Philosophy Now Forum

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:49 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:46 am

Greta wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:09 pmA typically manipulative statement. You know the forums have different rules. By the way, unpaid moderators are not paid to put up with insults from the self-entitled.

So according to the forum rules..I am breaking the rules by being insulting. Wow, I guess if the rule to ban insulting posters were an actual real rule then I guess that would be the end of forum posting as we know it. If I'm breaking rules and protocol then why am I still allowed to post?

Hello? Earth to DAM? The OTHER forum that Nick was banned from does not permit insults. He has been banned from other forums with those rules, not just the one that I moderate. This forum has more lassez faire approach - diversity in forums is good, just as it is with people - so members are allowed to be insulting if they wish.

Dontaskme wrote:

Greta wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:09 pmYou might also note that whenever someone engages Nick on ideas he always ignores them if there is a chance for a flame war. I commented on the thread topic but that was, as always, ignored by N because he loves a good fight more than anything.

Nope, that's all in your mind. It's not real.

says Queen Fantasist.

The most recent - and last time - I bothered engaging with you I was determined to say focused and disciplined. You kept trying to avoid me testing your ideas - you just wanted them to stand unchallenged. Then, as I dismantled your flimsy argument piece by piece you started telling me to go away in increasingly hysterical tones as though my disagreement was harassment. At that point I gave up interacting with you - until you joined Nick to gang up on me.

As for your denial, it's laughable, especially from one who claims that nothing is real.

The fact is that Nick ALWAYS criticises. Can you find a single post by him at any time that did not criticise a persons, persons or groups of people, usually "secularists"? That is what he does and he should be called on it.

Greta wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:09 pm

Dontaskme wrote:Best that you mind your own business. After all, none of this actually exists by your reckoning, does it? It's all just an illusion, a product of our imaginations, right? So why are you getting in a flap about defending Ncik? Why not let the two illusions on this illusory forum say illusory things without sticking your non-existent nose into the imaginary situation?

Because that's what's apparently happening...got a problem with that? ..seems you like problems to stick real hard don't you, but then you could try using aTeflon mind, that's very good for unsticking stickyness.

Having you finished preaching to the choir of epipthany now?

Why bother preaching to you? Like Nick, you are entirely closed - a preacher who is only interested in "instructing", not learning or exchange of information.

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:43 am

I should let it go, really. Neither of you have the chops to make it worth wasting the time.

_________

You really do not know how to let go.. do you...that's because your not the one doing the letting go...you cannot stop yourself from doing anything...you are the eternal flow which is unstoppable.

As for not learning, been there done that, bought the T shirt, I'm over myself, it's back to the garden of unlearning the junk and concentrating on what's actually real here.

I am exchanging my unlearning experience...it's not my problem if you find it distasteful and not to your palate.

.

Nick I got your post...but have no more time to spend here today..will be back tomorrow.

The Greta mind is typical of the radical progressive mind I witness here in the states. Anything that questions the sanctity of an aspect of the progressive agenda is considered hate speech. It will always be banned since I ask politically incorrect questions.

Take my supposed hatred for women for example. It refers to my belief in radical feminism to be damaging to the essence of a woman. Is this hatred? Of course not. Anyone familiar with human being and the reason it was divided into male and female will understand the complimentary purpose and
value of essential male and female, yang and yin differences, for life on earth. The Greta mind, rampant now in schools or institutions of psychological child abuse, considers such speculations to be hatred. Philosophy forums being dominated by secularism will always seek to ban what introduces whatever opposes secularism as expressing the love of wisdom or the goal of philosophy. The World doesn't want it. Only individuals need universalism and are willing to annoy the Great Beast to receive conscious help from above necessary to become themselves.

"even if we can't prevent the forces of tyranny from prevailing, we can at least "understand the force by which we are crushed." Simone Weil

Of course they will win. As the conscious influence lessens in the world, tyranny will take its place. However there will always remain a minority who will keep the conscious influence alive for the minority who need it so they can create their own conscious ark to float upon the rising chaos beneath it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:10 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:08 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:56 am
You’re preaching to the already converted.

