Philosophy Now Forum

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:53 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:48 am The question is a nonsense question, as a product of the imagination, a fantasy can never be dealt with as a proper subject of a philosophy forum. One knows ahead of time it is going to be unproductive. I'm not sure everyone here understands how meaning comes about, nor what further one could say about it. The religious at a philosophical forum rather degrades it, it is always a no-starter.

Atheists spend more time quizzing about God on this forum than the theists.

BTW: I have provided beyond reasonable doubt evidence of the existence of God here: viewtopic.php?t=41324

Of course popeye, you need to be reasonable and actually read the argument from start to finish to have an opinion.

So, because "andrew seas" sees something 'special' with words, then this is so-called 'evidence' of God's existence. Let 'us' not forget that when some people see a tree that this is 'evidence' of God's existence, to them as well.

Are you aware "attofishpi" that what you consider here is 'beyond reasonable doubt' is what another may well call 'evidence' of one with 'delusional thinking' or of one with 'delusional views'?

After all when some thing of 'God' It comes with a connotation to some of having a definition of being the Creator of all. Whereas, a definition of 'your God's is that 'it' was created, and is being controlled by, other beings. Among other definitions I will add.

So, 'your beyond reasonable doubt evidence' is not even in relation to what others are even considering and perceiving here. That is; of a God that was created by something else.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 3:36 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 9:27 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 8:56 pm

FFS popeye - The ultimate science we have is physics - IT is the measure that GIVES any "meaning" to these "all things"/

Biology is the 3rd tier (after chemistry)

Your conclusion that absent of consciousness the world (*lets state the universe*) is utterly meaningless requires you to provide that CONSCIOUSNESS has meaning,

Go ahead.

What I think you will find is that "popeye1945" is just stating is that only considering/thinking beings create 'meaning', or create 'the meaning of things'. Therefore, and please correct me if I am wrong here "popeye1945", if thinking beings were never to come to exist or just stopped existing, then 'meaning' would also not have come to exist, or would also just stop existing.

In other words, only when you biological thinking beings, called human beings, 'give, or create, 'meaning', then and only then 'does meaning' exists.

Basically yes you've got it, but it is not particular to human beings.

I said and meant 'human beings' only in the sense that as far as you human beings are aware of and know you are the only thing that gives 'meaning' to things. This, of course, does not mean that you are the only ones.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 3:36 am What the meaning is, is not about the reality that is out there but about what is out there and its effects or its alterations on the body.

All effects on all bodies 'just happen', but how 'you', 'people', interpret those effects, those 'bodily experiences', is a whole completely other matter

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 3:36 am So, reality is only apparent,

But, 'Reality' is what 'it' is. This cannot be disputed. It is how 'you', 'people', interpret things, which is up for discussion here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 3:36 am it is not about knowing the true object but is a biological readout of how it affects you.

Okay, that is how 'you', the one inside 'that human body' has come to see and view things.

But, to 'this one' here, there is no 'out there', as every thing is affecting every thing, all as the One Everything.

Also, if 'it ' is, supposedly, not knowing about the 'true object', then what is 'reality' about, exactly, to you?

Why and how has 'that body' been affected in 'a way', for 'you', inside 'that body,' to 'now' see or believe that 'reality' is ' not about knowing the so-called 'true object' '?

In other words what do 'you' believe that 'your reality' is the one true and right one only?

I know, exactly, how and why what 'this body' experiences effected and affects the thoughts and thinking within 'this body', but then again, because of what 'this body' has already experienced I have already come to know how the Mind and the brain work, fundamentally.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:47 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:00 pm God, theology, has become a "club" concept. You're either a voluntary member or not. For those who are not, no diminishment is felt regarding meaning, purpose or anything else; life goes on without any god references applied to it. God only exists as a psychological knot in one's psyche, too simplistic to be of any importance to philosophy.

Pfff wow. Consideration of God is the key to what philosophy means: Love of Wisdom.

Whether or not God exists is the greatest question civilised wo/man has in the back of their minds.

It's impossible to rinse a god from the human brain and expect it to actually exist, a neuronal construct reified into Being. The entire pantheon of gods, from wherever or whenever, have had their home exclusively within a special class of the hominid brain. Nowhere else is there a god or gods to be found. Not least, I have no idea why love of wisdom would mandate a god to exist except as pure abstraction of a kind philosophized by the mind of Spinoza.

