If God Exists, Is It Our God?

[Godfree]

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

[SpheresOfBalance]

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

No big deal, at 54 with a closet full of emotional baggage I accumulated as a youngster and now totally alone for over 2 years, I sometimes find I'm more sensitive to criticism of that which is all I seem to have left, my thoughts!

No worries, mate! (<--been to Australia ) Do you care to respond to what I said about a creator in my last, or not?

Keep in mind I've only seen the possibility as far as I have. And it's just a hypothesis of the possibility of a creator, It would seem that I'm an agnostic by some definitions.

[Godfree]

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

No big deal, at 54 with a closet full of emotional baggage I accumulated as a youngster and now totally alone for over 2 years, I sometimes find I'm more sensitive to criticism of that which is all I seem to have left, my thoughts!

No worries, mate! (<--been to Australia ) Do you care to respond to what I said about a creator in my last, or not?

Keep in mind I've only seen the possibility as far as I have. And it's just a hypothesis of the possibility of a creator, It would seem that I'm an agnostic by some definitions.

Electromotive force ,,???
is that even a real thing , what exactly is that ,
break it down for us , electro magnetic is what we have from the spinning core of our earth , gravity is what drives the universe ,
whats electromotive ,,???
Surely we can use the same argument against the existence of god ,
as we can about the Loch Ness monster ,
one is not enough , there would have to be a whole family to keep a breeding population going , to breed the next god ,???
if your going to say god existed for infinity,
you have opened up a can of contradiction ,
if god existed for infinity , there was no beginning ,
if god always was , thats time being measured , by god ,
time existed before the bb , cos god was there ,,???
how many contradictions do you want,,,???

[SpheresOfBalance]

Now Sob ,
how about I just reassure you that I don't hate you or dislike you ,
I'm not here to belittle you or make you feel small or wrong ,
I'm not here to shoot the messenger ,
I'm here to shoot the message ,
you are not the message , you may be the messenger and feel a duty to defend the message , good ,but don't get confused as to who's in the sights ,
if we don't put out counter points or different points of view we have nothing to argue against or no reason to shout about sanity , if the insane aren't on the lose ,
and once again , I'm GOADING/ a bit of cheek , bit of slap and tickle ,
man up and relax , your perfectly safe , I'm not really a monster ,
and coming to gobble you up

No big deal, at 54 with a closet full of emotional baggage I accumulated as a youngster and now totally alone for over 2 years, I sometimes find I'm more sensitive to criticism of that which is all I seem to have left, my thoughts!

No worries, mate! (<--been to Australia ) Do you care to respond to what I said about a creator in my last, or not?

Keep in mind I've only seen the possibility as far as I have. And it's just a hypothesis of the possibility of a creator, It would seem that I'm an agnostic by some definitions.

Electromotive force ,,???
is that even a real thing , what exactly is that ,
break it down for us , electro magnetic is what we have from the spinning core of our earth , gravity is what drives the universe ,
whats electromotive ,,???
Surely we can use the same argument against the existence of god ,
as we can about the Loch Ness monster ,
one is not enough , there would have to be a whole family to keep a breeding population going , to breed the next god ,???
if your going to say god existed for infinity,
you have opened up a can of contradiction ,
if god existed for infinity , there was no beginning ,
if god always was , thats time being measured , by god ,
time existed before the bb , cos god was there ,,???

how many contradictions do you want,,,???

Why in the hell do you continually talk of this GOD, you seem to be stuck in a god box. Think outside the box of the presupposition of the classic god model. I've already told you I hate mans god, it is an archaic man made story where man models a supernatural being after himself as a regulatory figurehead to control the masses, supposedly, for their own good, but is ultimately used for the good of the ones spinning the tale.

For the last time I do not believe in a religion or mans god!

I'm talking about the theory of a creator of the universe, not no fucking god nor no fucking religion, goodness fucking gracious!

The forces that I believe are one, that are responsible for all that is held together in the universe, is a part of the creators hands, so to speak, there is no fucking church, there is no fucking communication, there is no fucking interaction, there is no life after death in the sense that most see it. it's just that the borrowed things that make up each individual including that spark that binds (the creator) go back to their origins, pure and simple.

Of course it's just a theory where the crux is that all was designed as opposed to being that of random chance.

[Godfree]

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

[SpheresOfBalance]

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????
Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

[Godfree]

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????
Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???

