Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:18 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:45 am
The question is how you could have options in a deterministic system when the future is determined uniquely from the past.

When you find out what 'the future holds', as they say, and HOW it comes about, then you will UNDERSTAND FULLY HOW and WHY 'you' have options.

Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

No.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:53 am
My point is that if the universe behaves deterministically then one state of affair defines another state of affair and only one. Therefore, it seems that you don't have options since to have options you need two available reachable states of affair.

What you are 'trying to' say/question is not about 'options' but rather about the 'choice/s' that get made.

No, I am talking about options.

Okay.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:53 am
My point is that if the universe behaves deterministically then one state of affair defines another state of affair and only one. Therefore, it seems that you don't have options since to have options you need two available reachable states of affair.

What you are 'trying to' say/question is not about 'options' but rather about the 'choice/s' that get made.

No, I am talking about options.

' Options' means the same as 'choices'.These words are synonyms. They mean the same.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:09 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:18 am

When you find out what 'the future holds', as they say, and HOW it comes about, then you will UNDERSTAND FULLY HOW and WHY 'you' have options.

Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

No.

So you don't know what you are talking about.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:25 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:20 am

What you are 'trying to' say/question is not about 'options' but rather about the 'choice/s' that get made.

No, I am talking about options.

' Options' means the same as 'choices'.These words are synonyms. They mean the same.

I am aware of that. You are better read Age post to see what I meant.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:18 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:45 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:41 pm

Yes, AGAIN.


Without reference, 'What is 'the' option?', is not correctly answerable.

LOOK, ALL physical matter is determined by past events. Due to past events physical matter has evolved and formed into the shape known as 'human'. Humans evolved with the function of 'choice'. Human beings have options, from which to choose from, and really this is just this simple.

The question is how you could have options in a deterministic system when the future is determined uniquely from the past.

When you find out what 'the future holds', as they say, and HOW it comes about, then you will UNDERSTAND FULLY HOW and WHY 'you' have options.

You can never know what the future holds. You can never know all the causes of what will happen in the future, or what happened in the past. Your options include informed guesses and random guesses but your options never include clairvoyance.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:44 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:09 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am
Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

No.

So you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked if I mind explaining ....?

I said, 'No' (I do not mind).

How did you MISINTERPRET that?

See, here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of just how quickly the human beings, in the days when this was being written, would JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS and CONCLUSIONS. Even when they ask the clarifying question and I provide them with the very SPECIFIC and very CLEAR answer, they are STILL able to MISINTERPRET it and make Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Even when just a one word answer was provided.

You asked a very specific question. I provided you with the very specific answer. Now, if what you want/ed was something else, then I suggest you SPECIFICALLY ask for 'that'.

Now, if you want to KNOW how there are options, when the future is uniquely determined by the past, then just ask for 'that', specifically. Understood?

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:45 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:25 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:50 am
No, I am talking about options.

' Options' means the same as 'choices'.These words are synonyms. They mean the same.

I am aware of that. You are better read Age post to see what I meant.

Just to add, there can be 'options', but without 'choices' necessarily being made. That is; there can be an option but a choice does not have to be made.

It could be said that 'options' are given/provided, whereas 'choices' are chosen/decided, or made. One can make 'options' but they are usually provided for, or to, one.

So, although 'options' and 'choices' can mean the same, then are not always the same.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:31 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:18 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:45 am
The question is how you could have options in a deterministic system when the future is determined uniquely from the past.

When you find out what 'the future holds', as they say, and HOW it comes about, then you will UNDERSTAND FULLY HOW and WHY 'you' have options.

You can never know what the future holds.

Besides a volcanic eruption, meteor strike, or something else completely wiping things out, you can KNOW what the future holds, SOMETIMES.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:31 pm You can never know all the causes of what will happen in the future, or what happened in the past.

Considering that a 'you' only exists up to a hundred or so years, and the Universe, Itself, exists a LOT longer than that, then OBVIOUSLY what you state here above is True. I would have thought this would be accepted without the need to even say so.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:31 pm Your options include informed guesses and random guesses but your options never include clairvoyance.

This has absolutely NOTHING AT ALL to do with what I have been talking about and meaning.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:53 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:44 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:09 pm

No.

So you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked if I mind explaining ....?

I said, 'No' (I do not mind).

How did you MISINTERPRET that?

See, here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of just how quickly the human beings, in the days when this was being written, would JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS and CONCLUSIONS. Even when they ask the clarifying question and I provide them with the very SPECIFIC and very CLEAR answer, they are STILL able to MISINTERPRET it and make Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Even when just a one word answer was provided.

