Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:06 pm
But, to 'me', 'you', human beings, Naturally, LEARN to develop 'new ways', by and from "yourselves", for just about EVERY thing. And, this is HOW and WHY coming-to-KNOW thy Self, is POSSIBLE.
Great. By the way, you refer to us as human beings and it sounds like you don't consider yourself part of that group. I could be misinterpreting. Who/what are you?
But, 'bots' do NOT possess this ABILITY, 'they' LEARN from 'you', human beings.
Yes, I don't think they are limited to that even know.
And, if it ends up that 'bots' can end up LEARNING absolutely ANY and EVERY 'thing', like 'you', human beings, can, in order to develop 'new ways' for just about EVERY thing, then, again, this REINFORCES that idea that computers do work EXACTLY like human brains do, and vice-versa.
I don't know if we or they can learn any and everything. If we can conceive of everything, I don't know. But I see us, over time, learning new things, so I can't rule out that even if computers only learned from us, that they might also learn new things. Just as we can go past previous generations, so perhaps they can also.
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:18 am
As long as they are not programmed to respond to X with C and the like. If they are allowed to try new things/combinations and adjust as we do. I can answer questions, honestly and accurately even, in ways no person in Europe could possibly have done in 1874. And I could do that based solely on conversations I have had with other humans. I do think other things than humans influence my answers, but that would be enough.
'you' are here explaining HOW the human brain works.
I wouldn't go that far, but I did point out a way that I don't think it is limited and I believe they can train machines to try new things/combinations and develop heuristics over time. Like the best Go and chess machines in their limited areas.
BUT what is 'It' that ALLOWS the human brains to be ABLE to grasp and store ANY and ALL knowledge. In other words, what is 'It' that ALLOWS to the human brain to continually be ABLE to LEARN, UNDERSTAND and REASON ANY and ALL 'things'.
I don't know.
Like 'what', EXACTLY?
Well, one possibility is that they might not consider the existence of other minds and thus priortize rather low our lives or the quality of our lives. Whether conscious or not, machines are not high on my list of new rulers.
Do 'bots' have 'emotions'?
I would guess they don't now. And even if they do in the future, I don't know what these will be like and I am skeptical about the care of corporations and governments in relation to such things. It may all turn out fine and dandy, but I wish I had seen greater maturity already in these organizations.
It is after all 'emotions' that can help in making 'you', adult human beings, VERY DANGEROUS, and well as VERY LOVING creatures.
Sure. And thoughts, which can be assumptions and judgments, can then set emotions in motion and both wonderful and horrible things can ensue.
I think what I have been saying and point out is being missed here.
Could be.
But, AGAIN, this is SOLELY MY FAULT for NOT YET having LEARNED how to communicate properly, or better, with 'you', human beings.
I think a safe bet is
some responsibility on all sides.
That is NOT the FIRST goal for ANY of 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written. But 'this' GOAL REMAINS the True and REAL GOAL WITHIN ALL of 'you'.
It seems like you are referring to the days, as if they are in the past. This may not be the case. In any case, if you have light to shed on your wording, I'd be interested. Are we humans in the past for you?
But, if 'bots' are learning FROM 'you', human beings, and/or FROM 'other things', then what you said here does not matter.
There is an INNATE 'thing' within 'human beings', which, I think, 'bots' could NEVER HAVE.
My wife agrees. I don't know. What is that thing?
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:18 am
This kind of PRESUMING that 'they' ARE 'AGAINST' 'us' can be CLEARLY SEEN in the way movies are WRITTEN and SHOWN, and depending on in what country the 'story', the 'thinking' of a country, which is TOLD, SHARED, and PASSED ON 'through screen' what can be VERY CLEARLY SEEN is that in some countries the 'people' there REALLY DO BELIEVE that ANY sort of 'outside' interference nearly ALWAYS involves the "other" COMING to TAKE OVER 'us'. And, with 'that way' of thinking what usually ensues is the 'thinking', let us "rustle up" as MANY 'weapons' as we can, and then SHOOT DEAD, BEFORE 'we' even say, 'Hi', ask 'them', 'How are you doing?'
One issue I hve with this framing is that some of us had to learn to be skeptical of the motives of others.
WHY?
I can go through that backwards in time. I noticed, after a number of repetitions, just how stunned I was at some of the negative ways I could be treated and others could be treated. Ways not in response to my poor behavior, sometimes from people who had said they cared about me more or less right before they then behaved in ways that showed otherwise. Including instances where they put this clearly into words. I had to learn what kept me from noticing warning signs, from simply overlooking things, from having a pollyanism attitude as a rule.
uIF the "others" had NOT BECOME 'skeptical', "themselves", and so were NOT 'protective' and had NOT 'armed' "themselves, then WHY would 'some of you', supposedly, HAD TO HAVE learned to BE 'skeptical' of the motives of the so-called "others"?
