Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:09 pmIt's not gaslighting, when your perception is actually wrong.

That is true. If you could explain to me why my perception of what Immanuel Can has said is wrong, you will be doing us both a favour.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:22 pm That is true. If you could explain to me why my perception of what Immanuel Can has said is wrong, you will be doing us both a favour.

I can't help you there...

I don't know why your understanding of somebody else's words is wrong. I am simply observing that the person who uttered the words is informing you that you misunderstood their words.

And then I observed you coming up with a pretty lengthy narrative to justify your dismissal of the feedback.

You heard it straight from the horses's mouth and you ignored it. So to speak.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:32 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:22 pm That is true. If you could explain to me why my perception of what Immanuel Can has said is wrong, you will be doing us both a favour.

I can't help you there...

I don't know why your understanding of somebody else's words is wrong.

You don't know whether my understanding is wrong. If you fancy yourself as a white knight you should: 1. Do the research. 2. Find a damsel in distress who is weaker than you.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:23 pm You don't know whether my understanding is wrong.

I do.

The person who uttered the words that require understanding said that you that your understanding of their words is wrong.

If they don't get to decide on such matters then who does?

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:23 pm If you fancy yourself as a white knight you should: 1. Do the research. 2. Find a damsel in distress who is weaker than you.

That's what I did. I found you.

You think you are right when you've been told you are wrong. So if your words are anything to go by...

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:02 pm I'm sure everyone knows someone who cannot admit that they are wrong. The most common reason for this is low self esteem, which creates a moral dilemma: should we laugh or feel pity?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:44 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:23 pm You don't know whether my understanding is wrong.

I do know.

I observed the person who uttered the language tell you so.

Oh great. Another one telling me I don't understand English.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:44 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:23 pm If you fancy yourself as a white knight you should: 1. Do the research. 2. Find a damsel in distress who is weaker than you.

That's what I did. I found you.

You think you are right when you've been told you are wrong.

Do you accept that gas lighting is a real phenomenon? If so, do you accept that this could be an example of it? If so, why not check it out before making a judgement based on no evidence?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:44 pmSo if your words are anything to go by...

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:02 pm I'm sure everyone knows someone who cannot admit that they are wrong. The most common reason for this is low self esteem, which creates a moral dilemma: should we laugh or feel pity?

As I said, that depends on the stability of your own ego.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:56 pm Oh great. Another one telling me I don't understand English.

Nobody has said anything to this effect?!?

Nowhere in my words did I imply you "Don't understand English".

What I did say was that you don't understand what the person speaking is saying to you.

You are fixated on the words, not on the intended meaning. You are reading, but you aren't understanding.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:56 pm Do you accept that gas lighting is a real phenomenon? If so, do you accept that this could be an example of it?

If your understanding is wrong then it's not gaslighting.
If your understanding is right then it's gaslighting.

Your understanding is wrong, then it's not gaslighting.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:56 pm If so, why not check it out before making a judgement based on no evidence?

Every one of my claims is based on evidence. I am pointing you to the evidence as we go along.

The evidence that you don't understand what IC said was IC saying "You don't understand..."
The evidence that you don't understand what I am saying is right above. Where you falsely accused me of insinuating that you don't understand English.

Obviously you understand English. But that's all you seem to understand.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:56 pm As I said, that depends on the stability of your own ego.

I don't have an ego. I have certainty of self and empiricism.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:00 pmYou are fixated on the words, not on the intended meaning. You are reading, but you aren't understanding.

Show me the words I have misunderstood or fuck off.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:02 pm This is called gaslighting....whether we talk depends on the state of your ego.

Ad hominem.

Meanwhile, you have the evidence, right in front of you. But I can't prevent you pretending not to understand, and playing games like this. And to tell the truth, I'm not finding conversation with you fertile soil for mutual understanding or thought. So rather than bandying allegations back and forth, I'll pass.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:03 pm Show me the words I have misunderstood or fuck off.

ASK THE PERSON WHO TOLD YOU THAT YOU MISUNDERSTOOD THEIR WORDS.

Idiot.

Only they are in possession of the precise information you require.

I don't know WHICH words of theirs you misunderstood. I only know THAT you misunderstood words of theirs.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pmI don't know WHICH words of theirs you misunderstood. I only know THAT you misunderstood words of theirs.

No you don't. What you know is that Immanuel Can is claiming that I misunderstood. Talk of the devil...

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:11 pm No you don't. What you know is that Immanuel Can is claiming that I misunderstood. Talk of the devil...

Yes! And him saying it is sufficient.

If I claim that you misunderstood what I am saying then me saying that you misunderstood me is sufficient evidence to justify the claim that you misunderstood what I am saying!

If I don't get to decide that you misunderstood my words, then who does?

But isn't this ironic? I am telling you that I know and you are telling me that I don't. But then you don't like being told that you don't understand.

You seem to be in a tussle with your ego...

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:11 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pmI don't know WHICH words of theirs you misunderstood. I only know THAT you misunderstood words of theirs.

No you don't. What you know is that Immanuel Can is claiming that I misunderstood.

There's an old Yiddish saying, "If one man calls you a donkey, ignore him. If two men call you a donkey, think about it. If three men call you a donkey, buy yourself a saddle."

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:02 pm This is called gaslighting....whether we talk depends on the state of your ego.

Ad hominem.

Meanwhile, you have the evidence, right in front of you.

Here it is for everyone:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:16 pm

You perhaps have forgotten that at first you couldn't understand that ideas can have aesthetic appeal:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:05 amI thought that such a manifestly wild claim I was unwilling to point out its faults. But since you repeat it, if true, it would mean that people choose their "religion" not for truth but because it's somehow aesthetically appealing.

No doubt some people choose a particular church, mosque or synagogue because they like the architecture, the music or the rituals, or because it's "cultural" to them, and they don't actually give a fig whether it's true or not.

Ummm.

I'm going to highlight something for you above in red, so you get what I'm saying, okay?

You'll see that what I have consistently pointed out, is that most people won't. And as I just said, and I'll repeat here: "You'll find that most folks will recognize that "it's beautiful" is an inadequate reason to believe a thing they already believe isn't true."

Are we clear now?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pmBut I can't prevent you pretending not to understand, and playing games like this. And to tell the truth, I'm not finding conversation with you fertile soil for mutual understanding or thought. So rather than bandying allegations back and forth, I'll pass.

At issue is whether you understand that ideas can trigger similar responses to to art and nature - that they can have aesthetic appeal. Perhaps you don't like that point, which ironically supports it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:16 pmThere's an old Yiddish saying, "If one man calls you a donkey, ignore him. If two men call you a donkey, think about it. If three men call you a donkey, buy yourself a saddle."

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pmI'm not finding conversation with you fertile soil for mutual understanding or thought. So rather than bandying allegations back and forth, I'll pass.

Well that lasted all of five minutes.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:14 pmIf I don't get to decide that you misunderstood my words, then who does?

Have you forgotten about gas lighting already?