Science , Fiction or Fact

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jibber jabba...

chaz 10
godfree -1

[chaz wyman]

To Godfree

You say God does not exist.

Prove it!

Firstly we would have to define god ,,
then we would have to agree upon what constituted proof ,,???
then it would be fairly easy , but you will have a different proof ,
a different definition of god and a different conclusion drawn .
God as in all knowing all powerful , western christianity,creator .
Is it possible to be all knowing and all powerful ,,????
the bible and the koran , don't appear to be all knowing ,,!!!
nor do any other book of religion, if god is all knowing , he's keeping it to himself ,,!!!
all powerful , if we have any faith in modern physics , we would see all powerful, as trying to reach the speed of light,
it would take a whole galaxy's worth of energy to get there,
I would question what gods fuel source is ,,what sustains it ,,???
there doesn't seem to be any logical way a god could store or organize energy and information without a physical being to hold the info and manage the knowledge , just the same as a spirit or ghost has the same lack of logic ,
When would then be drawn into giving the chances of such a being existing a probability out of 100 ,,
that god could be all knowing ,,can't see how it could know anything ,
I would give it zero % chance of being all knowing ,
All powerful , just seems impossible on almost every level I can imagine ,
I would give that a zero chance of being possible ,
Creator , I find this idea completely illogical ,
if we came to be because of a creator ,
what made the creator come to be , and it's creator come to be ad infinitum ,
Evolution seems the process regardless of what scale or thing in the universe , ie stars and planets are evolving , galaxies are evolving ,
the universe is evolving , ad infinitum ,,!!!
So , another zero % chance of being real ,
Now you may be a bit more generous and give it 60 40 or 70 30 ,
whatever, when you ad them together I get ,
Zero chance god is real ,
What chance do you give ,,???

Go on then! prove it!
Remember that this is the basis of your belief system.
Have a go. We are waiting!

[Godfree]

What constitutes proof ,,???
obviously you don't consider my last post proof , I do ,
you probably don't consider that there has never ever been a single event in human history that proves the existence of a god then or now ,
as proof there is no god , but I do ,
you wouldn't consider the idea that god is scientifically impossible ,
as proof either would you , but I do ,
I can't make you see that these are proof ,
any more than I can make a fundamentalist christian see that creation is a fantasy,
but that doesn't mean they aren't proof , it just means you can't see it ,,!!
god is illogical , impossible and a joke ,
WHAT WOULD YOU CONSIDER PROOF,,???????

[chaz wyman]

What constitutes proof ,,???
obviously you don't consider my last post proof , I do ,

Fuck man - even the Theist can be better than that!!


you probably don't consider that there has never ever been a single event in human history that proves the existence of a god then or now ,
as proof there is no god , but I do ,

Maybe you should read that back to yourself?

you wouldn't consider the idea that god is scientifically impossible ,
as proof either would you , but I do ,

Like I say - it's your ' belief system', so why not tell us how you can prove the non existence of God?


I can't make you see that these are proof ,
You haven't said shit yet. I'm still waiting!
any more than I can make a fundamentalist christian see that creation is a fantasy,
but that doesn't mean they aren't proof , it just means you can't see it ,,!!

Bullshit - proof is all about DEMONSTRATION. You cannot demonstrate that god does not exist and therefore your belief system is a pile of poo.

god is illogical , impossible and a joke ,
WHAT WOULD YOU CONSIDER PROOF,,???????

I have already told you that you cannot demonstrate a thing not to exist. That is why atheism can never be a belief system.

[Godfree]

Well Chaz , I hear your not happy with my belief system ,
and your not happy with the theists ,
who are you happy with , apart from yourself ,
Atheism is a belief system , it's my belief system ,
like many you don't approve or get why I "believe" what I do ,
but I don't need you approval or permission to be whatever Atheist I like Chaz ,
at least I'm offering an alternative to the system I challenge ,
you don't , you don't have a belief system ,
you don't have a plan as to how to topple religion , replace religion ,
you don't have jack shit but a whole lot of negativity ,
put downs and insults for everyone , safe place to be Chaz , nobody can accuse you of believing in something silly or unreal ,you don't believe in anything ,
people used to say to me "atheists believe in nothing "
I thought they were crazy ,
I now realize they were talking about you Chaz ,the nothing ,
it is easy to criticize , it is a whole lot harder to come up with ,
something better , an alternative ,
I asked you before in a previous post Chaz ,
Whats your plan , you have been elected king of the world Chaz ,
what will you change about our society ,,,????
do you have any plan ,or are you just here to criticize those who do ,,???

