Freeing of the Will

[Sculptor]

Why not soar higher than anybody has possibly ascended, before?

Because you can't ascend higher than you can possibly ascend.

[Wizard22]

Oh dear. You seem to have opened your thread with a massive false dichotmy.
Those that chose "conforts, security, and the habit of the known" are the ones most freely expressing their will.

Speak for yourself.

I am speaking for me. You are speaking for you.

You have expressed your own desire for comfort and security, without considering anything greater. You essentially proved my point. Thank you, I guess?

I'm beginning to see better the quandary. People can only imagine so much, and can have no notion of "something better".



I disagree with your analysis of the Greeks too. What happens when you have comfort and security forever? You become Bored. So there are yet higher Needs to be fulfilled. Christians identified this stage as Purgatory. You have much yet to learn, little one.

[Harbal]

I don't, but you are the one who set the bounds of possibility:

Was it me...or you? Did I not state to break bounds of possibility? That's what I suggest be done.

The bounds of possibility can’t be broken, or they wouldn’t be bounds, would they?

[Wizard22]

They're not the bounds when they're only subjective. What you call your bounds, are only "yours". They don't apply to anybody else.

[Harbal]

They're not the bounds when they're only subjective.

If they are not bounds, why did you call them bounds?

[Wizard22]

If they are not bounds, why did you call them bounds?

The word is merely a temporary constraint between the time it takes for me to communicate the idea, and you to properly understand it.

[Sculptor]

Oh dear. You seem to have opened your thread with a massive false dichotmy.
Those that chose "conforts, security, and the habit of the known" are the ones most freely expressing their will.

Speak for yourself.

I am speaking for me. You are speaking for you.

You have expressed your own desire for comfort and security, without considering anything greater. You essentially proved my point. Thank you, I guess?

No. You are still wrong.
My comfort and security have allowed me to seek more and greater things than you are calable of with your faux struggle BS.
What you seem to have lacked here is basic comprehension.
Seems you have not attaned the most basic skills, let alone any thing "greater".

I'm beginning to see better the quandary. People can only imagine so much, and can have no notion of "something better".

Don't hold your breath - you have so much further to go to attain the heights you are dreaming of.
I can imagine something better than you, and that is me.

I disagree with your analysis of the Greeks too. What happens when you have comfort and security forever? You become Bored. So there are yet higher Needs to be fulfilled. Christians identified this stage as Purgatory. You have much yet to learn, little one.

You cannot have your own facts.
Try looking it up FFS.
from
σχόλιον
the root of school.

Have you ever attended one?

[henry quirk]

Why is so much of Humanity afraid of Freeing their Will, and instead choose comforts, security, habit, the known, over all the Greater desires and ideas that they could possibly have?

They aren't afraid. They've been hoodwinked into believin' themselves to be nuthin' more than meat, determined meat. Their intuitions have been blunted.

Why unnecessarily stunt and retard the Human Spirit? Why clip our wings? Why not soar higher than anybody has possibly ascended, before?

As I've said elsewhere: if you can make a man believe he's just meat, just a smart chimp, then you can use him as you like, and have him commit atrocities on himself and others.

Why measure Humanity from the base, from the Animal, instead of from the Apex? Why choose lowly Gods, instead of high Ones?

See above.

Is it not a Free-Will, a Spirit of Man, that truly separates Him from the mud, the dirt, the worms, the insects?

Yep.

Man has Wings greater than any bird, if you let Him. So why do you pull Him down?

See above.

And: don't let the dumb bastards wear you down, Wiz.

[Wizard22]

Don't hold your breath - you have so much further to go to attain the heights you are dreaming of.
I can imagine something better than you, and that is me.

Calm down and wait your turn, little one, your higher education will begin momentarily.

You cannot have your own facts.
Try looking it up FFS.
from
σχόλιον
the root of school.

Have you ever attended one?

The Greeks knew full well the result of endless comfort and security. It goes to boredom, to entertainment, to thrill seeking, to curiosity, and eventually at some point to self-introspection. Purgatory refers to the state of comfort and boredom by which a limited mind cannot 'advance' or 'progress' beyond base needs. So it requires an endless amount of stimuli, put on repeat. Because of its limited memory, endless repetition is enough for it, Eternal Recurrence.

Have I ever attended a school? You are attending my Academy right now, little one. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Iwannaplato]

My point was that people settle for much lower than ideals professed to children from the 'educators' of society who "want best" for children. Somewhere along the way, most people 'settle' for lives of discontent, resulting in Cynicism. Or you could call it, "Determinism".[q

To me those terms are not remotely synonyms. One could be determinist and optimistic and fight against tyranny. One could, sure, be a determinist and have pretty much any attitude. Cynicism is an attitude about life. Determinsm is a set of beliefs in Metaphysics.

Empiricists can be happy or sad or optimistic or.....
Deontologists can be cynical or Pollyanas.

It's a kind of category error.

How is this me "choosing for them"?

I never said you chose for someone. Presumably people choose themselves. It's your belief. You talked about freeing the will. This to me means it isn't free at one point in time and then someone chooses to free their own wills.

The free something, is to release it from captivity. It's not free and you free it. Or that's what I think.
I assumed, given you views on freedom that you can choose to free it.

But, please, let me know what you meant.[/quote]

There is freedom and constraint of the body.
There is freedom and constraint of the mind.

The latter applies to a prisoner in a jail cell who never thinks to press open the door, to realize it's always been unlocked.
The mental prison trumps the physical prison.

