Philosophy Now Forum

Why is a "rich fantastic life" the qualifier of Free-Will, for you?

I don't believe you're wrong necessarily—I'm just curious why that is your ideal?

With regard to my, personal will, I agree with the Determinists in the sense that I enjoy to remove all constrictions and foreign constraints. I do want to be 'free from' political expectations, for example. But that's half the puzzle, as I've repeated. What is the other half? What am I 'free to' do? I don't always have a good grasp on this because it requires larger degrees of self-consciousness and awareness. Ideals come and go. Values rise and fall. My interests in life are varied. I enjoy the mystery of biology, physics, technology, science, philosophy, etc. I've never been able to pick only one focus, one view. This lack of decision has prevented from becoming a Physicist, an Engineer, a Doctor, per se.

I like them all.

I know that my purpose in life is significantly different than everybody else's.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:52 pm I intend you to convince you of Free-Will. Since you are particularly resistant, more so than FJ or harbal or belinda or any other Determinist,

Again, I'm not a determinist.

then that signals to me that you have a convictions holding you back.

That's certainly a convenient hypothesis. It is just another claim in a string of claims that you don't back up.

I didn't say this would be easy or quick, quite the contrary.

I have never assumed this would be simple and easy. This being the whole process. But that you could give examples of what you mean, I figured that might be easy.

You demand that I "soar",

That is false. I never demanded that you soar. I have asked you many times what that means with specific examples. It seems very hard for you to explain what you mean.

This is pretty basic communication stuff. I ask questions and try to understand what you mean. You tell me lots of things about me but avoid answering. You even call a question an instance of me imposing limits on you.

Again, you don't really seem prepared to have a discussion with adults.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:13 pm Why is a "rich fantastic life" the qualifier of Free-Will, for you?

Please re-read my recent posts. I don't know how to more clearly point out that I was paraphrasing what YOU were saying, not making an assertion about my theory of free will.

I don't believe you're wrong necessarily—I'm just curious why that is your ideal?

It's not.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:17 pm With regard to my, personal will, I agree with the Determinists in the sense that I enjoy to remove all constrictions and foreign constraints. I do want to be 'free from' political expectations, for example. But that's half the puzzle, as I've repeated. What is the other half? What am I 'free to' do? I don't always have a good grasp on this because it requires larger degrees of self-consciousness and awareness. Ideals come and go. Values rise and fall. My interests in life are varied. I enjoy the mystery of biology, physics, technology, science, philosophy, etc. I've never been able to pick only one focus, one view. This lack of decision has prevented from becoming a Physicist, an Engineer, a Doctor, per se.

I like them all.

I know that my purpose in life is significantly different than everybody else's.

Perhaps it's to be vague and allusive and a bit solipsistic.

You should provide 'adult' conversation before demanding it from others.

You barely address the OP, the statements I've already made, and have already demonstrated multiple times that you have significant trouble following threads and conversations in progress.

Why else would I need to repeat your own words back to you? Keep up, small fries.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:20 pmI was paraphrasing what YOU were saying,

No you weren't.

Nowhere did I mention or even hint at the notion of a "good life, well lived". That was YOUR presumption entirely. Own it.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:23 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:20 pmI was paraphrasing what YOU were saying,

No you weren't.

Nowhere did I mention or even hint at the notion of a "good life, well lived". That was YOUR presumption entirely. Own it.

I don't think either of us have used the phrase 'good life, well lived', so I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I don't think I've used that pairing of phrases.

I'm going to try to help with something really quite basic....
When you make vague statements, like those in the OP and in many posts in this thread, people, some of them, are likely to do two things to try to understand what you mean....
1) ask questions - I'm sorry if you think this means they are imposing limits on you. I can only assure asking questions doesn't do this.
2) paraphrase what you have said to see if they understand. You examples were mental examples, thoughts, in relation to soaring and doing the impossible. Those were the examples, one with a link, that you gave me. It seemed like soaring and doing the impossible had to do with speculating and thinking, given your examples.

Here's what an adult does in that situation.
You say, Yes, that's correct. or...
No, your interpretation isn't correct. Here's why.
and you actually write and clarify, so the other person understands what you meant.

Or, that's partially correct, but I view free will as.....


Or you give some other examples to make it clear the answer was more broad.