[chaz wyman]

Well Chaz , I hear your not happy with my belief system ,

Ha, I've just proved that you don't have one.
When I asked you to provide it, you were found lacking.
That is why you are no different from any other religion person.

and your not happy with the theists ,
who are you happy with , apart from yourself ,
Atheism is a belief system , it's my belief system ,

Empty thoughts, empty words.

like many you don't approve or get why I "believe" what I do ,
but I don't need you approval or permission to be whatever Atheist I like Chaz ,
at least I'm offering an alternative to the system I challenge ,
you don't , you don't have a belief system ,

One day you are going to realise that BELIEVE AND FAITH are the problem, not the solution.

you don't have a plan as to how to topple religion , replace religion ,

Nor do you. Replacing it with another one is no better.
When a thing is bad, you don't replace with the same thing, you jettison it!

you don't have jack shit but a whole lot of negativity ,

I am not beholdant to any definition of god.
You are the bitch of theism, and are wholly dependant on Theism

put downs and insults for everyone , safe place to be Chaz , nobody can accuse you of believing in something silly or unreal ,you don't believe in anything ,

Exactly! I bas my knowledge on evidence and reason where I can.
Belief is the problem. Because it demands that you hold on to things for which you can provide no support.
Just look back at you pathetic attempts to demonstrate your 'system'; look at the emptiness of you creed.
You were less effective than most Theists I have met, and if I had to choose between them I would have to reject you.

people used to say to me "atheists believe in nothing "
I thought they were crazy ,
I now realize they were talking about you Chaz ,the nothing ,

I'm happy not to have to rely on belief.

it is easy to criticize , it is a whole lot harder to come up with ,
something better , an alternative ,

The alternative is to reject religion and the theist creed. Case closed!
By pretending you need to replace it by denying it amounts to nothing.
By insisting that you need to replace religion you are demanding that it is necessary or useful.
So what is it about religion that you think is so important that you feel the need to replace it with some other belief system?
Personally I do not feel the need for religion, so I reject yours too.
Examples where religion has been replaced have been fucking disastrous.



I asked you before in a previous post Chaz ,
Whats your plan , you have been elected king of the world Chaz ,
what will you change about our society ,,,????
do you have any plan ,or are you just here to criticize those who do ,,???

My plan is to educate people to think, and to choose for themselves.

[Godfree]

Chaz , you sound like your as old as sob and myself 54 ,
but your philosophy is about that of a 5 year old ,
ignore it and it will go away , not a shit show in hell , it will only get bigger ,
you don't actually have a plan , you havn't thought it that far through,
I have , I have been through getting rid of religion and looking at society and the jobs religion used to do , these jobs will still need doing ,
if religion is not going to do them someone/thing else will have to , these jobs are mainly looking after the poor and the stupid , the drunks and the junkies ,
society will still have just as many of these after religion as before ,who do you imagine is going to take over these responsibilities ,
regardless of wether you call it as belief system a church or a religion ,
we are going to need an organization to do these jobs ,
who do you imagine will do it , government , ???
social welfare ,benefits , the dole ,,etc ,
there are many countries who don't have these things ,
religion plays the role of the social welfare department ,
it's funded by government , so why not ,,??
So Chaz , you havn't made it clear , who will replace religion ,
if it's government , many want less government not more ,,??
sounds like you should move to Sweden ,huge tax ,
but the government takes care of everything ,
is that the society you want Chaz ,
I presume you imagine , the fundamentalists are going to give up their ,religion , their belief system , to have nothing like you,,!!!
well that aint going to happen either ,
you really are living in fantasy land if you think people are going to be happy with no belief system ,
And just to correct your incorrect assumption ,
my "belief system" does not rely on believing ,
my "belief system" is like your Atheism ,
it is based on the facts and the science , you seem to be suggesting ,
I rely on faith for my Atheism ,
that is a complete lie , total bullshit and not based on what I have posted ,
but want you imagine I posted , what you imagine I meant ,
please Quote any posts I have made that rely on faith ,
or where I say I believe in things I can't prove ,??
or any sort of proof that your claim I'm a religion is credible ,
you are in your own little world Chaz ,
your not describing me or my belief system ,
so who are you talking about ,, ???

