Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:09 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:32 am True, but is a free society and its benefits even possible without the ability of its citizens to defend itself with guns? Should the gun in the nuclear family be considered a noble symbol of defense or should it be considered a tool of attack as it is now by the left?

I thought I answered...let me check...yep, I answered.

You did. I just wanted you to elaborate. For example you wrote, "A gun means you can defend yourself and others." But it can also means that the gun makes it possible to attack others. That is the argument that the left uses to oppose gun rights. But if guns are essential to assure freedom, They are necessary because of the human need to dominate

Is President Zelesky of Ukraine a hero for going down with the ship and leading the Ukraine by using a gun or just a fool who should have dropped his gun and just escaped as the intelligent thing to do?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:39 amHave you NOT heard of a supermarket or store?

Have you not heard of economic collapse? When the market is gone: what will you eat?

LOL So, is that A reason 'you' TELL "yourself" WHY you OWN a gun?

And, IF the so-called "economic market" collapsed, then what are you going to SHOOT DEAD, to eat?

Some people REALLY do say the MOST SILLIEST of 'things'.

Are you going to make your OWN bullets, or do you have ENOUGH ALREADY to last your the rest of your lifetime?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:02 am

Defend from 'what', EXACTLY?

From autists comin' into my home, univited, at 3am, to steal my goddamned toothpicks.

Okay.

So, it took me a while but I FINALLY got to the ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:06 amyou wrote, "A gun means you can defend yourself and others." But it can also means that the gun makes it possible to attack others.

Sure, but I wasn't talkin' about offense or offenders. I was answerin' your question about guns bein' necessary for a free society.

That is the argument that the left uses to oppose gun rights.

Sure. So what? Let's say they ban all guns and ammo: so what? I won't give up mine. You?

But if guns are essential to assure freedom, They are necessary because of the human need to dominate.

There's always gonna be someone who wants your stuff or you. The gun allows you respectfully decline the offer of the other guy to relieve you of your stuff or your life.

Is President Zelesky of Ukraine a hero for going down with the ship and leading the Ukraine by using a gun or just a fool who should have dropped his gun and just escaped as the intelligent thing to do?

I'm less interested in the politician and more the common guy or gal just tryin' to preserve a business, a homestead, a family.

Age

If no, then 'what' does YOUR gun "protect" 'you' from, EXACTLY?

Human nature. A criminal will enter the home of a nuclear family and seek to rob it and even molest the wife. The Man shoots the burglar and defends his home. It is the same with a country. Anther country attacks it for one of many reasons. The country defends itself by first threatening retaliation.

Since human nature is the way it is, guns are essential for defense if freedom is the goal.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:10 am
what are you going to SHOOT DEAD, to eat?

I live in the country and I hunt, so pretty much the same stuff I eat now: autists (you're considered wild game here in S. LA.).

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:22 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:06 amyou wrote, "A gun means you can defend yourself and others." But it can also means that the gun makes it possible to attack others.

Sure, but I wasn't talkin' about offense or offenders. I was answerin' your question about guns bein' necessary for a free society.

That is the argument that the left uses to oppose gun rights.

Sure. So what? Let's say they ban all guns and ammo: so what? I won't give up mine.

WHY NOT? What are you AFRAID OF, EXACTLY?

Also, this sounds like 'you' ARE MORE SHACKLED than I first REALIZED.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:22 am You?

But if guns are essential to assure freedom, They are necessary because of the human need to dominate.

There's always gonna be someone who wants your stuff or you.

This is OBVIOUSLY NOT True, and ONLY the words of the Truly WEAK and SCARED. It is also a 'view' used to "justify" 'them' WANTING and TAKING "other's" stuff, like 'you' DO, "henry quirk". It is also the 'view' of one when TRYING their HARDEST to "justify" owning a gun or weapon.

It is also a 'view' of one who has been SEVERELY ABUSED.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:22 am The gun allows you respectfully decline the offer of the other guy to relieve you of your stuff or your life.

REALLY WHO would WANT to relieve 'you' of ANY of "your stuff", or even "your" life, "henry quirk"?

What do you think you "own" that ANY one else would Truly WANT?

Do ANY of the posters here, in this thread, want to relieve the one here as "henry quirk" of its life, or of ANY of the "stuff" it THINKS it "owns"?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:22 am

Is President Zelesky of Ukraine a hero for going down with the ship and leading the Ukraine by using a gun or just a fool who should have dropped his gun and just escaped as the intelligent thing to do?

I'm less interested in the politician and more the common guy or gal just tryin' to preserve a business, a homestead, a family.

AGAIN, it seems to be ALL about 'material property', SUPPOSED 'monetary value', and a select FEW.

'you', adult human beings, REALLY do want to KILL "each other" just because of your LOVE-OF-MONEY, and just for a selected FEW only, correct?

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:53 am What are you AFRAID OF, EXACTLY?

Autist overpopulation: left unchecked your kind are like locusts.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am Age

If no, then 'what' does YOUR gun "protect" 'you' from, EXACTLY?

Human nature.

LOL
LOL
LOL

And what, EXACTLY, IS 'human nature', to 'you'?

And, do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that 'guns' are HERE to PROTECT 'you', human beings, from 'your' OWN 'nature'?