There are other things you can do in that situation also, but that's a good start.

And of course you are free to keep communicating vaguely and wasting your own time and everyone else's.

And you are free to keep calling me a determinist even though I am not.
And you are free to think people asking questions limits you.
And you are free hint at future conversations rather than responding.
And you are free to try to shift the onus onto other people so you don't have to back up things you say.

You are free to keep doing these things.

And I am free to stop reading you, because the truth is I am starting to feel sorry for you.
And it's not fun to feel sorry for someone who is belligerant.



Should you notice other people think your communication is poor, you could come back to this post and try some of my suggestions. And of course you'd be free to not do this or change you mind.

Your freedom seems very limited and defensive so far as a communicator.

You take care. Bye.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 12:41 pmYou are attending my Academy right now, little one. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I think my "higher education" is somewhat higher than yours.

But oh great Wizard please let us all now what great heights of knoweldge you have reached?

Tell us how your discomfort and lack of security have given you such great insights!
Please oh great one what have you learned from your insecurity?
What has being uncomfortable told you about life, oh wizzy wizard?

You are still wrong about the Greeks.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 8:43 am Why is so much of Humanity afraid of Freeing their Will, and instead choose comforts, security, habit, the known, over all the Greater desires and ideas that they could possibly have?

Kinda looks like you freed your will by throwing away your medication, and it's probably time to tell your doctor about that so you can get a new batch.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:38 pmI don't think either of us have used the phrase 'good life, well lived', so I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I don't think I've used that pairing of phrases.

That is my paraphrase of "rich fantastic life". Your words. Why does this trouble you so much?

Nervous of what your free-will implies about your life?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:38 pmI'm going to try to help with something really quite basic....
When you make vague statements, like those in the OP and in many posts in this thread, people, some of them, are likely to do two things to try to understand what you mean....
1) ask questions - I'm sorry if you think this means they are imposing limits on you. I can only assure asking questions doesn't do this.
2) paraphrase what you have said to see if they understand. You examples were mental examples, thoughts, in relation to soaring and doing the impossible. Those were the examples, one with a link, that you gave me. It seemed like soaring and doing the impossible had to do with speculating and thinking, given your examples.

Here's what an adult does in that situation.
You say, Yes, that's correct. or...
No, your interpretation isn't correct. Here's why.
and you actually write and clarify, so the other person understands what you meant.

Or, that's partially correct, but I view free will as.....


Or you give some other examples to make it clear the answer was more broad.

There are other things you can do in that situation also, but that's a good start.

And of course you are free to keep communicating vaguely and wasting your own time and everyone else's.

And you are free to keep calling me a determinist even though I am not.
And you are free to think people asking questions limits you.
And you are free hint at future conversations rather than responding.
And you are free to try to shift the onus onto other people so you don't have to back up things you say.

You are free to keep doing these things.

And I am free to stop reading you, because the truth is I am starting to feel sorry for you.
And it's not fun to feel sorry for someone who is belligerant.



Should you notice other people think your communication is poor, you could come back to this post and try some of my suggestions. And of course you'd be free to not do this or change you mind.

Your freedom seems very limited and defensive so far as a communicator.

You take care. Bye.

Ah yes, *I* am the belligerent who patronizes and talks down to others first. Re-read the thread and pay attention closely "who started it".

As somebody who denies being 'Determinist', you sure do play the part. Maybe you do believe in free-will, maybe not. You certainly don't act like it though.

I'll repeat for brevity's sake.

Isn't it interesting how the question of free-will, the spectre and possibility of it, exposes the deepest parts of the human soul?

Does it not unveil everybody's core motivations?


A "rich fantastic life" he says. And he doesn't even know where this insight came from...

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:48 pm

Isn't it interesting how the question of free-will, the spectre and possibility of it, exposes the deepest parts of the human soul?

Do you just write down whatever drifts into your head?

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:55 pmDo you just write down whatever drifts into your head?

Quite amazing, innit?

So few people these days have anything drifting through their head at all, except a gust of wind perhaps. You can relate.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:55 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:48 pm

Isn't it interesting how the question of free-will, the spectre and possibility of it, exposes the deepest parts of the human soul?

Do you just write down whatever drifts into your head?

Are you sure he wasn't quoting Henry?