[chaz wyman]

Chaz , you sound like your as old as sob and myself 54 ,
but your philosophy is about that of a 5 year old ,

You heard of the hard of hearing?
You are the hard of thinking.
You are trying to turn a respectable position'; atheism, into a moron's charter.

If I believe in anything I beleive in free thinking.
I don't give a rat's arse what you believe, as long as you can justify it before you can treat it as knowledge.
There are some things you cannot 'know", those you have to set aside whether or not you want to beleive them or not.
They are irrelevant. If you insist on basing your life on unjustified beliefs then that makes you irrelevant and part of the problem, because it is BELIEF that is the problem.
As you cannot justify you belief system, you cannot have knowledge of the things you claim.

[Godfree]

Chaz , you sound like your as old as sob and myself 54 ,
but your philosophy is about that of a 5 year old ,

You heard of the hard of hearing?
You are the hard of thinking.
You are trying to turn a respectable position'; atheism, into a moron's charter.

If I believe in anything I beleive in free thinking.
I don't give a rat's arse what you believe, as long as you can justify it before you can treat it as knowledge.
There are some things you cannot 'know", those you have to set aside whether or not you want to beleive them or not.
They are irrelevant. If you insist on basing your life on unjustified beliefs then that makes you irrelevant and part of the problem, because it is BELIEF that is the problem.
As you cannot justify you belief system, you cannot have knowledge of the things you claim.

I can have knowledge and do justify my beliefs to my satisfaction ,
But before you slide out and get away with this ranting and raving you have been doing about my Faith based Atheism ,
You have a faith based Atheism not me ,
I say I can prove god doesn't exist , therefore I don't need faith ,
you say you can't prove god doesn't exist , therefore you take it on faith that there is no god ,
you are the person who can't prove god doesn't exist not me ,
I have noticed in life , people often accuse others of being what they are themselves , and there is a fairly obvious reason for this ,
that is what you understand , that is your knowledge ,it's not me or my knowledge , your not describing me or my belief system ,
you are describing yourself , you are the one who "can't" know

[chaz wyman]

Chaz , you sound like your as old as sob and myself 54 ,
but your philosophy is about that of a 5 year old ,

You heard of the hard of hearing?
You are the hard of thinking.
You are trying to turn a respectable position'; atheism, into a moron's charter.

If I believe in anything I beleive in free thinking.
I don't give a rat's arse what you believe, as long as you can justify it before you can treat it as knowledge.
There are some things you cannot 'know", those you have to set aside whether or not you want to beleive them or not.
They are irrelevant. If you insist on basing your life on unjustified beliefs then that makes you irrelevant and part of the problem, because it is BELIEF that is the problem.
As you cannot justify you belief system, you cannot have knowledge of the things you claim.

I can have knowledge and do justify my beliefs to my satisfaction ,

You alone.

But before you slide out and get away with this ranting and raving you have been doing about my Faith based Atheism ,
You have a faith based Atheism not me ,
I say I can prove god doesn't exist , therefore I don't need faith ,
you say you can't prove god doesn't exist , therefore you take it on faith that there is no god ,
you are the person who can't prove god doesn't exist not me ,
But you have faith that you can prove the non existence of god, but it is clear that you cannot so you have faith in a thing for which you have no basis.