If yes, then what can be CLEARLY SEEN is what I had to DEAL WITH, back then.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am A criminal will enter the home of a nuclear family and seek to rob it and even molest the wife.

What can be CLEARLY SEEN here is that 'you' have ALREADY JUDGED and LABELED A 'human being' as some 'thing' ELSE.

The ALREADY JUDGED and NAMED "criminal" might ALSO just be using 'that' home to HIDE from people like "yourself" WITH A GUN, WANTING to KILL 'them'.

What do the words 'nuclear family' mean, or refer to, to 'you'?

What led you to ASSUME the so-called "criminal" WILL enter the home of a so-called "nuclear family", AND SEEK to ROB it and even MOLEST the wife?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am The Man shoots the burglar and defends his home.

Okay.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am It is the same with a country. Anther country attacks it for one of many reasons. The country defends itself by first threatening retaliation.

Well that OBVIOUSLY does NOT work.

NO people of a country have been able to "defend" "their country", from the peoples of "another country" who have MORE or BIGGER weapons, by just "threatening retaliation".

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am Since human nature is the way it is, guns are essential for defense if freedom is the goal.

This is BEYOND a JOKE, and a PRIME EXAMPLE of how 'you', human beings, will say just about ANY 'thing' in order to back up and support what is ALREADY BELIEVED to be true, by "yourselves".

EITHER "side" could just say, "human nature is the way it is", as though 'that' WILL back up and support THEIR CLAIM, is BEYOND a JOKE.

If you did NOT INFORM us of what 'human nature' is above, then will you this time?

If no, then WHY NOT?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:32 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:10 am
what are you going to SHOOT DEAD, to eat?

I live in the country and I hunt, so pretty much the same stuff I eat now:

What happens when ALL the "stuff" has been SHOT DEAD, by 'you', human beings, because the "economic market" has SUPPOSEDLY collapsed, completely AND utterly, and 'you' BELIEVE there is NO other way to live?

What do 'you', and the "others", THEN SHOOT DEAD, to eat?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:32 am autists (you're considered wild game here in S. LA.).

And, NOW thee ACTUAL True 'views' are BEING REVEALED. It took a while for me to COACH 'them' out, but they FINALLY CAME.

So, to you, human beings, which by LABEL or NAME ALONE, are considered as 'wild game', just like the 'wild game' that you SHOOT DEAD, to eat, right?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:09 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:53 am What are you AFRAID OF, EXACTLY?

Autist overpopulation: left unchecked your kind are like locusts.

Okay.

And what do 'you', human beings, do with "locusts"? Especially when they are left 'unchecked'?

Also, if one REALLY is AFRAID of human beings with 'autism', then this SAYS and SHOWS a GREAT DEAL about who, and what, that 'one' Truly IS.

Better 'we' SHOOT DEAD ALL children with 'austism' hey "henry quirk"?

That way this would be MUCH MORE CONSISTENT with, and in, "henry quirk's" 'little world' of 'things', correct?

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:34 am Better 'we' SHOOT DEAD ALL children with 'austism' hey "henry quirk"?

Only if we eat 'em.

Swift would approve.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am Since human nature is the way it is, guns are essential for defense if freedom is the goal.

Owning a gun is not a passport to freedom.

No one with a gun is free, owning a gun means the complete opposite, it means one is living in tension, fearing intention. That's not freedom.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:25 am
Since human nature is the way it is, guns are essential for defense if freedom is the goal.

This is BEYOND a JOKE, and a PRIME EXAMPLE of how 'you', human beings, will say just about ANY 'thing' in order to back up and support what is ALREADY BELIEVED to be true, by "yourselves".

EITHER "side" could just say, "human nature is the way it is", as though 'that' WILL back up and support THEIR CLAIM, is BEYOND a JOKE.

If you did NOT INFORM us of what 'human nature' is above, then will you this time?

If no, then WHY NOT?

Human nature refers to the reality that the being of Man is dual natured. It is capable of both the most horrible atrocities as well as the most profound compassion. Freedom requires defense against the most horrible atrocities dedicated to the loss of freedom. Guns provide the defense.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:09 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am Since human nature is the way it is, guns are essential for defense if freedom is the goal.

Owning a gun is not a passport to freedom.

No one with a gun is free, owning a gun means the complete opposite, it means one is living in tension, fearing intention. That's not freedom.

Freedom requires efforts to sustain it against those which oppose it. By definition it creates tension. Without tension there is no life.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:20 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:09 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:25 am Since human nature is the way it is, guns are essential for defense if freedom is the goal.

Owning a gun is not a passport to freedom.

No one with a gun is free, owning a gun means the complete opposite, it means one is living in tension, fearing intention. That's not freedom.

Freedom requires efforts to sustain it against those which oppose it. By definition it creates tension. Without tension there is no life.

If you have to sustain freedom then it’s not true freedom, it’s a tension brought about by the fear of opposition.

Life is not being in opposition to anything, life is all allowing to be exactly as it is in every moment, unconditionally so.

Freedom is a made up concept of life, freedom only has meaning in association with it’s complimentary opposite within the artificial dream of separation.

In reality, absolute life is not in opposition with itself, it is completely and absolutely unconditional in every moment because there is nothing opposing it.