Philosophy Now Forum

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:23 am Besides money, there are other concepts which make sense and are active motivators in the absence of obvious referents: university, church, government, history, physiology, the art of Michelangelo, my ability to ride a bicycle, why people choose their names for this forum.

I say "obvious referents". We do not know what exactly goes on inside someone's dura mater when they think "money", however there are good arguments that something is happening among neurons that correlates with the word and concept.

Not only does "money" correlate with neuronal activity it also correlates with intersubjective FSKs and FSBs much of which correlate with measurable physical things and events such as coins, buildings, wheels, paintings and so forth.

Anyone who has possession of obsolete coinage knows full well that the value of a coin is not inherent in its material, and has little intrinsic value. The same can be said for all faith based ideas; when people chose not to beleive they loose their meanings and values, like God.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:07 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:13 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:45 am
What I cite from Wiki is basic knowledge.

You have not answered my questions;

Do you deny the US Dollar* is not an economic fact.
Do you deny 'there are economic facts'?

• *If you are not familiar with the US Dollar, we can refer to the Pound Sterling which is currently not backed by gold and silver.
  • At various times, the pound sterling was commodity money or bank notes backed by silver or gold, but it is currently fiat money, with its value determined only by its continued acceptance in the national and international economy. The pound sterling is the world's oldest currency still in use and which has been in continuous use since its inception
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling#History

In this case,
the Pound Sterling is an economic fact represented [not by gold or silver] by mental forces with physical brain matters.

Can you repeat and confirm this,
'There are no economic facts.'

Don't be chicken and a coward, what are your answers to the above?

You've not told me what you think a fact is. Until you do my answer will not reflect my position because you do not have a clear idea of the meaning of "fact".

For the moment I will state that currencies are faith based ideas, that work when and only when they are accepted by a large number of people.
That does not make them "real".

I have already explained what a fact is a "1000" times.
Note I linked these;

My posts

• What is a Fact? by VA
  viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29486
  
  There are Moral Facts by VA
  viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29777
  
  I am very familiar with your idea of 'what is fact', as inherited from the bastardized philosophies of the logical positivist.
  To you and PH, a fact is a feature of reality, i.e. a state of affairs, that is the case. Fact has truth value.
  E.g. "the Sun is 93 million miles from Earth" is about the fact "the Sun is 93 million miles from Earth", which is merely linguistic which does not tell us the real truth of reality.
  or
  'Water is H20" is about the fact "Water is H2O" without any reference to the Chemistry FSK established and maintained by human scientists, plus the various conditions and limitations that contribute to the above fact.
  

  For the moment I will state that currencies are faith based ideas, that work when and only when they are accepted by a large number of people.
  That does not make them "real".

  You are so ignorant that currencies are economic facts.
  
  You also ignorant "accepted by a large number of people" which has to be accepted within a framework and system, in this case, the economic FSK.
  Currencies based on truth will not work if there is no framework and system to institute them as real objective facts.
  
  If you believe currencies are not real, thus unreal, why don't you throw whatever money you have on hand.
  
  Economic facts are an acceptable term by all [average intelligence] who are aware of it.
  How can you deny that?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:16 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:23 am Besides money, there are other concepts which make sense and are active motivators in the absence of obvious referents: university, church, government, history, physiology, the art of Michelangelo, my ability to ride a bicycle, why people choose their names for this forum.

I say "obvious referents". We do not know what exactly goes on inside someone's dura mater when they think "money", however there are good arguments that something is happening among neurons that correlates with the word and concept.

Not only does "money" correlate with neuronal activity it also correlates with intersubjective FSKs and FSBs much of which correlate with measurable physical things and events such as coins, buildings, wheels, paintings and so forth.

Anyone who has possession of obsolete coinage knows full well that the value of a coin is not inherent in its material, and has little intrinsic value. The same can be said for all faith based ideas; when people chose not to beleive they loose their meanings and values, like God.

Generally the real value of money is not inherent in its materials, paper or metal.
But Gold and silver coins do correspondent to their expressed value.

But you missed Belinda main point which I had agreed, i.e.
1. " "money" correlate [primarily] with neuronal activity it also correlates with intersubjective FSKs and FSBs"
and correlate secondarily
2. "with measurable physical things and events such as coins, buildings, wheels, paintings and so forth."

It the FSKs in 1 above that are critical to establish the facts as specific to a FSK.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:34 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:16 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 am
Anyone who has possession of obsolete coinage knows full well that the value of a coin is not inherent in its material, and has little intrinsic value. The same can be said for all faith based ideas; when people chose not to beleive they loose their meanings and values, like God.

Generally the real value of money is not inherent in its materials, paper or metal.
But Gold and silver coins do correspondent to their expressed value.

No.NO.NO.
You are really having trouble with reality here.
I have some gold sovereigns and various silver coins. Their value has NEVER been one sovereign, except for the Victorian ones, which for a very brief period corresponded to ONE sovereign, which was £1 Sterling. Since I have owned them their value has changed daily, and still continues to change with the value of the metal.

But you missed Belinda main point which I had agreed, i.e.
1. " "money" correlate [primarily] with neuronal activity it also correlates with intersubjective FSKs and FSBs"
and correlate secondarily
2. "with measurable physical things and events such as coins, buildings, wheels, paintings and so forth."

It the FSKs in 1 above that are critical to establish the facts as specific to a FSK.

You can take your FSK and FSB - they are just bullshit. Of no value or meaning.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:28 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:34 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:16 am
Generally the real value of money is not inherent in its materials, paper or metal.
But Gold and silver coins do correspondent to their expressed value.

No.NO.NO.
You are really having trouble with reality here.
I have some gold sovereigns and various silver coins. Their value has NEVER been one sovereign, except for the Victorian ones, which for a very brief period corresponded to ONE sovereign, which was £1 Sterling. Since I have owned them their value has changed daily, and still continues to change with the value of the metal.

You are the ignorant one.

I stated,
"Generally the real value of money is not inherent in its materials, paper or metal."

But,
"But Gold and silver coins do correspondent to their expressed value."
I omitted to state, the value of the gold and silver coins in most cases are more that their currency value.

But you missed Belinda main point which I had agreed, i.e.
1. " "money" correlate [primarily] with neuronal activity it also correlates with intersubjective FSKs and FSBs"
and correlate secondarily
2. "with measurable physical things and events such as coins, buildings, wheels, paintings and so forth."

It the FSKs in 1 above that are critical to establish the facts as specific to a FSK.

You can take your FSK and FSB - they are just bullshit. Of no value or meaning.

Ignorant again.

Scientific truths, facts and knowledge are conditioned upon the scientific framework and system [FSK], reality [FSR] and beliefs [FSB].
So you insist scientific truths and knowledge are just bullshit?
Answer??