I have noticed in life , people often accuse others of being what they are themselves , and there is a fairly obvious reason for this ,
And that is exactly what you are doing now.
The irony is that I can argue against the existence of god better than you can.
I have thought about it longer that you and know that an opinion is not a proof.
Let's face it you have fuck all to help you prove it one way or the other.
that is what you understand , that is your knowledge ,it's not me or my knowledge , your not describing me or my belief system ,
you are describing yourself , you are the one who "can't" know

Is this a joke. You accuse me of FAITH and then insist that I can't know. You have the second part right. There are things you can't know.
You would do well to take that on. But Faith is the assumption of the right to know regardless of evidence - that is YOU.
Show me the evidence that god does not exist and then we can discuss it. You might find at the end of it you will have better ammunition against the theists?

This is a typical psychological phenomenon of reversion. You are under attack with nothing to back you up, so you try to accuse me of your mistakes.
You need to show your proof. Fact is you can't. Case Closed.
Why not try this website for some inspiration?
http://www.nzarh.org.nz/index.htm
You might even finds some friends there.

[Godfree]

If I believe in anything I beleive in free thinking.
I don't give a rat's arse what you believe, as long as you can justify it before you can treat it as knowledge.
There are some things you cannot 'know", those you have to set aside whether or not you want to beleive them or not.
They are irrelevant. If you insist on basing your life on unjustified beliefs then that makes you irrelevant and part of the problem, because it is BELIEF that is the problem.
As you cannot justify you belief system, you cannot have knowledge of the things you claim.[/quote]

I can have knowledge and do justify my beliefs to my satisfaction ,

You alone.

But before you slide out and get away with this ranting and raving you have been doing about my Faith based Atheism ,
You have a faith based Atheism not me ,
I say I can prove god doesn't exist , therefore I don't need faith ,
you say you can't prove god doesn't exist , therefore you take it on faith that there is no god ,
you are the person who can't prove god doesn't exist not me ,
But you have faith that you can prove the non existence of god, but it is clear that you cannot so you have faith in a thing for which you have no basis.

I have noticed in life , people often accuse others of being what they are themselves , and there is a fairly obvious reason for this ,
And that is exactly what you are doing now.
The irony is that I can argue against the existence of god better than you can.
I have thought about it longer that you and know that an opinion is not a proof.
Let's face it you have fuck all to help you prove it one way or the other.
that is what you understand , that is your knowledge ,it's not me or my knowledge , your not describing me or my belief system ,
you are describing yourself , you are the one who "can't" know

Is this a joke. You accuse me of FAITH and then insist that I can't know. You have the second part right. There are things you can't know.
You would do well to take that on. But Faith is the assumption of the right to know regardless of evidence - that is YOU.
Show me the evidence that god does not exist and then we can discuss it. You might find at the end of it you will have better ammunition against the theists?

This is a typical psychological phenomenon of reversion. You are under attack with nothing to back you up, so you try to accuse me of your mistakes.
You need to show your proof. Fact is you can't. Case Closed.
Why not try this website for some inspiration?
http://www.nzarh.org.nz/index.htm
You might even finds some friends there.

[/quote][/quote]
There are some things YOU can't know ,
therefore on what/how do YOU decide that there is no god ,
faith , hope ,charity , if YOU can't prove god doesn't exist ,
on what are you basing your belief ,????????????
FAITH ,,by any chance , or is this reality according to Chaz ,
If YOU can't prove god exists , You must believe it is possible ,,???
if you don't think it is ,has ,can be proven ,then your supporting or defending the concept of god, my Atheism reassures people that we can prove it ,
what they hell use is a belief system , that has nothing can prove nothing ,
why bother , I think you really suit Skeptic more than Atheist ,
to my mind you give Atheism a bad name ,
you give people the wrong idea about Atheism ,
you portray it as useless , and not worth bothering with ,
but your supportive of christian organizations,,?????
I get the feeling Chaz , you don't imagine it will ever change ,
and I don't think you can handle the idea of change ,
Change is the ONLY constant ,

[chaz wyman]

There are some things YOU can't know ,
Dah - its very flattering to se you repeat me. But I think you are now getting yourself confused over who said what.

therefore on what/how do YOU decide that there is no god ,
faith , hope ,charity , if YOU can't prove god doesn't exist ,
on what are you basing your belief ,????????????