Converted to what? since you are lampooning the fact that you were created - as are all things - in nature's laboratory, a product of chemistry!

You're constantly telling me stuff I already know.

This is how you originally replied:

Dubious wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:14 pm

...because as a zygote or early stage embryo it's more of an IT regardless of whether it forms into a human or any other animal; it's all chemistry, nothing more.

YOU...

Great, then go and buy the best and most expensive chemistry set on the market ..and make a human being out of it. And then when you've done that, perhaps you can make a hummingbird.

and not just any old hummingbird, one that does all the hummingbird actions.

Look forward to seeing your home-made creatures.

If you already understand that life is chemistry which you keep on saying you already know then what is your post all about; why lampoon what a few posts later you regard as self-evident? Does "making sense" mean anything to your professed enlightenment or haven't you sufficiently mastered the art of being enlightened yet?

Whatever sent you as messenger to reveal truth to the world will tell you what to say next; but based on your seeming psychosis which merely proclaims but never explains, the sender is also the receiver which isn't promising. So much for "knowing yourself", though not knowing in cases like yours and Nicks is probably for the best.

Ever wonder why the majority of those on other forums can't stand the likes of either of you? Consider this a rhetorical question, since the reason for you is obvious; everyone else is an idiot or corrupt by not acknowledging the shining superiority of your self-proclaimed guru-ship which wishes to do nothing more than spread enlightenment on the rancid minds of those who severely question if truth must be eternal to qualify or whether any of your gobbledygook presentations are symbolic of it.

Across the world the likes of you and Nick are a dime a dozen!

Dontaskme

So what do you mean by escapism Nick? ...Who is escaping, and from what are they escaping from, and to where are they escaping to? ..sorry I have to ask you these questions, but I'm only trying to see what you are seeing.

Bye the way Nick, I really do enjoying talking about this subject, so it's great to get another perspective on this.

Nothing to be sorry about. These are meaningful intelligent questions. My problem is to do justice to them. First I have to ask you if you accept Simone Weil's observations on imagination? If you do, is it reasonable to say they indicate escapism or an inability to consciously witness the external world without preconceptions and with emotional impartiality

“To give up our imaginary position as the center, to renounce it, not only intellectually but in the imaginative part of our soul, that means to awaken to what is real and eternal, to see the true light and hear the true silence.” ― Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace

Imagination is always the fabric of social life and the dynamic of history. The influence of real needs and compulsions, of real interests and materials, is indirect because the crowd is never conscious of it.

Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life.

But why is the power of imagination so powerful? Could Simone be right that we lack the power of conscious attention necessary to experience reality rather than imagine it?

Idolatry comes from the fact that, while thirsting for absolute good, we do not possess the power of supernatural attention and we have not the patience to allow it to develop (Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace 53)..

Escapism is the escape from the unpleasant experience of either the anticipated real or illusory. Yet freedom from the confines of the psychological human condition requires consciously experiencing the external world. It is too much to sacrifice which is why people submit to psychological slavery or escapism into imagination

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:04 pm ... hate speech ...

Here is the challenge. I do not believe you can do it.

Try spending an entire day on a forum not criticising anyone. Not secularists, women, abortionists or whatever your latest object of outrage may be.

In short, you are cantankerous miseryguts, always complaining about what other people do. It's incessant. Full of ego and expectations about what other people should be doing, always trying to create straw bad guys to complain about.

It's funny to watch people so obsessed with the rules of engagement, always carping, pushing, complaining, pressuring, lobbying and preaching about all the things that other people do wrong.

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

Don'taskme

The thing is Nick...the person is not doing anything, they only think they are..the person is being done, and thank God for that I say.

Are you open to the possibility that perhaps we are just creatures of reaction but yet have the potential for conscious action?

I appreciate a human being as both their essence or qualities they are born with and a personality, a way of reacting to the world. Our dominant personality is like a machine that lives our life for us. We are not doing anything, Our personality is continually reacting and what we are born with stays passive. Jacob Needleman in his book Lost Christianity explains what I mean:

Acornology

I began my lecture that morning from just this point. There is an innate element in human nature, I argued that can grow and develop only through impressions of truth received in the organism like a special nourishing energy. To this innate element I gave a name - perhaps not a very good name - the "higher unconscious." My aim was to draw an extremely sharp distinction between the unconscious that Freud had identified and the unconscious referred to (though not by that name) in the Christian tradition.