You asked a very specific question. I provided you with the very specific answer. Now, if what you want/ed was something else, then I suggest you SPECIFICALLY ask for 'that'.

Now, if you want to KNOW how there are options, when the future is uniquely determined by the past, then just ask for 'that', specifically. Understood?

No. You don't know what you are talking about.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:53 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:44 pm
So you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked if I mind explaining ....?

I said, 'No' (I do not mind).

How did you MISINTERPRET that?

See, here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of just how quickly the human beings, in the days when this was being written, would JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS and CONCLUSIONS. Even when they ask the clarifying question and I provide them with the very SPECIFIC and very CLEAR answer, they are STILL able to MISINTERPRET it and make Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Even when just a one word answer was provided.

You asked a very specific question. I provided you with the very specific answer. Now, if what you want/ed was something else, then I suggest you SPECIFICALLY ask for 'that'.

Now, if you want to KNOW how there are options, when the future is uniquely determined by the past, then just ask for 'that', specifically. Understood?

No.

If you can NOT understand that, then, in other words, if you want some specific thing, then just ask for the ACTUAL specific thing that you want. Do you understand now?

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am You don't know what you are talking about.

LOL

You asked me: Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

And I responded: No. Which MEANS that 'No I do NOT mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past.

BUT, you JUMPED to the CONCLUSION that I do NOT know what I am talking about. Which MEANS that either you had ALREADY CONCLUDED that NO one could know what they were talking about if what they were to talk about the OPPOSITE of what you WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE is true, BEFORE you even asked the APPARENT clarifying question, or, you JUMPED to YOUR CONCLUSION on seeing my responding answer.

LOOK, I KNOW what I have to talk about AND I can CLEARLY explain what I have to talk about.

CONSIDER the Fact that there is NO POSSIBLE way that you could CONCLUDE that I do NOT know what I am talking about when you have NOT YET even HEARD what I have to talk about.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how the BELIEF-system within these human beings will NOT even allow them to just consider absolutely ANY thing that OPPOSES the BELIEFS they have.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:26 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:53 pm

You asked if I mind explaining ....?

I said, 'No' (I do not mind).

How did you MISINTERPRET that?

See, here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of just how quickly the human beings, in the days when this was being written, would JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS and CONCLUSIONS. Even when they ask the clarifying question and I provide them with the very SPECIFIC and very CLEAR answer, they are STILL able to MISINTERPRET it and make Wrong ASSUMPTIONS. Even when just a one word answer was provided.

You asked a very specific question. I provided you with the very specific answer. Now, if what you want/ed was something else, then I suggest you SPECIFICALLY ask for 'that'.

Now, if you want to KNOW how there are options, when the future is uniquely determined by the past, then just ask for 'that', specifically. Understood?

No.

If you can NOT understand that, then, in other words, if you want some specific thing, then just ask for the ACTUAL specific thing that you want. Do you understand now?

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am You don't know what you are talking about.

LOL

You asked me: Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

And I responded: No. Which MEANS that 'No I do NOT mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past.

BUT, you JUMPED to the CONCLUSION that I do NOT know what I am talking about. Which MEANS that either you had ALREADY CONCLUDED that NO one could know what they were talking about if what they were to talk about the OPPOSITE of what you WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE is true, BEFORE you even asked the APPARENT clarifying question, or, you JUMPED to YOUR CONCLUSION on seeing my responding answer.

LOOK, I KNOW what I have to talk about AND I can CLEARLY explain what I have to talk about.

CONSIDER the Fact that there is NO POSSIBLE way that you could CONCLUDE that I do NOT know what I am talking about when you have NOT YET even HEARD what I have to talk about.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how the BELIEF-system within these human beings will NOT even allow them to just consider absolutely ANY thing that OPPOSES the BELIEFS they have.

How could you have choices when the future is uniquely defined by the past?

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:01 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:26 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am
No.

If you can NOT understand that, then, in other words, if you want some specific thing, then just ask for the ACTUAL specific thing that you want. Do you understand now?

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am You don't know what you are talking about.

LOL

You asked me: Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

And I responded: No. Which MEANS that 'No I do NOT mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past.

BUT, you JUMPED to the CONCLUSION that I do NOT know what I am talking about. Which MEANS that either you had ALREADY CONCLUDED that NO one could know what they were talking about if what they were to talk about the OPPOSITE of what you WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE is true, BEFORE you even asked the APPARENT clarifying question, or, you JUMPED to YOUR CONCLUSION on seeing my responding answer.

