What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

So what's really going on?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Locked
lancek4
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by lancek4 »

I repost a saying said by someone of insight:

As I go through life I am convinced that life is 2% what happens to us and 98% our attitude upon it.

What this means to me is that my approach to life has an overwhelming real effect upon what may be an actual occurrence. That what may be occurring to my experience is based within my attitude. What that 'actual' experience may be, that is, what is 'out there' allowing me to come upon objects and events, I have little to no ability to get at. I am dentermining what it means for my life.

And this is not a hope or some psychological game I play with some actual brain centered 'actual' manifestation, as if my body and brain are actually a thing 'out there' that is not my self, to be considered as determining what and how I am. As if if I may know this actual thing that manifests what actually may be my self against what I am currently think I, or my self, may be.

And this is not a truth of 'actual' progress because as I assert a progress I am 'stablizing' or 'making inert' or 'foreclosing' some terms. I make them the basis upon which I propose other terms as true. I say 'this wall it actually true' and then I can propose what a road may be and what a nieghborhood, or a brick. In this way I deny that I am creating a scheme of knowledge situated in a particular way, a particular form, upon which I identify my self as being. But all these forms are merely the situation, the 'scaffolding' of knowledge upon which I have built my reality.

No; this is not a hope that detaches from my experience the reality that I am coming upon at any moment. It is the absolute attachment of my experience with that which I come upon in experience, such that I do not avoid my self for the sake of the hope of what I am or should be.

I am not discounting what you sob are saying of an actual absolute truth; but I am saying that it is a futile discussion in that way, for all one concludes is 'truth is'.

In so much as I say 'belief', I am denying my experience for the sake of the truth of what I say. I discount my 'uncomfortable' existence; I wish to do away with the things in life that are causing me discomfort; I hope that through addressing these 'things' out there that I might find my self content within my self.

As I say I beiieve and allow an 'actual' thing of anothers 'beiief' within this 'actual' universe, I call that humility, but I am really proposing my arrogance upon that other in that I am separating my self from my self, and holding the object of my self as greater than that 'other who believes' because I am humble, more willing and thus ethically superior to that other because my sufferring is so much and yet I humbly allow it in my struggle against it, as some natural law - for the sake of being able to glorify my suffering self, my objecthood, against the 'actual' alien, violent, conflict of asserting objects.

This is a part of my experience. That I will not admit the totality of my experience, to that extent I see what I say as indicating various degrees of actuality, of reality, as if what some of what I say or others say may be more or less true against that actually true object. Then instead of seeing that what I say and encounter evidences the only truth that can be known, I see what I say as 'hoping' for the truth, denying what truth may be in the empty space between the assertion and hope.

Ahhhh; that was cathartic. ;)
Last edited by lancek4 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5456
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.











.........................................................
Image









.
Godfree
Posts: 818
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Godfree »

lancek4 ,,,an interesting concept ,
that our experience is mainly controlled by our attitude,
but that is whats going on in our head ,
the reality may not change just because you have an attitude change,
so your personal emotional response to the situation effects the way you experience things . but the things are still the things ,
tomorrow you might experience the same things differently ,
so reality is still reality , your perception of what is real has changed .
the theory of relativity , the dopler effect , we may experience the pitch change as a car goes by , but the reality is the car was making the same note the whole time , it was only our perception of that note that changed .
reality will still be there , when you stop influencing it with your attitude ,
question , is the emotional response to something reality ,
or is reality the thing without attitude ,
to look at the facts honestly , means we drop the attitude ,
impartiality ,, isn't that the only way to look at the facts ,,,???
lancek4
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by lancek4 »

Godfree wrote:lancek4 ,,,an interesting concept ,
that our experience is mainly controlled by our attitude,
but that is whats going on in our head ,
the reality may not change just because you have an attitude change,
so your personal emotional response to the situation effects the way you experience things . but the things are still the things ,
tomorrow you might experience the same things differently ,
so reality is still reality , your perception of what is real has changed .
the theory of relativity , the dopler effect , we may experience the pitch change as a car goes by , but the reality is the car was making the same note the whole time , it was only our perception of that note that changed .
reality will still be there , when you stop influencing it with your attitude ,
question , is the emotional response to something reality ,
or is reality the thing without attitude ,
to look at the facts honestly , means we drop the attitude ,
impartiality ,, isn't that the only way to look at the facts ,,,???
Yes. Hence I included the 'truth is' proposition. Since, yeah, there 'it is'.