[SpheresOfBalance]

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
As usual you fail to think outside the box. Your one problem, is that you tend to think of things that are obviously beyond us, from our limited perspective, as if we've already unlocked the secrets of the universe, in it's entirety. We have not, or we could circumnavigate the universe in it's entirety. You seem to be incapable of thinking that there could be much more beyond our comprehension, that does not adhere to the physics or knowledge, that we have come to know. This is your primary limitation. To liken the possible creator of infinity to that of a man made computer is absolutely laughable, at least think proportionately. Try thinking of a technology a trillion times more advanced than a quantum computer and beyond!

So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???
What are you talking about? I thought you and I agree that there is no fucking GOD, and that we were talking about a creator. If you expect to discuss/argue with me you'll have to stop changing the subject all the time, I can't keep track of your seemingly hurdy gurdy thinking process.

Now would you like to keep talking about this archaic GOD fuck that only exists in the minds of men that would control or be controlled, or would you like to talk about a new theory of the possibility of a creator? Personally, I have no time to discuss man's GOD!

Explain the force of gravity, from an observed perspective.

Explain electromagnetic energy, from an observed perspective.

Explain particles that seem to pop into and out of existence, from an observed perspective.

Explain where the infinite universe came from, if you believe it did not come from anything, explain how it could possibly be that it has always existed, either one from an observed perspective.

[Godfree]

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
As usual you fail to think outside the box. Your one problem, is that you tend to think of things that are obviously beyond us, from our limited perspective, as if we've already unlocked the secrets of the universe, in it's entirety. We have not, or we could circumnavigate the universe in it's entirety. You seem to be incapable of thinking that there could be much more beyond our comprehension, that does not adhere to the physics or knowledge, that we have come to know. This is your primary limitation. To liken the possible creator of infinity to that of a man made computer is absolutely laughable, at least think proportionately. Try thinking of a technology a trillion times more advanced than a quantum computer and beyond!

So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???
What are you talking about? I thought you and I agree that there is no fucking GOD, and that we were talking about a creator. If you expect to discuss/argue with me you'll have to stop changing the subject all the time, I can't keep track of your seemingly hurdy gurdy thinking process.

Now would you like to keep talking about this archaic GOD fuck that only exists in the minds of men that would control or be controlled, or would you like to talk about a new theory of the possibility of a creator? Personally, I have no time to discuss man's GOD!

Explain the force of gravity, from an observed perspective.

Explain electromagnetic energy, from an observed perspective.

Explain particles that seem to pop into and out of existence, from an observed perspective.

Explain where the infinite universe came from, if you believe it did not come from anything, explain how it could possibly be that it has always existed, either one from an observed perspective.

Sob , my use of god instead of creator , was just out of habit ,
the world that I know tend to believe they are one and the same ,
so I'm not used to thinking of them as separate concepts ,
I meant to say creator ,but it means the same to me ,,,
Gravity , no surprises I have my own opinion on that to ,
I believe at the heart of every atom is a little bit of black hole,
minute fragment of matter has so much power ,
the bit in the middle is so small compared to the size of the atom ,
I have to wonder how it is so powerful,
condensed matter , surely the only thing that could be so small and yet so powerful , is the condensed matter from a black hole ,
everything has a attraction to everything else ,
the black hole bits are trying to clump together, but the protons and electron put up a barrier and it takes the likes of a nuclear bomb to force them together causing the bits of black hole to collide ,
There is a simple experiment you could do to demonstrate gravity at work , get a bowl of water place to objects in the water floating not touching or moving ,
leave it for a day or two , and you will find the two objects clumped together
why, is a lot harder to know , but we can know what happens ,
Electro magnetic , that to me seems a bit easier ,
we make electric motors and generators , magnets have a field ,
and when you interfere with that field things happen ,
physical movement seems to be part of this equation ,
whether its a spinning core or wind and rain rubbing each other ,
electricity seems to be the result
particles that pop in and out of existence ,, makes no sense to me and
I would challenge that statement ,
the particle must be changing from one substance to another ,
rather than it not existing and then it exists from nowhere ,
thats like saying there was nothing before the BB ,
I would repeat my previous quote , Godfrees law ,
"If there was ever a point in the universes history that there was nothing , then nothing is all there would ever be"

[SpheresOfBalance]

First I would like to thank you, good sir, for seriously attempting to answer my questions. You are brave and honorable, or so it would seem!