Imagine, I said, that you are a scientist and you have before you the object known as the acorn. Let us further imagine that you have never before seen such an object and that you certainly do not know that it can grow into an oak. You carefully observe these acorns day after day and soon you notice that after a while they crack open and die. Pity! How to improve the acorn? So that it will live longer. You make careful, exquisitely precise chemical analyses of the material inside the acorn and, after much effort, you succeed in isolating the substance that controls the condition of the shell. Lo and behold, you are now in the position to produce acorns which will last far longer than the others, acorns whose shells will perhaps never crack. Beautiful!

The question before us, therefore, is whether or not modern psychology is only a version of acornology.

It seems to me that you believe Man is really God and these projections we call life are just imagination so in reality we are not doing anything.

In contrast I believe that Man on earth is a creature of REACTION with the potential to become a conscious being capable of ACTION and serving a conscious purpose..

IYO is there any way to verify the nature of Man- what we are?

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:51 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:04 pm ... hate speech ...

Here is the challenge. I do not believe you can do it.

Try spending an entire day on a forum not criticising anyone. Not secularists, women, abortionists or whatever your latest object of outrage may be.

In short, you are cantankerous miseryguts, always complaining about what other people do. It's incessant. Full of ego and expectations about what other people should be doing, always trying to create straw bad guys to complain about.

It's funny to watch people so obsessed with the rules of engagement, always carping, pushing, complaining, pressuring, lobbying and preaching about all the things that other people do wrong.

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

So politically incorrect questions concerning the human condition should never be raised. They disturb the peace and deny the joys of people expressing peace, love, and wonderful thoughts claimed to be the purpose of philosophy. What a lovely thought. I have to put that into the suggestion box. We need a new board called the Wonderful Board in which people only exchange wonderful thoughts as a new and improved purpose of philosophy. People will flock to it. Oprah will cry. Nietzsche will return from the grave just to post on it.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:08 am

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:51 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:04 pm ... hate speech ...

Here is the challenge. I do not believe you can do it.

Try spending an entire day on a forum not criticising anyone. Not secularists, women, abortionists or whatever your latest object of outrage may be.

In short, you are cantankerous miseryguts, always complaining about what other people do. It's incessant. Full of ego and expectations about what other people should be doing, always trying to create straw bad guys to complain about.

It's funny to watch people so obsessed with the rules of engagement, always carping, pushing, complaining, pressuring, lobbying and preaching about all the things that other people do wrong.

Let it go. Just let it go. Let yourself, and others, be human. It's the only way you will find any peace or happiness.

So politically incorrect questions concerning the human condition should never be raised. They disturb the peace and deny the joys of people expressing peace, love, and wonderful thoughts claimed to be the purpose of philosophy. What a lovely thought. I have to put that into the suggestion box. We need a new board called the Wonderful Board in which people only exchange wonderful thoughts as a new and improved purpose of philosophy. People will flock to it. Oprah will cry. Nietzsche will return from the grave just to post on it.

Predictable response. I criticise, almost everyone criticises. No problem.

However, when criticising is effectively an obsessive compulsive behaviour that never stops for even a single quiet moment - then there is a problem with the messenger. That is you. If you had as many brain cells as you have words, you would realise that there is a balance to be found in this, as in all things. You appear to not even have a conception of grey areas, with your self-centred echo chamber of a mind.

Most of your threads are standard right wing complaints about abortion, prostitution, atheism and have zero philosophical power or intelligence behind them. The most mindless of fundamentalists hold the same stances as you for the same reasons. Then you wonder why your ideas are dismissed, which leads to you complain about "secularists" again.

Oh well, you seem to enjoy it so go ahead a bleat, whinge and moan about how awful things are to your heart's content. Eric Berne was most familiar with your games, which he titled "Ain't It Awful".

