buddy was given a dose by a girl. When he finally got rid of it, guess what he did.

He went back for more.

"I have little belief in human progress. The human race is incurably idiotic. It will never be happy." [Letters of H.L. Mencken (1961)]

[Letter to Upton Sinclair, 14 Oct (17)] So long as there are men in the world, 99 percent of them will be idiots, and so long as 99 percent of them are idiots they will thirst for religion, and so long as they thirst for religion, it will remain a weapon over them. I see no way out. If you blow up one specific faith, they will embrace another. [<i>The New Mencken Letters [1977]</i>]

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:37 pm As to being hard wired or not. If you do not believe you have instincts hard wired into your DNA, then you deny reality.

All animals have hard wired instincts. Instincts are demonstrable and irrefutable.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:09 pm I suppose it is comforting, if you don't want to be responsible for your behavior, to be able to blame something else, other than your choice, for it, like instinct.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:58 pm If you cannot explain our history, then you cannot discount our love of violence, killing and war.

commonsense wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:00 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:58 pm If you cannot explain our history, then you cannot discount our love of violence, killing and war.

Not true.

I can discount lots of discountable motivators, one at a time, but the task would be too tedious to bear.

I will, however, give it a go by trying to discount one randomly chosen reason for war. Let’s take a look at greed, for example.

Again, there would have to be at least two parties involved. One has something that the other one covets, something that appeals to the former’s sense of greed. An offer is made for purchase. The offer is rejected. Counter offers are made and dismissed.

The greed of the first party is so strong that threats begin to fill the air. The second party’s fear of the first is so great that counter threats begin to fly back and forth.

The threats escalate and a minor incident becomes the cause of incremental acts of aggression. A war is born.

So, I think it turns out that greed is not discountable after all. In fact, greed might be what explains all wars throughout the centuries. Or greed might be one of many factors that ignite war. Even jealousy or envy.

But not love.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:09 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:43 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:04 pm

Whose law do you live by? Yours or the law of the land?

You didn't answer my question. You just asked me a different one.

Could you answer it now?

Because your answer was the answer to your own question.

I don't know when you started following the law of the land so only you can answer that question.

commonsense wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:00 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:58 pm If you cannot explain our history, then you cannot discount our love of violence, killing and war.

Not true.

I can discount lots of discountable motivators, one at a time, but the task would be too tedious to bear.

I will, however, give it a go by trying to discount one randomly chosen reason for war. Let’s take a look at greed, for example.

Again, there would have to be at least two parties involved. One has something that the other one covets, something that appeals to the former’s sense of greed. An offer is made for purchase. The offer is rejected. Counter offers are made and dismissed.

The greed of the first party is so strong that threats begin to fill the air. The second party’s fear of the first is so great that counter threats begin to fly back and forth.

The threats escalate and a minor incident becomes the cause of incremental acts of aggression. A war is born.

So, I think it turns out that greed is not discountable after all. In fact, greed might be what explains all wars throughout the centuries. Or greed might be one of many factors that ignite war. Even jealousy or envy.

But not love.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:22 am War is not fought for warring's sake. Always, it's a means, a method, never an end.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:24 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:09 pm I suppose it is comforting, if you don't want to be responsible for your behavior, to be able to blame something else, other than your choice, for it, like instinct.

I am not sure where you got that notion when responsibility for actions never came up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRHetRTOD1Q

That is twice now that you take off on a tangent.

You want to think you do not have what every other animal has, instincts, so we are done here.

Thanks for the chat.

Regards
DL

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:36 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:09 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:43 pm
You didn't answer my question. You just asked me a different one.

Could you answer it now?

Because your answer was the answer to your own question.

I don't know when you started following the law of the land so only you can answer that question.

Your answer is "when you started following laws?" That's your answer?

You mean you think "freedom" means lawlessness? You think "freedom" is inherently antisocial? You think there's no way to reconcile living among other human beings in a society, and being a free person?

Just asking.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:59 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:22 am War is not fought for warring's sake. Always, it's a means, a method, never an end.

At least there has to be some plausible excuse the gullible public will accept before they will send their children to be killed and crippled in some far-off hell hole. But there are men for whom war itself is the purpose of their life, including mercenaries, professional military, and the entire military arms industry, who will do anything to ensure there is perpetual war.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:24 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:09 pm I suppose it is comforting, if you don't want to be responsible for your behavior, to be able to blame something else, other than your choice, for it, like instinct.

I am not sure where you got that notion when responsibility for actions never came up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRHetRTOD1Q

That is twice now that you take off on a tangent.

You want to think you do not have what every other animal has, instincts, so we are done here.

Thanks for the chat.

Regards
DL

Touched a nerve, did I? Sorry, it was unintended.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:36 am
You mean you think "freedom" means lawlessness? You think "freedom" is inherently antisocial? You think there's no way to reconcile living among other human beings in a society, and being a free person?

Just asking.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:05 pm We all have a free will, but not freedom.