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
As usual you fail to think outside the box. Your one problem, is that you tend to think of things that are obviously beyond us, from our limited perspective, as if we've already unlocked the secrets of the universe, in it's entirety. We have not, or we could circumnavigate the universe in it's entirety. You seem to be incapable of thinking that there could be much more beyond our comprehension, that does not adhere to the physics or knowledge, that we have come to know. This is your primary limitation. To liken the possible creator of infinity to that of a man made computer is absolutely laughable, at least think proportionately. Try thinking of a technology a trillion times more advanced than a quantum computer and beyond!

So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???
What are you talking about? I thought you and I agree that there is no fucking GOD, and that we were talking about a creator. If you expect to discuss/argue with me you'll have to stop changing the subject all the time, I can't keep track of your seemingly hurdy gurdy thinking process.

Now would you like to keep talking about this archaic GOD fuck that only exists in the minds of men that would control or be controlled, or would you like to talk about a new theory of the possibility of a creator? Personally, I have no time to discuss man's GOD!

Explain the force of gravity, from an observed perspective.

Explain electromagnetic energy, from an observed perspective.

Explain particles that seem to pop into and out of existence, from an observed perspective.

Explain where the infinite universe came from, if you believe it did not come from anything, explain how it could possibly be that it has always existed, either one from an observed perspective.

Sob , my use of god instead of creator , was just out of habit ,
the world that I know tend to believe they are one and the same ,
so I'm not used to thinking of them as separate concepts ,
I meant to say creator ,but it means the same to me ,,,
So I'll call you Wilber from now on, because to me all male web presenses (cyber-people) are Wilbers, All the female cyber-people are Gertrudes!

GOD is the specific name given to a particular GOD, unlike Zeus, Odin, etc. Would you refer to Zeus as GOD? If so you would confuse your audience. I am not speaking of GOD or a GOD, I'm speaking of "The Creator" Whom is not necessarily a GOD by definition and is also not the GOD by name either. "IT" is "THE CREATOR," I do not want you to attribute GOD like attributes to "THE CREATOR" so please refrain form calling "IT" that, as passerby's shall become confused, as they'll be prone to thinking we are referring to Mans GOD, and we are not!

I shall highlight your text for effect as my comment.

Gravity , no surprises I have my own opinion on that to ,
I believe at the heart of every atom is a little bit of black hole,
minute fragment of matter has so much power ,
the bit in the middle is so small compared to the size of the atom ,
I have to wonder how it is so powerful,
condensed matter , surely the only thing that could be so small and yet so powerful , is the condensed matter from a black hole ,
everything has a attraction to everything else ,
the black hole bits are trying to clump together, but the protons and electron put up a barrier and it takes the likes of a nuclear bomb to force them together causing the bits of black hole to collide ,
There is a simple experiment you could do to demonstrate gravity at work , get a bowl of water place to objects in the water floating not touching or moving ,
leave it for a day or two , and you will find the two objects clumped together
why, is a lot harder to know , but we can know what happens ,
You did not answer my question, because it is your 'opinion,' and you talked all around the force but failed to speak of what constitutes the force itself, because you've never seen it, you don't really 'know' what it is, you just know what other people have told you that it is, which is that, that they defined because of a mathematical 'model,' and nothing more. No man has seen gravity, no man can create gravity, a man has only created a mathematical model that represents the effects of gravity.

Electro magnetic , that to me seems a bit easier ,
we make electric motors and generators , magnets have a field ,
and when you interfere with that field things happen ,
physical movement seems to be part of this equation ,
whether its a spinning core or wind and rain rubbing each other ,
electricity seems to be the result
Again, you did not answer my question, because you failed to speak of what constitutes the force itself. Also, I'm curious as to why you did not talk about the naturally occurring lodestone.

particles that pop in and out of existence ,, makes no sense to me and
I would challenge that statement ,
the particle must be changing from one substance to another ,
rather than it not existing and then it exists from nowhere ,
thats like saying there was nothing before the BB ,
Then you disagree with Quantum Mechanics, but no worries I have issue with some of it as well. They do claim that the subatomic particles do this, into and out of existence dance.

I would repeat my previous quote , Godfrees law ,
"If there was ever a point in the universes history that there was nothing , then nothing is all there would ever be"
Again, you did not answer my question, because you failed to explain how that could be. How could it be that all the universe has always been? Don't just state it, explain it!

Edit: Misspelling!