This is played in four significant forms: Parental pastime, Adult pastime, Child pastime and game. In the pastimes there is no denouement or payoff, but much unworthy feeling.

“Nowadays” is the self-righteous, punitive or even vicious Parental pastime. Sociologically it is common among certain types of middle-aged women with small independent incomes. One such woman withdrew from a therapy group when her opening move was met with silence instead of with the excited corroboration she was accustomed to in her social circle.

In this more sophisticated group, accustomed to game analysis, there was a conspicuous lack of togetherness when White remarked: “Speaking of not trusting people, it’s no wonder you can’t trust anyone nowadays. I was looking though the desk of one of my roomers, and you won’t believe what I found".

She knew the answers to most of the current community problems: juvenile delinquency (parents too soft nowadays); divorce (wives without enough to do to keep them busy nowadays); crime (foreigners moving into white neighbourhoods nowadays); and rising prices (businessmen too grasping nowadays). She made it clear that she herself was not soft with her delinquent son, nor with her delinquent tenants.

“Nowadays” is differentiated from idle gossip by its slogan “It’s no wonder.” The opening move may be the same (“They say that Flossie Murgatroyd”), but in “Nowadays” there is direction and closure; an “explanation” may be offered. Idle gossip merely rambles or trails off.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:51 amProjecting the power of the great awakening ideas requires experience and sincerity. These people are rare.

Yes, they are, we're in agreement on that. The problem is that you are a travesty of the power they project. They don't put their minds in solitary confinement, impervious to every valid argument or any that should rightfully be "reasoned upon". That's your method of awakening, thinking in a closet, expounding eternal values and dismissing all that is termed "secular" as something astigmatic to your perceived values if not a downright evil!

What you've never noticed once or given any credence to is that secularism by its very nature is intensely analytical and self-critical completely opposite to your insanely stupid eternal values that proceed from the hyperventilations of a diseased brain; such, if successful, cause more misery than revelation. What has no flexibility eventually breaks...a long established truth!

Having said that, some of the "philosophers" you quote also show the gleam of rot on their temples of wisdom; and why not, they too were ONLY HUMAN speculating on 'Eternal Values' or suchlike and coming up short. This scenario played out more in ancient philosophy, not least in your superhero of the abstract, Plato.

In summary, ideas must be investigated and there for that purpose; not least, to avoid the dictatorship of eternal values, promulgated as required by those who mostly seek power...a distinction you will NEVER understand! If science remains questionable in many of its assumptions, how much more so in philosophy! For the minutely temporal (us) it's unreasonable to the point of delirium in asserting any necessity for or application of unnamed eternal values of which the universe knows nothing or even the planet in whose factory we were formed. Whenever such absolutes are engineered among humans, it defaults to an agenda of self-interest of which theism has been a prime exponent.

Anyways, as per your usual responses to arguments you fail to counter, I expect no other but that these are only my secular prejudices that adamantly refuse to advance to your comprehension of eternal values.

I don't care what you think since there is really nothing there to justify caring about. The only reason I'm responding to you and DontAsk as much as I have during the last few days is the pleasure of shooting at targets so huge I can't miss!

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:30 pm If you already understand that life is chemistry which you keep on saying you already know then what is your post all about; why lampoon what a few posts later you regard as self-evident? Does "making sense" mean anything to your professed enlightenment or haven't you sufficiently mastered the art of being enlightened yet?

Okay, let me explain..you want me to explain...so I'm going to explain..hope you are ready to listen again...here it is again...

I already know life is living itself, only because I know I am not the one living life...I know that I did not make my human body...the personhood one that believes it is the one who exists does not exist else it could be able to re-create itself from scratch...so, this brings us to the notion that no thing made the human body, and is why it cannot be re-created, there is no thing here to re-create...but then at the same time, here we are a fully fledged fully formed walking talking human body...how the heck did that happen? ...we have absolutely no idea really, we really don't know, we only have ideas about ideas of what we want to believe...in truth, there is no life claiming to be living itself. Any claimer is an illusion, that's what I talk about here...it's self evident that there is no self to claim itself, and that claiming is only possible because it's opposite no-claimer is known in the same moment... that's what I am consistently saying here...no one is saying this, it's just a story..it's knowledge, it's conceptual language...prior to conceptual language, nothing is happening. That's all I'm saying, aka no one saying. Reality is real, it is not an illusion..the illusion is the idea there is something here saying this is ''my' body..or this is ''my-self'' ... claiming is the illusion...not reality itself which is unclaimed.