But is is more than just choosing to look upon the world differently. I'm not sure I am capable of that because I am always using the same categories to synthesize 'new' ccategories of knowing.
Mark Question
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:20 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Mark Question »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Yes, and it's usually only used for testing and debugging.
not for critical thinking?
chaz wyman
Posts: 5304
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by chaz wyman »

Godfree wrote:lancek4 ,,,an interesting concept ,
that our experience is mainly controlled by our attitude,
but that is whats going on in our head ,
the reality may not change just because you have an attitude change,
so your personal emotional response to the situation effects the way you experience things . but the things are still the things ,
tomorrow you might experience the same things differently ,
so reality is still reality , your perception of what is real has changed .
the theory of relativity , the dopler effect , we may experience the pitch change as a car goes by , but the reality is the car was making the same note the whole time , it was only our perception of that note that changed .


No its means reality is different according to where it is observed from. The observer in the car only hears a continuous note. the observer in front of the car hers a compressed note, and the one behind hears a stretched note. You are trying to say that the reality is with the passenger - why?
Who's to say where the REAL reality is?


reality will still be there , when you stop influencing it with your attitude ,
question , is the emotional response to something reality ,
or is reality the thing without attitude ,
to look at the facts honestly , means we drop the attitude ,
impartiality ,, isn't that the only way to look at the facts ,,,???

How can you be impartial? Where would you stand to be impartial?
Godfree
Posts: 818
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Godfree »

chaz wyman wrote:
Godfree wrote:lancek4 ,,,an interesting concept ,
that our experience is mainly controlled by our attitude,
but that is whats going on in our head ,
the reality may not change just because you have an attitude change,
so your personal emotional response to the situation effects the way you experience things . but the things are still the things ,
tomorrow you might experience the same things differently ,
so reality is still reality , your perception of what is real has changed .
the theory of relativity , the dopler effect , we may experience the pitch change as a car goes by , but the reality is the car was making the same note the whole time , it was only our perception of that note that changed .


No its means reality is different according to where it is observed from. The observer in the car only hears a continuous note. the observer in front of the car hers a compressed note, and the one behind hears a stretched note. You are trying to say that the reality is with the passenger - why?
Who's to say where the REAL reality is?

reality is the car , and the note , , we may be blind but the vision still exists ,
we may be deaf but the sound was still there ,
we may be stupid but wisdom is there to be found ,
reality does not change with us ,
our perception of reality changes not reality itself ...


reality will still be there , when you stop influencing it with your attitude ,
question , is the emotional response to something reality ,
or is reality the thing without attitude ,
to look at the facts honestly , means we drop the attitude ,
impartiality ,, isn't that the only way to look at the facts ,,,???

How can you be impartial? Where would you stand to be impartial?
to seek knowledge requires us to forget what we know , assume nothing ,
and asses the situation afresh , to give each possibility equal consideration ,
if we can't do that , then our attitude will prejudice the outcome ,
we will corrupt the trial and get a dishonest result .
as I have stated many times on here ,
to remove the desire for god to exist , is necessary if you want to take an honest look at the possibility such a thing could be possible .
the honest response is no it's not possible ,
but peoples desire corrupts the outcome ,,,!!!
lancek4
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by lancek4 »

Godfree wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:
Godfree wrote:lancek4 ,,,an interesting concept ,
that our experience is mainly controlled by our attitude,
but that is whats going on in our head ,
the reality may not change just because you have an attitude change,
so your personal emotional response to the situation effects the way you experience things . but the things are still the things ,
tomorrow you might experience the same things differently ,
so reality is still reality , your perception of what is real has changed .
the theory of relativity , the dopler effect , we may experience the pitch change as a car goes by , but the reality is the car was making the same note the whole time , it was only our perception of that note that changed .