It's you with the belief - remember?

FAITH ,,by any chance , or is this reality according to Chaz ,
If YOU can't prove god exists , You must believe it is possible ,,???

That does not follow. It all depends on what you mean by god.

if you don't think it is ,has ,can be proven ,then your supporting or defending the concept of god, my Atheism reassures people that we can prove it ,

You are a donkey. And I am getting fed up with your constant hee yahhh.
Either prove god does not exist or stop.
Put up or shut up!

what they hell use is a belief system , that has nothing can prove nothing ,
why bother , I think you really suit Skeptic more than Atheist ,

I'm a skeptic too (most true atheists are), and a sculptor; a teacher; a patient; a friend, a rationalist and a free thinker.
No label can ever exhaust the multitude of things I am, and can become. Whereas you seem to be stuck in a rut that you can't even justify. You claim to have a belief system but it cannot exist without THeism. That is a pretty shitty place to be- the bitch of the god-botherers.

to my mind you give Atheism a bad name ,
you give people the wrong idea about Atheism ,
you portray it as useless , and not worth bothering with ,
but your supportive of christian organizations,,?????
I get the feeling Chaz , you don't imagine it will ever change ,
and I don't think you can handle the idea of change ,
Change is the ONLY constant ,

I love change. I used to be a prat exactly like you but I changed for the better.
Now prove god does not exist or fuck off.

[Godfree]

There are some things YOU can't know ,
Dah - its very flattering to se you repeat me. But I think you are now getting yourself confused over who said what.

therefore on what/how do YOU decide that there is no god ,
faith , hope ,charity , if YOU can't prove god doesn't exist ,
on what are you basing your belief ,????????????

It's you with the belief - remember?

FAITH ,,by any chance , or is this reality according to Chaz ,
If YOU can't prove god exists , You must believe it is possible ,,???

That does not follow. It all depends on what you mean by god.

if you don't think it is ,has ,can be proven ,then your supporting or defending the concept of god, my Atheism reassures people that we can prove it ,

You are a donkey. And I am getting fed up with your constant hee yahhh.
Either prove god does not exist or stop.
Put up or shut up!

what they hell use is a belief system , that has nothing can prove nothing ,
why bother , I think you really suit Skeptic more than Atheist ,

I'm a skeptic too (most true atheists are), and a sculptor; a teacher; a patient; a friend, a rationalist and a free thinker.
No label can ever exhaust the multitude of things I am, and can become. Whereas you seem to be stuck in a rut that you can't even justify. You claim to have a belief system but it cannot exist without THeism. That is a pretty shitty place to be- the bitch of the god-botherers.

to my mind you give Atheism a bad name ,
you give people the wrong idea about Atheism ,
you portray it as useless , and not worth bothering with ,
but your supportive of christian organizations,,?????
I get the feeling Chaz , you don't imagine it will ever change ,
and I don't think you can handle the idea of change ,
Change is the ONLY constant ,

I love change. I used to be a prat exactly like you but I changed for the better.
Now prove god does not exist or fuck off.