And the idea of enlightenment is not that a person becomes enlightened... that realisation is just more story..there is nothing beyond the human story... including enlightenment...I've repeated this so many times before, and here I am repeating again...no one seems to listen to what's being pointed to...there is simply no one here to claim to be the knower of anything...all knowledge belongs to no one..to claim it belongs to a person is the illusion, that's a fiction...there is only here conscious knowing...which is unclaimed...not claimed. You are consciousness knowing itself as consciousness not as a person. Consciousness works so much more efficiently as a unity rather than in a state of fragmentation which is always doomed to fail or go awry. Smooth synchronisation can happen quite effortlessly when unity is in full swing, when we drop the idea of personal doership and allow the natural flow of life living itself take over.. no action can be forced, what ever you are doing right now is what you are doing, you will always be doing what you are doing right now...not what you think you should be doing or shouldn't be doing...all doing is exactly what is meant to be happening at all times..there is no room for a mistake or an accident.

To know yourself you first have to be present for that knowledge to manifest. And in that knowledge of knowing, comes it's opposite not-knowing, these two aspects of conscious knowing are different sides of the same one reality, they have to exist in the same moment, to know you don't know is the only knowing there is... expressed as and through multiple unique expressive mind/body mechanisms.. all different but grounded in the same one aware consciousness that pervades and embodies them all.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:30 pmWhatever sent you as messenger to reveal truth to the world will tell you what to say next; but based on your seeming psychosis which merely proclaims but never explains, the sender is also the receiver which isn't promising. So much for "knowing yourself", though not knowing in cases like yours and Nicks is probably for the best.

I'm busting a gut here to explain..but it seems to fall on deaf ears, no matter.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:30 pmEver wonder why the majority of those on other forums can't stand the likes of either of you? Consider this a rhetorical question, since the reason for you is obvious; everyone else is an idiot or corrupt by not acknowledging the shining superiority of your self-proclaimed guru-ship which wishes to do nothing more than spread enlightenment on the rancid minds of those who severely question if truth must be eternal to qualify or whether any of your gobbledygook presentations are symbolic of it.

Across the world the likes of you and Nick are a dime a dozen!

I've also mentioned a few times how the presence that is self-evident expressing itself as and through the body mind mechanism that happens to claim itself as an identity called a human being is very precious, and it's very beautiful...the idiots I am referring to is when there is the mistaken belief that the person is the one who is conscious, this is known as claiming aka this is ''my'' consciousness....this imho is idiotic...it's not meant to be taken personally...because what you actually are is pure presence which is a total mystery even to itself...and that's what makes it amazing and precious..it's just here, and it does not claim any copyright or ownership...it's absolute free unconditional love...expressing itself freely at all times, even expressing itself as a murderer or a robber, or a rapist..it's all free to do so, because no personal one is doing any of it...this presence belongs to no one, it is no one doing it all to itself only.

Well now, I've explained this many times before...and I will probably have to explain again and again and again, that's what happens when new knowledge is introduced, it is not recognised at first, until the aha moment of yes, I see now...these words are just a pointing back to the unclaimed true nature of nondual life living itself.

We instinctively recognise this message, because it's what we are in essence...it's our awakened self..the sleeping self is the one that forgets it's true nature.

.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:04 pm The Greta mind is typical of the radical progressive mind I witness here in the states. Anything that questions the sanctity of an aspect of the progressive agenda is considered hate speech. It will always be banned since I ask politically incorrect questions.

What I find so laughable and ironic is that the ones who attempt to debunk the spiritual mind-set who are just wanting to express a different perspective in life are ridiculed as being full of absolute garbage and delusional brainwashing thinking - and then go on to call these people a cult who's only interest is to deceive as many gullible people as they possibly can with their holier than thou I know more than you and this is what you should know attitudes. And make heaps of cash in the process to boot.

