The Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:43 pm Catholics are the only ones who do "hail Marys," of course. And I suggest that not even they would say that what you suggest is true. Catholicism can be quite rigorous in its demands for penance...perhaps not enough, but pretty rigorous, sometimes.

Uh, slightly different versions perhaps, but the Orthodox do "Hail Mary" and so do the Copts. And there is more to the reconciliation with God than penance. Has to be proper contrition and resolve to change. But who am I to be saying things like those, since according to IC I know nothing about Christianity.

IC, read some Rumi and then comment on the evils of Islam.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 2:57 pmDevoid of the bitter language, what you're complaining about is that God might forgive sinners.

Mr Can, why do you think that someone who doesn't believe in god would complain about that?

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:47 pm IC, read some Rumi and then comment on the evils of Islam.

Rumi I know. He was a Persian, not an Arab. He was primarily a poet. He was not a Shiite or a Sunni, as most Muslims are, but rather a Sufi. You need to read the Koran and the Haddiths. That's where you find what they really believe.

Better still, read 9-11. Read the Christmas market massacres. Read the signs carried worldwide by supporters of Hamas. And read France. That's a pretty eloquent volume, right now.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 6:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 2:57 pmDevoid of the bitter language, what you're complaining about is that God might forgive sinners.

Mr Can, why do you think that someone who doesn't believe in god would complain about that?

Great question. I have no idea why you did it. Why don't you tell me?

Hey! It now seems like some of the "peaceful student protestors" are bringing firearms to the "demonstrations." Who could imagine?

There's also rowdy protests in Albania right now. Maybe the reason they aren't on Mannie's radar is because they are complaining about the corrupt deal to sell protected wildlife reserves to Jared Kushner for a hotel development.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 6:40 pm
Rumi I know. He was a Persian, not an Arab. He was primarily a poet. He was not a Shiite or a Sunni, as most Muslims are, but rather a Sufi.

Rumi was an AFGHAN. He wrote his poetry in Perisan, not unusual. A number of other Afghan poets do, to this day. He was a Sunni << Sufis can be either Sunni or Shia >> Many of his poems prayer/devotional. Important Muslim theologian of his time.

I have no idea what the "not an Arab" was abut. MOST Muslims are not Arabs, it just started among Arabs.

And what us this denigration of poetry? Entire sections of the Bible are poetry. The Koran is poetry. Yes these people knew how to read/write, but before printing, text copies rare/expensive/time consuming to make. So most people memorizing the whole and that is easier with poetry than with prose.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 12:24 am The Koran is poetry.

Have you read it? It certainly doesn't qualify as that. Rumi, it ain't.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 6:41 pm

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 6:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 2:57 pmDevoid of the bitter language, what you're complaining about is that God might forgive sinners.

Mr Can, why do you think that someone who doesn't believe in god would complain about that?

Great question. I have no idea why you did it. Why don't you tell me?

Mr Can, I can't do that until you tell me when you stopped beating your wife.

question: is Hitler responsible for the actions of his soldiers?

-Imp

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 9:31 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 6:41 pm

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 6:18 pm
Mr Can, why do you think that someone who doesn't believe in god would complain about that?

Great question. I have no idea why you did it. Why don't you tell me?

Mr Can, I can't do that until you tell me when you stopped beating your wife.

Actually, it's a simple question. You can dodge it if you want, but it's fair enough. I can't guess why you even mentioned the idea that God might be too forgiving to sinners, if you believe there's no such God, and no such thing as sin. He can hardly be deficient in justice if that's the case, can He?

What you're complaining about, from your own suppositional perspective, would be equivalent to the complaint that unicorns are too tall. In other words, if I suppose your worldview to be true, I can't even suppose your question to be serious. So I can't figure out how you can think it's an objection at all.

Besides, absent God, there's no objective justice. Who is there to promise any, or then, to fall short of any? So the lack of justice is something about which your worldview would afford you no basis to complain -- whether about God or man.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 2:12 pm question: is Hitler responsible for the actions of his soldiers?

-Imp

Which actions? The actions of those who obeyed him, or the actions of those who refused?

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 2:12 pm question: is Hitler responsible for the actions of his soldiers?

-Imp

That wasn't the verdict at Nuremburg.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 2:57 pm ...I can't guess why you even mentioned the idea that God might be too forgiving to sinners...

Mr Can, you are as mad and delusional as a very big box of mad and delusional frogs.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 3:48 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 2:57 pm ...I can't guess why you even mentioned the idea that God might be too forgiving to sinners...

Mr Can, you are as mad and delusional as a very big box of mad and delusional frogs.

And yet...no explanation for your own objection.