Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:26 am As an American, I would LOVE it if I could confidently say our ally Israel is justified in what it's doing. I honestly would. However, there is a lot of information out there that suggests that they aren't and as a philosopher, I ought to go with the truth, don't you think, IC? Therefore, I see a need to establish the truth first.

If nothing beyond this, we have seen that in respect to political and ideological issues that even establishing a base for general, truthful statements is a fraught endeavor.

In this it is interesting to point out that in all of IC’s “argument” that what we could all agree upon as a truth platform vis-a-vis Israel and Zionism, is not attainable for him. Why? I submit it is, at the core, religious zealotry. But is that all? In that I am uncertain.

In my view, seeing the “true facts” about Zionism and Israel’s founding is really really simple — if one chooses. It is a question of choice. Now, I say this as one who, some years back, was adamantly pro-Israel (different from Zionist I should add).

But I saw the issue differently. Or framed it differently. The conquest and occupation of Palestine reveals the dynamic of power-politics and, concomitantly, the art of rhetorical justification required in our world to support those choices made by power. Naturally, the “players” and beneficiaries of the power-dynamic cannot “tell the truth”! And here arises the need, and the art, of the Machiavellian deception. Based, as it is, in a power-dynamic and aware, as it is, that “the truth” cannot be told.

Only someone outside of the dynamic is free enough to see and describe what is actually going on.

As •philosophers• we can access that distance if we choose, but how curious it is to observe how partisans (of particular stances) refuse to carry out the philosophical distancing needed, and thus show themselves as acute sophists.

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:55 am

The question: how did they know they could count on the support of the Western media and academy, when what they did was so unspeakably evil and vicious?

Answer me that.

''Evil'' is a man-made concept.

What you would have to mean, then, is "nothing is evil."

In which case, go to therapy.

As a grandstanding show of magnanimous generosity and obsequious condescension, today I offer to IC unlimited access to the first two sections of The 12-Week Email Course at no cost!

I am that committed to help him achieve the first steps in seeing, and telling, The Truth!

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:50 pm In my view, seeing the “true facts” about Zionism and Israel’s founding is really really simple — if one chooses. It is a question of choice. Now, I say this as one who, some years back, was adamantly pro-Israel (different from Zionist I should add).

Just as we believe that we can •truly see• and also explain what was dark, evil and malevolent about Nazism, so too we have the capacity to see into “the darkened heart” of all who strive for power and domination in our world. That, I submit, is “the satanic compromise”, the “deal with the Devil” that in truth implicates all of us.

In the Story, the diabolical spirit takes the GodMan on a mystic visionary voyage through the space of seeing. “All this can be yours if only you will worship me”.

Here, the ultimate metaphysical principle impinges on man’s conscience! The recognition of the ultra-problematical complications of man’s situation.

I am so winning this round of the Argument that I am getting giddy!

Selah!

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:29 am

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:03 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:46 am
that I got from ChatGPT.

There is nothing against the Zionist idea of ​​restoring a Jewish state in the Promised Land.
But Belinda's statement saddens me, I had the impression that she was a sane girl.

I am not a "girl". I was alive and intelligent during the last Nazi war when there was a different contender for the "'Chosen People' and 'Rightful Homeland' titles.

And yet, you haven't answered the question, what bad did you see in Zionism?

And the Nazis, and those who went against the Chosen People before them, they are no longer with us, they are finished. And the same shameful fate for those who are now going against the Chosen People.

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:09 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:29 am

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:03 am

There is nothing against the Zionist idea of ​​restoring a Jewish state in the Promised Land.
But Belinda's statement saddens me, I had the impression that she was a sane girl.

I am not a "girl". I was alive and intelligent during the last Nazi war when there was a different contender for the "'Chosen People' and 'Rightful Homeland' titles.

And yet, you haven't answered the question, what bad did you see in Zionism?

And the Nazis, and those who went against the Chosen People before them, they are no longer with us, they are finished. And the same shameful fate for those who are now going against the Chosen People.

What of evil did you see in the German Nazi Party's Aryan myth?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:57 pm As a grandstanding show of magnanimous generosity and obsequious condescension, today I offer to IC unlimited access to the first two sections of The 12-Week Email Course at no cost!

I am that committed to help him achieve the first steps in seeing, and telling, The Truth!

Or you could answer the question I asked you.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:52 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:55 am

The question: how did they know they could count on the support of the Western media and academy, when what they did was so unspeakably evil and vicious?