Are the same ones that set up the educational systems where children who are the most creative free expressions of pure love are locked up for 6 hours a day and are force fed nothing of any relevance whatsoever stifling their instinctive desire to be running free and wild in nature..and then also set up the thought police and the politically correct policies and call this our collective society and woe betide anyone who thinks outside the box and has the courage to walk in the opposite direction to the majority who choose to follow societies impositions indoctrinations and the status quo of ''this is how we do it'' mentality.

The debunkers are debunking absolutely nothing here except their own misguided projected knowledge that has been handed over to them from those who came before them ..and then they have the audacity to call the spiritual ones the parrots who are only parroting what the masters before them knew..but they simply cannot see their own hypocrisy ...they do not see that it's all the same one consciousness expressing itself from both sides of the nondual coin...so to speak..

.

The human mind opposing it's complimentary opposite self is the insane one.

The only sane one here is the one that sees though it's own bullshit.. through the illusions of ''opposing story telling'' and to see that it is always and ever the same one consciousness opposing itself dreaming difference in the world where there is none.

.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:08 am
In summary, ideas must be investigated and there for that purpose; not least, to avoid the dictatorship of eternal values, promulgated as required by those who mostly seek power...a distinction you will NEVER understand!

I think there is a misunderstanding here about what 'eternal value' actually means.

I think it has more to do with the non-ownership of any value...non-ownership means the value has no one that can dictate how that value should play out. If you are going to have owned values then obviously they are going to clash and differ with other owned values...this is what dictatorship means, not the way you think it means..dictatorship is only possible where there is a claimer of such a concept.

Eternal values are the intrinsic natural knowing of what feels right and what feels wrong in the moment, unclaimed, the body always holds to these eternal values in that it will always warn you there is something not quite right...no thing owns these values, they are just part of the fabric of intelligent life that knows how to live. Life knows how to live period, it has no copyright over this knowing, or instruction manual telling it how to live or what to do next, it just knows without knowing...it's spontaneous instant knowing in the moment...which is always and ever now.

So say for instance my value means that life is a bucket of shit, and I don't give a fuck about anyone but myself...and then there is someone else who's value is to care about the world and everything else....so owning our own invented personal values would always be undermined by their rival value holders, and society imho would not really work efficiently ..people cannot live by such erratic principles..they would always be living a life in a tense and stressful state...and this is not a natural way to function ...life does not function like that really at all...animals do not live that way..animals and the rest of nature live by the eternal natural intelligence that flows effortlessly through their beings...their tension is not like human tension, an animals tension is always in the moment as a natural survival instinct and then is instantly let go of in the moment immediately after any threat or danger is over..they do not hang on to their tension like humans do believing it is their tension... humans believe it is their tension, so it is tricked into sticking around.. and is the sole cause of all dis-ease in the human body....holding on to energies that want to be free is creating more of that energy that wants to be free....everything is a manifestation of the same energy manifesting as tension or fear or any emotion be it sadness or depression or joy or whatever, these energies are part of what life is, they're all part of the same dance that wants to be free, not owned. The body is always working hard to clear poisons from it's system constantly, this includes negative energies and unwanted feelings...let them go, they don't belong to you..



And this is what Nick is trying to point out I think.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:08 am
So politically incorrect questions concerning the human condition should never be raised. They disturb the peace and deny the joys of people expressing peace, love, and wonderful thoughts

No nick, you should never talk about politically incorrect things like that, those are demonic thoughts, we must quickly bury them under the carpet and hope they never escape or re-surface and show their ugly face ever again. .exposing the true nature of the identified self.. this is absolute BS when the human believes those energetical thoughts belong to them, that they believe they personally own.

Of course we all know our natural state is that of the baby state of pure love and innocence and contentment and joy etc...etc.. but your not allowed to feel those naturally occurring states Nick...you have to be a cantankerous miserygut instead, even though you would never imagine those thoughts for yourself, I mean who in their right state of mind would go around telling other people they are a miserable cantankerous person, in the context of meeting another person and that person says hello how are you today, and you reply by saying I am a cantankerous miseryguts ....you just wouldn't say that about yourself or choose that option... and yet it is okay to tell other people that they are a cantankerous miseryguts when they would never admit that to themself.

