Science , Fiction or Fact

[Arising_uk]

... Why should believing that there is a supreme being benefit a component of society moreso than one that believes there is not? ...

Its a good question why should believing in a 'supreme being' entitle one to a tax-break?

[Hanuman]

... Why should believing that there is a supreme being benefit a component of society moreso than one that believes there is not? ...

Its a good question why should believing in a 'supreme being' entitle one to a tax-break?

Who said the guys living it up tax-free actually believe?

I agree. You should be free to worship anyone, anything, or nothing. This is basically freedom of thought. But, why bake sales, the donation plates, and church fairs are tax-free is beyond me. Is a church more deserving of this benefit than say someone buying food or clothing for themselves or their family? (Especially, in this economy).

[chaz wyman]

I am not trapped Chaz ,,
you are trapped in misconceptions ,
you may perceive my Atheism as a religion , but I disagree ,

A system of belief, then. What is the difference? None!

you put your label on me , and then proceed to tell me who I am,
the label is incorrect , I'm not who or what you think I am ,

I am merely reflecting your own claims and words.

my Atheism is no more a religion , than logic or science are religions ,

Niether logic nor true science relies on any kind of belief. Logic is a system of reason, and science is a system of knowledge based on evidence and reason. Neither rely on any faith. You do.
You continually make claims that have no basis or meaning.

I applied to the NZ government for a charitable trust under the theme of Atheism , and was turned down , because Atheism is not a religion ,

You should have told them what you meant by it, and then slam them for discriminating against you.

one lawyer thought they might get it in as a religion ,
but not seen as a religion , not by the government , western democracy ,
so by what standard are you calling Atheism a religion ,
and is this just my Atheism thats a religion , and yours is not,???
no doubt Chaz yours is perfect , your an Atheist ,,you see your beginner level philosophy , as the right one , it is you who can't move on Chaz ,

I keep telling you that my Atheism is contentless. Are you really too dull to get it. Acephalic means having no brain. Since you have one, why not use it? Think about it.

it is not enough to answer the god question , after we realize , NO ,
that the world is trapped in madness ,
in order to move on we must then ask the next question ,
I could ask you what that should be , but you havn't moved on yet so you wouldn't know , the question is , "what are we going to do about it"
to realize the world is lost in madness , is not enough ,
we must then come up with a plan to fix it ,,!!!!!

Dogma, dogma, dogma.


So whats your plan Chaz ,,???
how are you going to fix it ,,???????

I do not pretent to have s system of belief that will cure the world of ills. Many have tried. That is what a religion is, And that is what you are promoting.

[xenuwonder]

All hail Godfree, leader of the Athiest Church!!!!!

You are the next Billy Graham Godfree.

You are as envangelical as a Virginian Southern Baptist minister.

Take your Religion disguised as Athiesm and shove it.

And I've told you before, lay off the brown acid man...It's no good for you.

You're pedling of this so called "athiesm" you claim to follow and live by is as bad as religious nutters preaching their bullshit.

There is no difference. You can't save the world man. Wake up and smell the roses.

Any more cliches??? I'm sure there are.

Asalam a lakom.

Xenuwonder.....Out.

[Hanuman]

Perhaps I'm off-topic a bit, but after following this thread, it dawned on me that there are different types of atheists out there.

1) There is no god, but is not too bothered by others who think so.
2) There is no god, and thinks those that do believe are idiots.
3) There is no god, but people need to be told this and have their eyes opened to the truth.
4) Pretty sure there isn't a god, mainly based on logic, but open to the possibility of something out there.
Did I miss any?

I'd put myself somewhere between group 4 & 1, with a small dash of group 2.

[Godfree]

All hail Godfree, leader of the Athiest Church!!!!!

You are the next Billy Graham Godfree.

You are as envangelical as a Virginian Southern Baptist minister.

Take your Religion disguised as Athiesm and shove it.

And I've told you before, lay off the brown acid man...It's no good for you.

You're pedling of this so called "athiesm" you claim to follow and live by is as bad as religious nutters preaching their bullshit.

There is no difference. You can't save the world man. Wake up and smell the roses.

Any more cliches??? I'm sure there are.