LOOK, I KNOW what I have to talk about AND I can CLEARLY explain what I have to talk about.

CONSIDER the Fact that there is NO POSSIBLE way that you could CONCLUDE that I do NOT know what I am talking about when you have NOT YET even HEARD what I have to talk about.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how the BELIEF-system within these human beings will NOT even allow them to just consider absolutely ANY thing that OPPOSES the BELIEFS they have.

How could you have choices when the future is uniquely defined by the past?

Bahman, are you trying to draw some sense out of Age, or do you genuinely not know the answer to your question?

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:08 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:01 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:26 am

If you can NOT understand that, then, in other words, if you want some specific thing, then just ask for the ACTUAL specific thing that you want. Do you understand now?



LOL

You asked me: Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

And I responded: No. Which MEANS that 'No I do NOT mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past.

BUT, you JUMPED to the CONCLUSION that I do NOT know what I am talking about. Which MEANS that either you had ALREADY CONCLUDED that NO one could know what they were talking about if what they were to talk about the OPPOSITE of what you WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE is true, BEFORE you even asked the APPARENT clarifying question, or, you JUMPED to YOUR CONCLUSION on seeing my responding answer.

LOOK, I KNOW what I have to talk about AND I can CLEARLY explain what I have to talk about.

CONSIDER the Fact that there is NO POSSIBLE way that you could CONCLUDE that I do NOT know what I am talking about when you have NOT YET even HEARD what I have to talk about.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how the BELIEF-system within these human beings will NOT even allow them to just consider absolutely ANY thing that OPPOSES the BELIEFS they have.

How could you have choices when the future is uniquely defined by the past?

Bahman, are you trying to draw some sense out of Age, or do you genuinely not know the answer to your question?

Her answer is wrong. If the past uniquely defines the future then there is always one choice and not many. I think that is simple to understand.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:01 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:26 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am
No.

If you can NOT understand that, then, in other words, if you want some specific thing, then just ask for the ACTUAL specific thing that you want. Do you understand now?

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:12 am You don't know what you are talking about.

LOL

You asked me: Do you mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past?

And I responded: No. Which MEANS that 'No I do NOT mind explaining how you could have options when the future is uniquely determined by the past.

BUT, you JUMPED to the CONCLUSION that I do NOT know what I am talking about. Which MEANS that either you had ALREADY CONCLUDED that NO one could know what they were talking about if what they were to talk about the OPPOSITE of what you WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE is true, BEFORE you even asked the APPARENT clarifying question, or, you JUMPED to YOUR CONCLUSION on seeing my responding answer.

LOOK, I KNOW what I have to talk about AND I can CLEARLY explain what I have to talk about.

CONSIDER the Fact that there is NO POSSIBLE way that you could CONCLUDE that I do NOT know what I am talking about when you have NOT YET even HEARD what I have to talk about.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how the BELIEF-system within these human beings will NOT even allow them to just consider absolutely ANY thing that OPPOSES the BELIEFS they have.

How could you have choices when the future is uniquely defined by the past?

How you can, and DO, have choices when the future is uniquely defined by the past is because of how the future, to 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written, is actually created. The future, to 'you', is made by the choices you make, and the uniquely defined future, to 'you', is based on the intrinsic desire with ALL of 'you'. 'you' are evolving towards creating that uniquely defined future, to 'you'. When 'you' learn to make the Correct and Right choices, for what it is that 'you' ALL desire, then 'we', together, make the future, which is uniquely defined by the past.

See, the past is leading 'us' towards learning how to distinguish between what is ACTUALLY Right in Life from what is ACTUALLY Wrong in Life, and then and only then, can, and WILL, the Right choices be made.

When you learn what is ACTUALLY Right and Wrong in Life and how the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY work, then you will SEE and UNDERSTAND how the past is ALWAYS making the present, and thus the future as well, which is uniquely defined by the past. See, when 'you', human beings, evolve out of the human being stage of evolution, then thee True Self comes to Itself, who is then ACTUALLY ABLE to KNOW how there NEVER ACTUALLY 'was' REAL choices, from the True perspective, which you are questioning here, from how it 'is' through the Right choices the present to 'us' (which the future to 'you') is uniquely defined by the past.

This may be very confusing to 'you', in the days when this is being written, but ALL-OF-THIS can be EXPLAINED and UNDERSTOOD, very easily and very simply. That is when one is Truly prepared to learn and understand.

See, 'you', human beings, best learn by making mistakes. So, when you learn what is actually Right in Life, only then you are able to make the 'choices' which will create the future, to 'you', which IS inherently sought after.