Infanticide

[Greta]

Can anyone find a post here or anwhere else which projects hatred from me? No, since they don't exist.

You are infamous on this forum for your hatred of secularists, atheists, women, "snowflakes" and left-wingers.

I have never met a person in real life that hated non-religious people as much as you do. My sister was a fundamentalist and not even her crowd hated secularists as you do. Actually, they didn't hate secularists; they just usually avoided them.

If you won't own your hate, it will always own you.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Infanticide

the crime of killing a child within a year of birth.

I’ve learned that many secularists on this site do not believe in objective eternal values. How can there be if there is no Source of existence within which eternal values originate? Consequently we either create our own subjective values or allow the state to enforce its subjective values by law.

From this perspective is there any reason to be against infanticide? If there is no objective value, there can be no objective difference in value of a late term fetus and a week old baby. They are both equally dependent creatures with no objective right to life. So if the mother doesn’t want it, why shouldn’t she kill it? She has created her own reality which states that this week old creature has no objective worth. Is she wrong? How can she be if respect for life as an eternal value is just imagination?

Should subjective societal laws be changed to allow a woman to kill her one week old baby since it lacks objective eternal value and is now just an inconvenience? If not, why not?

I sometimes think that people like you are just quite insane. You crazies act as though you need to look outside yourself to find moral truths, that someone else has to answer the questions for you, that you're merely a parrot, which is ridiculous, as it's inside each one of us. It's as simple as the golden rule refined to account for those things philosophers have found incomplete within it's wisdom. It's beauty can easily be understood by simply learning of how many cultures throughout history have coined similar axioms. It's more universal amongst humans than probably any other axiom. I mean is it really any wonder. The desire to survive, survival of the fittest, animal autonomic systems, etc!

All anyone has to do is ask if they would have liked to have been killed at birth, to answer that question. Then consider the complicated fact that if they had been murdered then they wouldn't be capable of asking that question in the first place. That alone could take several weeks of thought to completely navigate all the permutations of reason. But ones responsibility doesn't stop there. So as to answer the question as honestly as possible, one would have to conduct a survey to find the percentage of those alive that would have rather been aborted or murdered at birth versus those that would have rather lived. Only then could the proper recourse stand firmly in front of them. I'm betting that a survey would indicate that most would rather be here alive than not, so her resolve would be clear. If the question was due to her ineptitude or unwillingness to be a mother, then adoption is surely the answer. To kill for the sake of killing alone is quite insane indeed, instead one should kill oneself, if killing is the desire as it also makes one extremely brave and/or nuts.

There is nothing eternal unless entropy is a falsehood. Instead it's probably just another of man's many words that no longer apply in this largely enlightened time. Forget the past, except for it's 'valid' lessons, of what not to do, then all that is left is what one should do. Only now matters, as for us, it's the only thing that truly exists.

Archaic religions have absolutely no place in modern human life, except for their place in the history of philosophy. Only as some of the stepping stones that have gotten us to this place in understanding the past and current human condition.

Make way for the new religion, the one that is steeped in truth, (not lies), that which unfolds as our science uncovers it.

[Nick_A]

Everyone has missed the idea which puts the question of infanticide into a universal human as opposed to pragmatic societal perspective.

The universal human perspective respects and values the balanced cycles of life. The pragmatic societal perspective only is aware of parts of the cycle supporting and attacking parts of a cycle which serves its subjective perspective. Where the universal perspective supports life as a whole and is even capable of a love of life itself, the societal pragmatic perspective loves and hates what suits it pragmatic aims.

The life of animal Man on earth is a cycle beginning at conception and concluding at death. Where social pragmatism values socially defined parts of the cycle, the universal human perspective values the whole cycle.

The universalist doesn’t consider the newborn more important than the nine month old fetus. The universalist values the entire cycle between conception and death. Social pragmatism denies this. Where the woman considers herself a universalist would value the sex act itself the secular woman will just say it doesn’t matter. Just have abortions. But the important thing is to express yourself and prove you are equal to a man.

There can be no objective argument against infanticide for the sake of convenience for social pragmatism since it lacks a universal perspective – an emotional recognition of meaning outside the domain of Plato’s cave. An objective love of life itself requires a “feeling” for its meaning, purpose, and objective value as a universal process. This is meaningless for social pragmatism which relies on subjective interpretations of the meaning and purpose of life to justify self importance.

[Nick_A]

Can anyone find a post here or anwhere else which projects hatred from me? No, since they don't exist.

You are infamous on this forum for your hatred of secularists, atheists, women, "snowflakes" and left-wingers.

I have never met a person in real life that hated non-religious people as much as you do. My sister was a fundamentalist and not even her crowd hated secularists as you do. Actually, they didn't hate secularists; they just usually avoided them.

If you won't own your hate, it will always own you.

Do you know what the word hate means. I'll tell you:

"intense or passionate dislike."

I discuss ideas while you discuss people.

Secularism is a world view built upon the imagination created by the human condition. Why hate which is unfortunate. I take the Simone Weil view of atheism. There is nothing to hate. IMO it is a result of the human condition.