[Godfree]

Sob ,,
I am pleased that you have enough faith in me that I might answer a question that science has yet to answer ,,INFINITY
A fascinating subject all in it'self ,
How could everything have always existed ,,,???
to understand this we must explore our options ,
what are the possible answers ,
what are the alternatives , we then look at each and decide ,
what we as individuals fell comfortable with or feel is right,
we can't all be astro physicists ,we can't all be experts in the field ,
there are many sayings some very old and some new ,
that could be considered relevant ,
"you can't get something out of nothing"
or as my law states nothing is all there would ever be ,
so lets explore this idea for a second , how could something come from nothing ,is this possible , are there any examples of this we can observe ,??
you made a reference to particles popping in and out of existence ,
I would assume they were just changing not existing then not existing ,
So a big question would be how or what started it , if it started,,???
the answer seems to be it didn't start it always was ,
If we break down matter to it's simplest form , Hydrogen ,
Hydrogen converts to Helium , which converts to Calcium , Potassium , etc
so we can make all the complex elements from the most basic model ,
so matter is really just a single concept , put together in a hundred and something ways, the periodic table
so matter can change and most is in a constant state of change ,
change is the only constant ,
where did all this Hydrogen come from ,,???
I don't know , could it come from nothing , I don't think so ,
If we break down an atom , we get inside the nucleas , to find nutrons and protons , and inside those is Quarks , but thats about as far as we can go at this stage,
basically I think we have two choices ,one it always existed ,
two god created it ,
The decision is fairly easy for me ,,!!!

[SpheresOfBalance]

Sob ,,
I am pleased that you have enough faith in me that I might answer a question that science has yet to answer ,,INFINITY
I'm not necessarily looking to you for answers, but I believe you deserve a chance to explain your understanding.
A fascinating subject all in it'self ,
How could everything have always existed ,,,???
to understand this we must explore our options ,
what are the possible answers ,
what are the alternatives , we then look at each and decide ,
what we as individuals fell comfortable with or feel is right,
we can't all be astro physicists ,we can't all be experts in the field ,
there are many sayings some very old and some new ,
that could be considered relevant ,
"you can't get something out of nothing"
or as my law states nothing is all there would ever be ,
so lets explore this idea for a second , how could something come from nothing ,is this possible , are there any examples of this we can observe ,??
Do you believe consciousness is a thing, if not what is it, if so it comes from nothing and goes to nothing.

you made a reference to particles popping in and out of existence ,
I would assume they were just changing not existing then not existing ,
So a big question would be how or what started it , if it started,,???
the answer seems to be it didn't start it always was ,
If we break down matter to it's simplest form , Hydrogen ,
Hydrogen converts to Helium , which converts to Calcium , Potassium , etc
so we can make all the complex elements from the most basic model ,
so matter is really just a single concept , put together in a hundred and something ways, the periodic table
so matter can change and most is in a constant state of change ,
change is the only constant ,
where did all this Hydrogen come from ,,???
I don't know , could it come from nothing , I don't think so ,
If we break down an atom , we get inside the nucleas , to find nutrons and protons , and inside those is Quarks , but thats about as far as we can go at this stage,
basically I think we have two choices ,one it always existed ,
two god created it ,
The decision is fairly easy for me ,,!!!
You still don't explain how it could be that it has always existed. You and I once did not exist and one day we won't exist The big bang theory does not necessarily prove that everything came from nothing. It just states that everything came from one thing. I've heard many physicists and cosmologists pose similar questions to: 'What banged?' and 'Where did the stuff that made up the singularity come from?' The thing is that, everything within the universe has an origin, why not the universe itself? Mankind, you and I, as well as the earth, our moon, our star, and our solar system, all have origins.

I say, that a fact that everything always existed, is just as strange as it coming from a central origin point, in the face of the equal possibility that there could have been nothing. Actually nothing seems more probable to me, yet here we are.

[Godfree]

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

[chaz wyman]

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.

[Godfree]

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.

There has been suggestion that things pop in and out of existence ,
but if matter is breaking down to components so small as to be beyond our ability to detect them , then we would assume they are not there ,
so we would see matter popping in and out of existence as it formed atoms and fell apart again , but the matter is as usual merely being re-arranged ,
Having said that , I believe we should be able to know what exists beyond the known universe ,
it's called logic , if we can't find any examples in the known universe ,
which lets face it is pretty big , then why would we assume when you get out of the known universe everything that we have learned goes out the window,
we could equally assume that it is all the same,
and that the rest of the infinite universe is pretty much the same as the known universe , same laws , same matter , same idiots trying to work it out,,!!!