Right, but again. When you mention freeing the will, it implies at one point it is not free then later it is. It seems from what you wrote above you see people 'settling' and this leads to them not have free wills. Later they can free their will (again.)

If this is what you believe, then this isn't in the right forum. People who believe in free will in a metaphysics sense do not think that your will can be unfree now but free later.

That has to do with political and social and individual freedom. Do you use the full ranges of options? Do you value the freedom to do this or that or all those things?

How have I clipped my wings? Please be specific or mention some thing about my life.

There's no example of soaring: For example, how are you soaring in a way I am not? How do you soar in a way that no one has before

Because you suggested the constraint first.

Where did I suggest constraint? I noticed you talking about freeing the will, which seemed to indicate a non-free state and then when you free the will a free state.

My point is that everybody has a base reference for freedom corresponding to will.
What you know of 'freedom', is already what you've questioned or doubted.
I don't need to know the story book of your life, to know the questions you posed to me first and foremost.

Um, you're just making stuff up about somone you don't know.

How much can you tell about a person by their look, or by their voice?
Or by their questions and literacy? This is our format.

You don't seem to know much about me. You've been wrong repeatedly.

I'm not a determinist.

We shall see.

What?

No, that doesn't describe me well at all. I am not a moral realist, as a start. And I am a huge fan of freedom, both on the political and personal levels.

What do you do that shows how free you are ?

Hallucinate stuff about other people?

I guess I've done that on occasion, but it's not a source of pride.

Yes, call it a Hallucination if you like. I've only just begun.

You haven't given a single example of you soaring. You haven't given a single example of what you dream of achieving, some future soaring. You made claims about me, but did nothing to back them up.

You haven't clarified what YOU are talking about.

[Wizard22]

They aren't afraid. They've been hoodwinked into believin' themselves to be nuthin' more than meat, determined meat. Their intuitions have been blunted.

I agree and this is a main point.

It's kind of a twisted, hypocrisy. The previous generation load the children up with their greatest hopes and ideals—but also tend to saddle them with the same constraints and limitations. The prideful and vain ones do far worse even, they actively suppress the new generation so not as to outshine their own achievements. It is here where the human wing 'clipping' mostly takes place.

The previous generation does not want to be outshone. So despite all the lip service paid to "protecting the youth" their innocence, it's the same hypocrites who destroy their innocence. Why? Perhaps because societies are setup in such a way that they're not intended to be won, yet everybody is forced to play, by the rules the youth inherit and the elders impose.

Like you say, 'Determinism' is a main constraint. It's not limited to Atheist, Agnostic, Theist, Deist, etc. All manners of ideology place their constraints on the new inductees. Very few ideologies are—anti-ideological. You'd think that 'Liberalism' would be about Liberty. Yet what's the first compulsion? It places constraints on beliefs. You are 'allowed' to be Liberal as long as you don't harm anybody else. This would be fine, if it were possible. That's a big if. And then it comes to morality and harm. This is the part where people latch onto Evil as the primary moral constraint. It is (supposed to be) never a "Choice" that one would do Evil. But who controls what is deemed Evil, and what is deemed Good?

(...the Determinists??)

And: don't let the dumb bastards wear you down, Wiz.

This ain't my first rodeo, cowboy...YEEEHAWW!

[Wizard22]

One could be determinist and optimistic and fight against tyranny. One could, sure, be a determinist and have pretty much any attitude. Cynicism is an attitude about life. Determinsm is a set of beliefs in Metaphysics.

Why would Optimism be necessary if your fight against tyranny is predetermined?

I'm out of time...more later.

[Iwannaplato]

And: don't let the dumb bastards wear you down, Wiz.

Get him down? He can't even respond to simple questions on topic? Like giving examples. He expects others to prove anything they say, when he doesn't realize that asserting something isn't an argument, let alone a proof. He's insulting and ignores things that...well, I don't know why he simply avoids certain points. He's yet another repeating-my-assertion is a good argument posters. He's going to appear pleased with himself regardless. What's happening at the other end of internet cables, who knows?

[Iwannaplato]

One could be determinist and optimistic and fight against tyranny. One could, sure, be a determinist and have pretty much any attitude. Cynicism is an attitude about life. Determinsm is a set of beliefs in Metaphysics.

Why would Optimism be necessary if your fight against tyranny is predetermined?

I'm out of time...more later.

Who said anything about it being necessary?

I said 'could' which refers to possibility not necessity.

[Sculptor]

Don't hold your breath - you have so much further to go to attain the heights you are dreaming of.
I can imagine something better than you, and that is me.

Calm down and wait your turn, little one, your higher education will begin momentarily.

You cannot have your own facts.
Try looking it up FFS.
from
σχόλιον
the root of school.

Have you ever attended one?

The Greeks knew full well the result of endless comfort and security. It goes to boredom, to entertainment, to thrill seeking, to curiosity, and eventually at some point to self-introspection. Purgatory refers to the state of comfort and boredom by which a limited mind cannot 'advance' or 'progress' beyond base needs. So it requires an endless amount of stimuli, put on repeat. Because of its limited memory, endless repetition is enough for it, Eternal Recurrence.

Have I ever attended a school? You are attending my Academy right now, little one. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I think my "higher education" is somewhat higher than yours.

But oh great Wizard please let us all now what great heights of knoweldge you have reached?

Tell us how your discomfort and lack of security have given you such great insights!
Please oh great one what have you learned from your insecurity?
What has being uncomfortable told you about life, oh wizzy wizard?

You are still wrong about the Greeks.