Asalam a lakom.

Xenuwonder.....Out.

You poor poor simpletons ,
leave it up to you lot and what will we get ,,,NOWHERE ,, the status quo ,
too frightened to move off the spot your on , can't move off the spot your on because you really can't tell the difference or see the point,
if we do nothing , RELIGION WINS ,
they have the numbers and the funds to slowly but surely win the battle ,
and our society will not have moved forward , but backwards ,
as is happening in a lot of western countries at the moment ,
because the old world , primitive cultures are all moving in and bringing their old time religion with them ,
politicians are sucking up to the new migrants for the vote ,
I say , I can do better than the superstitious religion we have now , I'm prepared to replace it ,
and you lot of intellectual liliputions can't even see why one should bother ,
you would prefer the madness we have today , to the facts and the science ,
are you all secretly religious fundamentalists or something ,
or why is it your so protective and determined to keep the status quo,,???

[chaz wyman]

Perhaps I'm off-topic a bit, but after following this thread, it dawned on me that there are different types of atheists out there.

1) There is no god, but is not too bothered by others who think so.
2) There is no god, and thinks those that do believe are idiots.
3) There is no god, but people need to be told this and have their eyes opened to the truth.
4) Pretty sure there isn't a god, mainly based on logic, but open to the possibility of something out there.
Did I miss any?

I'd put myself somewhere between group 4 & 1, with a small dash of group 2.

Yes, me. I am an atheist and not an Atheist. I have not been convinced by arguments claiming that a thing called god exists. This says nothing about me, and the fact that I am an atheist does not involve me in believing in ANYTHING.

Additionally I think most Theists are dangerous and stupid, but that has nothing to do with my atheism,as such, as this is not based on my rejection of any particular argument that they offer - mostly because they do not have an argument for the existence of god in any way.

So Atheism is not a positive label that aligns me with other like me; atheism is just a marker so say that I do not think version sof god are viable or believable.

[chaz wyman]

All hail Godfree, leader of the Athiest Church!!!!!

You are the next Billy Graham Godfree.

You are as envangelical as a Virginian Southern Baptist minister.

Take your Religion disguised as Athiesm and shove it.

And I've told you before, lay off the brown acid man...It's no good for you.

You're pedling of this so called "athiesm" you claim to follow and live by is as bad as religious nutters preaching their bullshit.

There is no difference. You can't save the world man. Wake up and smell the roses.

Any more cliches??? I'm sure there are.

Asalam a lakom.

Xenuwonder.....Out.

You poor poor simpletons ,
leave it up to you lot and what will we get ,,,NOWHERE ,, the status quo ,
too frightened to move off the spot your on , can't move off the spot your on because you really can't tell the difference or see the point,
if we do nothing , RELIGION WINS ,
they have the numbers and the funds to slowly but surely win the battle ,
and our society will not have moved forward , but backwards ,
as is happening in a lot of western countries at the moment ,
because the old world , primitive cultures are all moving in and bringing their old time religion with them ,
politicians are sucking up to the new migrants for the vote ,
I say , I can do better than the superstitious religion we have now , I'm prepared to replace it ,
and you lot of intellectual liliputions can't even see why one should bother ,
you would prefer the madness we have today , to the facts and the science ,
are you all secretly religious fundamentalists or something ,
or why is it your so protective and determined to keep the status quo,,???

Rubbish.
It is your way that is the problem because you are a mimic of religion with all its inherent problems.
All your approach will do is to further retrench Theistic beliefs by giving them something to rail against.

The only viable response to your type of tyranny and theirs to to respond with; "I would prefer not to."

[Godfree]

Chaz ,, so you wouldn't join the revolution ,,???
you would defend the status quo , dig in and fight till the end ,
till they drag you out from under the bridge or whatever it was you were hiding under ,?? big call Chaz
I want to lead the revolution , and you want to be Gadaffi ,
You can moan all you like about Theists , but if your not prepared to do something about it , why moan ,if you don't want religion replaced ,
your just another brick in the wall ,
if you will try and stop the movement to change ,
your holding us back , not guiding us forward ,
The current religious dictatorship we have in the west ,
is not acceptable , I believe we must change it ,
not only do I have to take on the religious nutters but I have to deal with the Chazs of this world too ,
just another p**** in the wall,
left up to you lot , what will change , when will it change ,
what will it change into ,
you have no idea , but you want to shoot down the person who does have the idea ,,????
,you are simply saying you prefer religion ,,!!!