Gee Chaz , when did Rick make you the moderator,,???
you only tackle the parts of my posts you feel you can challenge ,
REALITY IS AN INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE ,
now what part of that statement do you not understand ,,??
I can prove many things , but does that mean you will get it ,,??
evolution has been proven over and over again ,!!!!
do religious fundamentalists see this as proof ,???
no , they don't ,, does this mean it's not proven ,
no it doesn't , what it means , is
"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think ,"
I'm sure you remember the quote ,
I will ask you again ,,What would you consider proof ,,?????
is there anything that I or anyone else could say that to you was proof ,
isn't it the case that you will not accept any proof ,
because like a fundamentalist , you are stuck in your belief ,
you keep asking for proof , I keep giving it to you , but you don't get it ,
I'll try again,Homeopathy ,,has been completely exposed as a nonsense ,
they have been selling pure water , but they still believe ,
people still buy Homeopathy products , the hard core believers ,
will not be dissuaded , Homeopathy is doing business still today ,
does this mean the proof it is bullshit ,was not real proof,,???
or does it mean , people only believe what they want to ,
it's got very little to do with reality , all about what they want ,
you will continue to rant and rave about the lack of proof ,
after I have buried you in the stuff ,!!!!
So you tell me Chaz , you keep asking for the proof ,
like you would recognize it if you saw it ,, what does it look like ,
this proof you keep asking for , describe it ,what proof are you talking about ,
is there a specific statement your looking for ,
are you asking for the impossible , in your mind ,
if you believe there is no proof , nothing I say will be considered proof by you ,
you have prejudiced your decision making and cannot imagine ,
that there is any proof ,so your just mucking me around for your entertainment ,
you believe there is no proof , so your asking me for something you don't believe exists , it would be like me asking a christian to prove god exists ,
unless they are going to come up with a person , I can talk to who claims to be god and can demonstrate to me it is a god ,
then I won't believe a word of it ,
and you won't believe a word of my proof ,
because you have already decided it doesn't exist,
you have a closed mind ,, !!!

[chaz wyman]

Gee Chaz , when did Rick make you the moderator,,???
you only tackle the parts of my posts you feel you can challenge ,
REALITY IS AN INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE ,
now what part of that statement do you not understand ,,??
I can prove many things , but does that mean you will get it ,,??
evolution has been proven over and over again ,!!!!
do religious fundamentalists see this as proof ,???
no , they don't ,, does this mean it's not proven ,
no it doesn't , what it means , is
"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think ,"
I'm sure you remember the quote ,
I will ask you again ,,What would you consider proof ,,?????
is there anything that I or anyone else could say that to you was proof ,
isn't it the case that you will not accept any proof ,
because like a fundamentalist , you are stuck in your belief ,
you keep asking for proof , I keep giving it to you , but you don't get it ,
I'll try again,Homeopathy ,,has been completely exposed as a nonsense ,
they have been selling pure water , but they still believe ,
people still buy Homeopathy products , the hard core believers ,
will not be dissuaded , Homeopathy is doing business still today ,
does this mean the proof it is bullshit ,was not real proof,,???
or does it mean , people only believe what they want to ,
it's got very little to do with reality , all about what they want ,
you will continue to rant and rave about the lack of proof ,
after I have buried you in the stuff ,!!!!
So you tell me Chaz , you keep asking for the proof ,
like you would recognize it if you saw it ,, what does it look like ,
this proof you keep asking for , describe it ,what proof are you talking about ,
is there a specific statement your looking for ,
are you asking for the impossible , in your mind ,
if you believe there is no proof , nothing I say will be considered proof by you ,
you have prejudiced your decision making and cannot imagine ,
that there is any proof ,so your just mucking me around for your entertainment ,
you believe there is no proof , so your asking me for something you don't believe exists , it would be like me asking a christian to prove god exists ,
unless they are going to come up with a person , I can talk to who claims to be god and can demonstrate to me it is a god ,
then I won't believe a word of it ,
and you won't believe a word of my proof ,
because you have already decided it doesn't exist,
you have a closed mind ,, !!!

Can you prove god does not exist or not?

[Godfree]

Yes Chaz I can prove god doesn't exist ,
can you understand my posts , the previous post asked you a lot of questions and I get back , the same lame question you have been asking for ages now ,
you didn't address any of my questions , so lets try again,
WHAT WOULD YOU CONSIDER PROOF ?
WOULD YOU RECOGNIZE PROOF IF YOU SAW IT??
IF YOU BELIEVE THERE IS NO PROOF THEN NO PROOF WILL PERSUADE YOU
So you tell me Chaz ,
I can tell you what I would consider proof of god ,
god would have to make an appearance , national TV would do ,
so you tell me ,
what would you accept as proof there is no god ,
I'm presuming you will say there is nothing I could say
that you would consider proof , because you don't want to there to be proof ,
you don't believe proof exists , so why keep asking
for an answer you don't want to hear ,,????