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith; and in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be an atheist with that part of myself which is not made for God. Among those in whom the supernatural part of themselves has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong.
- Simone Weil, Faiths of Meditation; Contemplation of the divine
the Simone Weil Reader, edited by George A. Panichas (David McKay Co. NY 1977) p 417

Granted, there are women I like and women I don't but how is this a hatred for women? This is just silly.

I don't hate snowflakes; I feel sorry for them. Just the thought of me being indoctrinated into a mindless snowflake sends shivers up my spine. I feel bad for them. They are being robbed of their ability to think and feel as a human being. I feel compassion for what they are enduring, not hatred.

You are fighting against self imposed interpretations which are killing you inside. Is it really preferable to learning to impartially discuss ideas?

[Nick_A]

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Make way for the new religion, the one that is steeped in truth, (not lies), that which unfolds as our science uncovers it.

Simone Weil wrote:

"To restore to science as a whole, for mathematics as well as psychology and sociology, the sense of its origin and veritable destiny as a bridge leading toward God---not by diminishing, but by increasing precision in demonstration, verification and supposition---that would indeed be a task worth accomplishing."

I’ll put my money on Simone

[Arising_uk]

What's the problem? We know it was just a worthless organism. Why worry how this baby died? Admit that it was meaningless and get on with the more important issues of your daily life. ...

Are you worrying about how this baby died or are you just using it's death to support your agenda? And why does it matter as your 'eternal values' have this fate as that baby's karma and the actions of the mother as her karma so they chose their fate and what point in opposing, worrying or challenging this eternal dharma?
p.s.
Have you thought that this baby may have been stillborn to someone ignorant of the help available to them in burying such?

[Dubious]

Dubious wrote

"When does an "it" become a human being?"

When it begins to look human; do you need a lesson in biology?

What does it mean "to look human?" Since it isn't an objective standard, looking human is a subjective determination. A very convenient method to justify genocides. Perhaps Jews didn't look sufficiently human to the Nazis which justified the Holocaust

You are definitely one sick hombre. What you have made beyond abundantly clear by your countless posts that arguing with a disease won't ever cure it or annul it. Is this what all your "eternal values" has done to you! What you really need to groove yourself back to some sense of sanity is a couch, a shrink and a couple of years of therapy

[Dontaskme]

I discuss ideas while you discuss people.

I know you do, but some people don't see that...they only see what they want to see. If they did not recognise your words in their own self they would have no objection. It's their own ''self thoughts'' that they hate... not you. One cannot get angry about an issue unless they them self believe it to be true.

Your thoughts are just reminding them of their own inner demons, but by lashing out at you saves them from dealing with their own messed up mind. They'd rather just sweep issues under the carpet and act as if they didn't exist. Speaking up the way you do is the way of the warrior, you have a brave heart exposing yourself to the lions den. You are strong because you seek change for the betterment of all mankind, stay in that mind-set always.. there is nothing wrong with how you choose to express yourself. Remember how Jesus was ridiculed and tortured...always remember, you have grace and providence on your side. I personally have never been offended by anything you say because you expose the lies, and not many people are willing to stand up and do that...apart from that guy Alex Jones who broadcasts a daily youtube of himself ranting on about all the corruption in the world..I mean he doesn't care does he, he's such an intelligent man, and so are you.

It's saddening when ideas cannot be discussed with people who seem to be so lost in their indoctrinated mind sets..it's like we better not talk about those things deemed taboo - no that's of no service to me..I want to be the author of my own life, I don't want to adhere to eternal values thank you very much....that's what's happening to the human, it's saddening, I totally agree with you.

I don't hate snowflakes; I feel sorry for them. Just the thought of me being indoctrinated into a mindless snowflake sends shivers up my spine. I feel bad for them. They are being robbed of their ability to think and feel as a human being. I feel compassion for what they are enduring, not hatred.

You are fighting against self imposed interpretations which are killing you inside. Is it really preferable to learning to impartially discuss ideas?

I really hear you Nick...but it will fall on deaf ears. Those with ears will hear, those with eyes will see, many are called, few are chosen...Your compassion is clearly palpable from another awakened being here.

But then, the snowflakes have been born into this mess, they have no idea of what they do, they are walking their own paths in life, and they have to find their own truths, all we can do is be there for them to catch them if and when they fall.

[Dontaskme]

Must remember not to mow the lawn. Wouldn't want to tempt the universe into collapsing.

Clueless.

Does that also include the microbes that can eat you alive as in flesh eating disease? What about the lives of those who make the lives of others miserable? Them too?

Every thing dies, get over it, nothing belongs to you.

Only things die, not the not-a-thing in which they appear...as long as you identify yourself as a thing you will lose every time...get it.

Think on these things, think about the divine pleasure of the finest melted chocolate exploding it's silky smooth sensation inside your mouth.

Too much negative attention can cause dis-ease.

Equilibrium at ease ..discernment is the key..let the dead bury the dead.