[chaz wyman]

Chaz ,, so you wouldn't join the revolution ,,???

Which revolution? A revolution is not a thing that happens and is over, it is a process which can never end.

you would defend the status quo , dig in and fight till the end ,

You are proposing a different status quo, that is an end of revolution.
Why should I trade one utopia for your utopia?

till they drag you out from under the bridge or whatever it was you were hiding under ,?? big call Chaz

It is you that is hiding under a bridge of your dogma, not I.


I want to lead the revolution , and you want to be Gadaffi ,

That makes you sound like a moron.

You can moan all you like about Theists , but if your not prepared to do something about it , why moan ,if you don't want religion replaced ,

I am doing something about it. I argue against it. But you sound like the same old same old to me.

your just another brick in the wall ,
if you will try and stop the movement to change ,

And you have already built your new wall around yourself.

your holding us back , not guiding us forward ,

You are stuck, going no where.

The current religious dictatorship we have in the west ,
is not acceptable , I believe we must change it ,
not only do I have to take on the religious nutters but I have to deal with the Chazs of this world too ,

I'm not in the business of trading one dictatorship for your dictatorship.

just another p**** in the wall,
left up to you lot , what will change , when will it change ,
what will it change into ,

I have already changed. You are stuck in the mud of your own making. I'm way ahead of you.
You are nothing without Theism. I have left that behind. It has to be up to the individual. You are proposing a new dogma a new creed; I propose personal choice.



you have no idea , but you want to shoot down the person who does have the idea ,,????
,you are simply saying you prefer religion ,,!!!

You are getting boring, just like your theist brothers. You keep wanting to convert me to your thinking.

[chaz wyman]

To Godfree

You say God does not exist.

Prove it!

[Arising_uk]

...

I want to lead the revolution , and you want to be Gadaffi ...

,
That makes you sound like a moron. ...

Not least because Gadaffi lead a revolution!

[chaz wyman]

...

I want to lead the revolution , and you want to be Gadaffi ...

,
That makes you sound like a moron. ...

Not least because Gadaffi lead a revolution!

Indeed!!!!!

[attofishpi]

Its 7am and i've just awoken to a breath of fresh air...love this thread!

[Godfree]

To Godfree

You say God does not exist.

Prove it!

Firstly we would have to define god ,,
then we would have to agree upon what constituted proof ,,???
then it would be fairly easy , but you will have a different proof ,
a different definition of god and a different conclusion drawn .
God as in all knowing all powerful , western christianity,creator .
Is it possible to be all knowing and all powerful ,,????
the bible and the koran , don't appear to be all knowing ,,!!!
nor do any other book of religion, if god is all knowing , he's keeping it to himself ,,!!!
all powerful , if we have any faith in modern physics , we would see all powerful, as trying to reach the speed of light,
it would take a whole galaxy's worth of energy to get there,
I would question what gods fuel source is ,,what sustains it ,,???
there doesn't seem to be any logical way a god could store or organize energy and information without a physical being to hold the info and manage the knowledge , just the same as a spirit or ghost has the same lack of logic ,
When would then be drawn into giving the chances of such a being existing a probability out of 100 ,,
that god could be all knowing ,,can't see how it could know anything ,
I would give it zero % chance of being all knowing ,
All powerful , just seems impossible on almost every level I can imagine ,
I would give that a zero chance of being possible ,
Creator , I find this idea completely illogical ,
if we came to be because of a creator ,
what made the creator come to be , and it's creator come to be ad infinitum ,
Evolution seems the process regardless of what scale or thing in the universe , ie stars and planets are evolving , galaxies are evolving ,
the universe is evolving , ad infinitum ,,!!!
So , another zero % chance of being real ,
Now you may be a bit more generous and give it 60 40 or 70 30 ,
whatever, when you ad them together I get ,
Zero chance god is real ,
What chance do you give ,,???