No its means reality is different according to where it is observed from. The observer in the car only hears a continuous note. the observer in front of the car hers a compressed note, and the one behind hears a stretched note. You are trying to say that the reality is with the passenger - why?
Who's to say where the REAL reality is?

reality is the car , and the note , , we may be blind but the vision still exists ,
we may be deaf but the sound was still there ,
we may be stupid but wisdom is there to be found ,
reality does not change with us ,
our perception of reality changes not reality itself ...


reality will still be there , when you stop influencing it with your attitude ,
question , is the emotional response to something reality ,
or is reality the thing without attitude ,
to look at the facts honestly , means we drop the attitude ,
impartiality ,, isn't that the only way to look at the facts ,,,???

How can you be impartial? Where would you stand to be impartial?
to seek knowledge requires us to forget what we know , assume nothing ,
and asses the situation afresh , to give each possibility equal consideration ,
if we can't do that , then our attitude will prejudice the outcome ,
we will corrupt the trial and get a dishonest result .
as I have stated many times on here ,
to remove the desire for god to exist , is necessary if you want to take an honest look at the possibility such a thing could be possible .
the honest response is no it's not possible ,
but peoples desire corrupts the outcome ,,,!!!
I submit that for one to forget what he knows requires that he knows that there iis something to forget, and that in this proposed forgetting one has merely remained in that same condition of knowledge by which to determine what one should now know in reference to viewing something impartially.
Godfree
Posts: 818
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Godfree »

Whats stopping us from being impartial ,,???
maybe it is the lack of impartiality that stops people from seeing the truth ,
if you can't be impartial , your truth will always be clouded ,
soiled with your own thinking ,
I think I understand now why I struggle to understand peoples lack of logic ,
to be logical , you have to be impartial ,
the logic is usually lost if desire and prejudice come into it,
It appears the answer to the question is ,
"a lack of impartiality",,,!!!
lancek4
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by lancek4 »

Godfree wrote:Whats stopping us from being impartial ,,???
maybe it is the lack of impartiality that stops people from seeing the truth ,
if you can't be impartial , your truth will always be clouded ,
soiled with your own thinking ,
I think I understand now why I struggle to understand peoples lack of logic ,
to be logical , you have to be impartial ,
the logic is usually lost if desire and prejudice come into it,
It appears the answer to the question is ,
"a lack of impartiality",,,!!!
So logic and impartiality are equivellent? And your struggle to understand peoples lack of logic - doesn't that make you partial to logic ? And doesn't that deny a predominance of human experience?
Godfree
Posts: 818
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by Godfree »

lancek4 wrote:
Godfree wrote:Whats stopping us from being impartial ,,???
maybe it is the lack of impartiality that stops people from seeing the truth ,
if you can't be impartial , your truth will always be clouded ,
soiled with your own thinking ,
I think I understand now why I struggle to understand peoples lack of logic ,
to be logical , you have to be impartial ,
the logic is usually lost if desire and prejudice come into it,
It appears the answer to the question is ,
"a lack of impartiality",,,!!!
So logic and impartiality are equivellent? And your struggle to understand peoples lack of logic - doesn't that make you partial to logic ? And doesn't that deny a predominance of human experience?
in order to see the logic , we must remove our sunglasses ,
our rose coloured god exists glasses , it's a bit like mixing paint , if there is some colour there already , it will effect the final colour ,
partial to logic , I am partial to a bit of logic , struggling to find any in that statement , partial to logic , please explain ,
partial , partial to , likes , enjoys ,endulges in ,
and the rest makes even less sense ,
deny a predominance of human experience ,,??
how does suggesting we lack impartiality do that ,,???
chaz wyman
Posts: 5304
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by chaz wyman »

To be impartial is to imply that you have access to a totality of knowledge and judgement..
We are all partial to particular ways of thinking, judging and interpreting.
It is the act of a fool or a bigot to pretend impartiality.
MJA
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:35 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by MJA »

Impartial is equal is true is absolute is certain is just is free is One is the Universe is

=
MJA
chaz wyman
Posts: 5304
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by chaz wyman »

MJA wrote:Impartial is equal is true is absolute is certain is just is free is One is the Universe is

=
MJA
Impartial is not a state that can be achieved by a mortal.
MJA
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:35 am

Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

Post by MJA »

chaz wyman wrote:
MJA wrote:Impartial is equal is true is absolute is certain is just is free is One is the Universe is

=
MJA
Impartial is not a state that can be achieved by a mortal.

If that is what you think then it is only what you think that stands in your partial Way.

=

Truth is more simple than thought!
Locked