For myself, any question, whatever its nature, attempting to resolve the unresolvable is not worth pondering. Perennially picking petals off flowers ridicules whatever wisdom is supposed to be! What's more important is trying to understand why so many still believe in some personal god, relative to their existence or afterlife, still existing as a neurotic remnant embedded in the brain.

Our historical perspectives on god have transformed from what once may have been an expansive view of association with some divine creator or final arbiter of human destiny into a major and disruptive limitation going forward. The main problem with most god conceptions, nearly everyone who so believes consolidates the idea so much within themselves as to become a major fixture of their identity nearly impossible to eradicate.

Furthermore, when one examines the history of the human race, god and religion has done nothing but make it worse.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 7:21 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:47 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:00 pm God, theology, has become a "club" concept. You're either a voluntary member or not. For those who are not, no diminishment is felt regarding meaning, purpose or anything else; life goes on without any god references applied to it. God only exists as a psychological knot in one's psyche, too simplistic to be of any importance to philosophy.

Pfff wow. Consideration of God is the key to what philosophy means: Love of Wisdom.

Whether or not God exists is the greatest question civilised wo/man has in the back of their minds.

It's impossible to rinse a god from the human brain and expect it to actually exist, a neuronal construct reified into Being.

Actually, this "Being" is impossible to rinse from the brain whether a human had never heard of such a concept or (as most) have.

It permeates ALL of matter.

Dubious wrote:The entire pantheon of gods, from wherever or whenever, have had their home exclusively within a special class of the hominid brain. Nowhere else is there a god or gods to be found. Not least, I have no idea why love of wisdom would mandate a god to exist except as pure abstraction of a kind philosophized by the mind of Spinoza.

Well, I've mentioned earlier somewhere on this thread that I don't think belief or disbelief in God matters much either way regarding drawing some 'meaning' to life.

However, since being made aware of this "Being" and its power over all of matter (pantheism\panentheism) the pursuit of WISDOM to me is certainly to hang out with the sages and the man himself Christ in HEAVEN mode (here on Earth - it is a mode, not a different place) - no longer having to worry about much at all really, just observe and learn with them for so long as entropy will permit.

Is that not a WISE pursuit?

Dubious wrote:For myself, any question, whatever its nature, attempting to resolve the unresolvable is not worth pondering.

What is not unresolvable? My pondering now is WHAT is God? How did it form?

Dubious wrote:Perennially picking petals off flowers ridicules whatever wisdom is supposed to be! What's more important is trying to understand why so many still believe in some personal god, relative to their existence or afterlife, still existing as a neurotic remnant embedded in the brain.

Oh I know only too well how neurotic God can affect the brian brain - God is more personal than you under_stand.

Dubious wrote:Our historical perspectives on god have transformed from what once may have been an expansive view of association with some divine creator or final arbiter of human destiny into a major and disruptive limitation going forward. The main problem with most god conceptions, nearly everyone who so believes consolidates the idea so much within themselves as to become a major fixture of their identity nearly impossible to eradicate.

Furthermore, when one examines the history of the human race, god and religion has done nothing but make it worse.

Up until the advent and invent of Islam, I disagree.

Unlike all world religions where certain people within certain cultures have been made aware of this Divine God and formed many beautiful religions, Islam was formed by a false prophet.

The only time Mohammad had ANY Divine revelation was upon his death bed. He claimed earlier in the Koran that if he was a false prophet he would surely have his aorta cut. After being poisoned by a Jewish lady (that told him why she poisoned him - he had slaughtered her entire family), he stated to Aisha (one of his many wives - the one he married at her age of 6 and his of 52) - he stated "I feel as though my aorta is being severed" -shortly before he died.

The Divine God I know exists, that has the power over all matter CLEARLY forced his hand - made him feel as if the aorta being cut and forced him to admit that he indeed was a liar all along.

So.

All the beautiful Churches\Cathedrals throughout the world built by masons out of love for their faith in a man of love. Places to celebrate marriage, and for solace reflection in times of mourning and strife. None of that would exist if it weren't for the main religion of the West - Christianity.

I came across this lovely blog about 'meaning' in life.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog ... -pointless

Gods are man's images of perfection, for like gods perfection does not exist. We may wish gods and indeed perfection existed but in fact, they do not. If something in the world was perfect, it would perish, for that which is perfect would remain unchanged and that which remains unchanged perishes from this world because it did not adapt/evolve with the ever-changing world. So, the meaning of god is perfection and derived through the imagination and not the senses. Meanings in general are the experiences of the body, gods, and perfection that have no reality outside of the imagination are simply entertainment/fantasy.