This is the sickness of the mis-identified human mind.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:01 pm Hi Dontaskme

First let me begin by admitting that I don’t know who Byron Katies is. Oh well, one can’t know everything.

I wasn't familiar with ACIM until you told me about it..I looked it up and found a knowledge that I already knew ..it's like when ever you read something like that it feels like you've known this knowledge all your life..there must be a reason for that Nick.
Byron Katie does a similar thing to ACIM..
I though she was the founder of the ACIM organisation but then discovered she's not but is doing something similar called the WORK...the ideas in BK's work and the CIM's are practically identical as well.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:01 pmMy conception of God is ineffable pure consciousness outside the limitations of time and space as Plotinus describes the ONE. It is the source of the universe existing within God as levels of reality, one existing within the other or a hierarchy of intentions. From this point of view creatures Man on earth does not “know” the Source. We see and feel its effects by what Plotinus calls dunamis. Creatures cannot be God but we can escape what we are. All of these speculations would be unnecessary if it weren’t for the question of life after the physical death. Is the potential for Man’s conscious evolution a reality? Man’s being evolved on earth to its physical potential. Is conscious evolution possible? Can Man’s physical evolution continue into conscious evolution? Without self knowledge, conscious evolution is impossible since we don’t know what we are and the world doesn’t want it.

So where you are concerned with “beingness,” Relative qualities of being as described in the Great Chain of Being are essential for me to make sense of universal purpose

When we deny our universal purpose to consciously experience reality and instead assert that we are God, it is demonic. Satan did the same claiming he was God.

Where the ONE Is, the cyclical process of existence takes place. The process of existence taking place within the ONE, within NOW is both real and necessary.

"A test of what is real is that it is hard and rough. Joys are found in it, not pleasure. What is pleasant belongs to dreams." ~ Simone Weil
-- Gravity and Grace

Yes, I agree with all that. ...

But then my thoughts about consciousness go a bit like this...I think that the evolution of the body was a necessary intention of consciousness to build a vehicle for it's infinite expression to become a reality. And that devolution is happening in the same moment as evolution in that consciousness is separating from itself and returning to itself simultaneously, albeit in an illusory sense in the dream of separation...in that it dreams it gives birth to itself just to die to itself, and it dies to itself just to give birth to itself...but this is only in the dream story of course...consciousness can't die because it wasn't ever born, it's only born as the material substance the body which then dies...have you heard of the eternal return?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:01 pmPeople like Simone are seekers of truth willing to sacrifice dreams to experience this pearl of great price. I am still unwilling to carry my cross. This is why I admire Simone. She was more of a Man in the real sense of the word than I am.

Not familiar with Simone here, but I do resonate with her ideas...in fact anyone who talks about awakening is okay with me, I already know what they are all talking about in general, it's just that they all have their own unique way of putting it into words.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:01 pmThe one universal constant is change. The universe is experiencing constant change. So what is real? It is the process which sustains the universe. We are conditioned to define reality by results. But actually reality is experienced consciously as a process. That is why this question of infanticide is misunderstood. We accept or oppose results (a newborn) while being completely oblivious of honoring the process of existence.

I totally agree. It seems though that what appears to be real is always changing, so the real is not as real as first thought, real implies non-changing...but then there is a shift that happens in life where there is seeing through the change to the seeing that there is here only ever this non-changing change, where perception and everything else perceived becomes real, not imagined.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:01 pmACIM wants to create its own reality – its own “I Am” by imagination and denial. It leads to the destruction of the being potential for a given quality of relative consciousness acquired through self knowledge.

I see, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by create it's own ''I Am'' by imagination and denial...this is why this topic is so difficult to grasp for the mind that has it's own unique ideas about consciousness and what it is..can you see that trying to see from another persons view point when you've already got your own ideas about this .. can be a difficult task? I really don't know what you mean in that last statement...but I would like to know if you don't mind explaining in another way..?

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