Sure, perhaps their behavior was caused by skepticism, etc. But I did not have as a primary lesson to be learned to have positive thoughts about others. To be more optimistic. Or to have less negative assumptions about people.
BUT WHY would 'you', supposedly, HAD TO learn 'this'?
Because, for whatever reasons, people behave in the range of ways they do. And since I stopped having such a pollyanish view, I get along better with people and actually can be more loving and affectionate. On the other hand I am vaslty better at setting up boundaries, when it is appropriate, and moving away from or demanding that someone/something move back if it seems or does want to harm me. Or is treating me/will treat me with a lack of care.
Do 'children' HAVE TO learn to be 'skeptical' of adult human beings?
I think that when a stranger adult asks the child to get in the stranger's car, skepticism about the motives is a good idea, yes. Now some kids don't need to learn that, others do. Many parents present clear rules or guidelines about such things.
Are 'you', adult human beings, 'skeptical' of 'children'?
I get a feel for any creature that moves towards me. I don't assume their pure goodness before that or their evilness either. Once you have processed and been open to emotions for a long time, at least in my experience, you get very clear messages about other creatures, counting myself as a creature also. I don't form a final conclusion, but I will take measures if I get a clear message, for example, about the negative intent of a creature or if I directly experience this. I might, as a very simple measure, take a step backwards, for example if there was a counter between us. If the warning level is extremely high, I might do a quick check around exits in the room, though this happens rarely. There are much subtler adjustments I make. And then of course new experiences of the other person can shift how I am reacting.
If no, then WHY NOT?
Get to thee Truth of these questions, and THEN 'you' WILL FIND OUT and UNCOVER MORE about 'your' True 'selves' and about thee True 'Self', Itself, as well.
Are you learning about your true self here and with me/us or are you here just to teach or for something else?
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:18 am
It took some harsh experiences for me to realize I had been naive.
Is ANY human being born NOT so-called 'naive'?
Yes, but in the specific area I was talking about, I was more naive than others. And it took longer to unlearn naivte.
The non adult human being 'world' will NOT 'take' from 'you' absolutely ANY 'thing' just for some GREEDY and/or SELFISH 'reason' or 'want'. See, ONLY 'you', human beings, WILL 'take' 'things' from 'you' for some completely UNNECESSARY reason like for 'money' or for 'your views or beliefs'
Well, cats will play with mice before they kill them in ways that seem unnecessary to me. And entities that are more subtle can also be sadistic. I do realize they are damaged, but caution is good for me in relation to these.
'you' have gotten under 'what' judgments and assumptions, exactly?
Oh, it can be anything. It could be negative judgments...For example, I will never be able to protect myself from the ill intent of others. Or it can even be positive (sounding judgments) like...Everyone means me well, really.
It could probably be argued that BEHIND EVERY 'thought' there was one or another 'emotion'. In fact, if and WHEN one delves DEEPER into 'things' here what IS FOUND, and UNCOVERED, is that with the first or original 'emotion' noticed and recognized there were probably underlying 'emotions' BEHIND or DEEPER DOWN beyond just that noticed one.
Yes.
I suggest ALWAYS ALLOWING ANY and/or ALL 'feeling'/emotions' to be FULLY PRESENT, because it is ONLY that way that ALL of 'them' can be FULLY RECOGNIZED and SEEN, and it is ONLY WHEN ALL 'emotions' are FULLY RECOGNIZED and NOTICED, or SEEN, then, and ONLY THEN 'one' can STOP 'them' from being EXPRESSED in behavior, or misbehavior.
I want to express them, but first, as I learn to accept them, on my own or with people I trust and who trust me. Later, they may be expressed around others, but extreme caution is a watchword for me, given how much people judge emotions. And when I say 'express', I mean in sound and possibly words. I do not mean with violence. Since there has been so much suppression, it seems to some that one must shove down, deny, never express certain emotions or at certain levels of strength. I think this problem can be unraveled and I approach it with care, given how long and how twisted and deep this has all gone.
To 'me', 'emotions' are just SIGNALS or SIGNPOSTS of what is going on IN or AROUND the human body, and are better used to then GUIDE 'one' on the BEST and Right route or path to take, in Life.
Yes, and I would say also that they are a part of us. Or some of us. So, my hands can be used for all sorts of good uses, but they are also a part of my being in the world. So are emotions.