Answer me that.

''Evil'' is a man-made concept.

What you would have to mean, then, is "nothing is evil."

In which case, go to therapy.

I guess those who believe evil is real are people who are fine and have no problem with their belief in evil.

It’s not like there are long queues of evil disbelievers forming outside of psychiatric wards awaiting their turn to have proven to them that everything is evil.



If evil is a thing, then everyone seems to be ok with it. Or else it wouldn’t exist.

Yeah, about that conflict between jews and muslims...

It is today what it always has been: a prehistoric tussle wherein each tribe says...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 6:42 pmmy god is right and yours is wrong

...that's the sum of it. There's nuthin' more to it.

You can back the horse of your choice, just keep in mind: it's okay to back neither.

But, the children, Henry! What of the children?

If you're not attendin' to the kids in your own back yard who need help, then mebbe you need to shut up about all them poor children over there you aren't liftin' a finger for either.

The global implications, Henry! What of the global implications?

There are no global implications. If it weren't for technology (arms and communication) none of us would know diddly about that lil picayune scrabble. Whatever weight that tribal feud has comes solely becuz it's been advertised & marketed. Somebody is makin' a buck (literal & figurative) on that and it sure as hell ain't you.

But, Henry, the Children! The Implications!

Hey, do as you like. Ride that wagon (someone else's wagon, not yours) right over the cliff. I won't.

Oh, Henry, you think you're so smart...

Not me. I'm dumb as a brick. Too dumb, in fact, to get hoodwinked into backin' tribes that ain't mine over a God that ain't mine, or a piece of desert I have no interest in.

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:24 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:09 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:29 am
I am not a "girl". I was alive and intelligent during the last Nazi war when there was a different contender for the "'Chosen People' and 'Rightful Homeland' titles.

And yet, you haven't answered the question, what bad did you see in Zionism?

And the Nazis, and those who went against the Chosen People before them, they are no longer with us, they are finished. And the same shameful fate for those who are now going against the Chosen People.

What of evil did you see in the German Nazi Party's Aryan myth?

I have already answered you, they went against the Chosen People.

But it is time for you to answer my questions.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:52 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:55 am

The question: how did they know they could count on the support of the Western media and academy, when what they did was so unspeakably evil and vicious?

Answer me that.

''Evil'' is a man-made concept.

What you would have to mean, then, is "nothing is evil."

In which case, go to therapy.

This is ridiculous. Why are things that are man-made non-existant? How about the pyramids? How about other "man-made concepts", like math, or language? Or religion (OK, you are free to ignore that one.).

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:59 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:24 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:09 pm

And yet, you haven't answered the question, what bad did you see in Zionism?

And the Nazis, and those who went against the Chosen People before them, they are no longer with us, they are finished. And the same shameful fate for those who are now going against the Chosen People.

What of evil did you see in the German Nazi Party's Aryan myth?

I have already answered you, they went against the Chosen People.

But it is time for you to answer my questions.

I see that you are a Biblical literalist who cannot see that, from its historical aspect ,The Bible is a book of love.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 5:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:52 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:16 am

''Evil'' is a man-made concept.

What you would have to mean, then, is "nothing is evil."

In which case, go to therapy.

This is ridiculous. Why are things that are man-made non-existant?

Concepts, you mean? You don't mean objects people invent. You mean ideas, concepts, beliefs, right?

Pyramids and iphones are objects. They correspond to items in reality. There is the concept of an iphone, then there is a real iphone. There's no contradiction there. But the concept of an anti-gravity pad will only be real if and only if somebody invents an actual anti-gravity pad. Until that time, it's just a concept, and one unanchored in any reality. It's an imagining, not a reality.

So yes, any concept that man makes up, but which fails to correspond to any objective reality, is what we call "fictitious." And that claim is not "ridiculous," it's what we call "painfully obvious." In fact, it's definitional.

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 5:32 pm

Janoah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:59 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:24 pm
What of evil did you see in the German Nazi Party's Aryan myth?

I have already answered you, they went against the Chosen People.

But it is time for you to answer my questions.

I see that you are a Biblical literalist who cannot see that, from its historical aspect ,The Bible is a book of love.

Is it? Well, it certainly speaks of love. But it is also a book of many other things...of promise, of righteousness, of justice, of holiness, of law, of mercy, of salvation, of repentance, of sacrifice, of hope, of judgment, of authority, of truth...

But I don't notice your interest in those things. Why isolate "love" as the one thing you know?