.

[Dontaskme]

You are infamous on this forum for your hatred of secularists, atheists, women, "snowflakes" and left-wingers.

I have never met a person in real life that hated non-religious people as much as you do. My sister was a fundamentalist and not even her crowd hated secularists as you do. Actually, they didn't hate secularists; they just usually avoided them.

If you won't own your hate, it will always own you.

But it's your belief too, otherwise you'd not be getting all flared up and angry at yourself...do you not see how powerful beliefs actually are?

By believing others you are endorsing and permitting a believed reality to exist in you....you are literally re-creating the scenario and manifesting it into your own psyche and projecting into the world out-side of you. The world of apparent ''other's''...You are literally doing the same as Nick.

Without the belief, nothing is happening, have you ever thought about that? that's how powerful the human mind and it's beliefs are. It's all projection...a story told by a fool signifying nothing. We can create nice stories or bad stories, but we cannot have one without the other...but it's what you choose to believe in that really counts here.

All this would have ended except that I banned him from the other forum for being abusive and insulting.

And look at what you have now said to him...in above quote.. Why are you insulting and abusing Nick now? Do you not see the blatant hypocrisy ?

Owning up to our yown abusive behaviour is the first sign you are becoming intelligent.

We're all simply talking about ideas...can we change our beliefs or not...no one is doing this...there are here only beliefs about beliefs, and ideas about ideas..give the character of expression some slack for goodness sake.

.

[Dontaskme]

Archaic religions have absolutely no place in modern human life, except for their place in the history of philosophy. Only as some of the stepping stones that have gotten us to this place in understanding the past and current human condition.

Make way for the new religion, the one that is steeped in truth, (not lies), that which unfolds as our science uncovers it.

Without the thought ''religion'' what is there here?

The place we are in now is the same place we have always been in...where else do we happen?

Archaic religions have absolutely no place in modern human life, except for their place in the history of philosophy. Only as some of the stepping stones that have gotten us to this place in understanding the past and current human condition.

You are literally creating the idea of ''religion'' with your incessant belief there is such a thing that exists...anything with the fa'cult'y for thought aka the mind has an imagination...any thing imagined automatically becomes a cult...stop creating cults.

And stop believing in these cult stories ..simple isn't it?

[Dontaskme]

...because as a zygote or early stage embryo it's more of an IT regardless of whether it forms into a human or any other animal; it's all chemistry, nothing more.

Great, then go and buy the best and most expensive chemistry set on the market ..and make a human being out of it. And then when you've done that, perhaps you can make a hummingbird.

and not just any old hummingbird, one that does all the hummingbird actions.

Look forward to seeing your home-made creatures.

[Dubious]

Must remember not to mow the lawn. Wouldn't want to tempt the universe into collapsing.

Clueless.

Does that also include the microbes that can eat you alive as in flesh eating disease? What about the lives of those who make the lives of others miserable? Them too?

Every thing dies, get over it, nothing belongs to you.
Amazing, I get that feeling as well! That means there's nothing to get over!

Only things die, not the not-a-thing in which they appear...as long as you identify yourself as a thing you will lose every time...get it.
Not really...or maybe YOU don't get it with all the stupid mystical garbage borrowed, of course, from that cesspool of wisdom called The East.

It doesn't matter what either of us GET! When I croak and when you croak we'll ALL be in the same place called Nowhere, figuratively speaking, without knowing a single person, place or event encountered in your life...including yourself and even what life is or was. I don't doubt that for many that can actually be a blessing!

Btw, the main scriptures I have massive respect for are the Vedas and the Upanishads which are commentaries on the Vedas; to complete the trinity of the sublime the inclusion of the Bhagavad Gita is likewise indispensable.

Think on these things, think about the divine pleasure of the finest melted chocolate exploding it's silky smooth sensation inside your mouth.
...and then what?

Too much negative attention can cause dis-ease.
...and too many illusions may cause insanity.

Equilibrium at ease ..discernment is the key..let the dead bury the dead.
I'm quite certain that in ALL of history the dead never buried someone else who just died...and it wouldn't be good for business either!
.

[Dubious]

...because as a zygote or early stage embryo it's more of an IT regardless of whether it forms into a human or any other animal; it's all chemistry, nothing more.

Great, then go and buy the best and most expensive chemistry set on the market ..and make a human being out of it.

I got news for you. That requires nature's laboratory not an expensive chemical set and YOU are a creature of that process along with everything else that's alive. After your time is over, if not cremated, the process continues by "decomposing" you. Live with it!

[Dontaskme]

...because as a zygote or early stage embryo it's more of an IT regardless of whether it forms into a human or any other animal; it's all chemistry, nothing more.

Great, then go and buy the best and most expensive chemistry set on the market ..and make a human being out of it.

I got news for you. That requires nature's laboratory not an expensive chemical set and YOU are a creature of that process along with everything else that's alive. After your time is over, if not cremated, the process continues by "decomposing" you. Live with it!

You’re preaching to the already converted.