SpheresOfBalance wrote:lancek4 wrote:One thing at a time
lancek4 wrote:For example: Chaz's 'atheism'. He says it has 'no content' in that as a poisition it is simply a negation of that which has "content', namely, theism.
Yet one cannot exist without the other, together they supply a 'true' reality: the condition of knowledge.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:While it's true that the words and thus their concepts cannot exist for humans without the other, the objects referenced in their meaning can exist despite our knowledge as well as independent of each other.
lancek4 wrote:----LK4: I'm sorry SOB, I gotta ask again: how do you know this? How do you know that there is an absolute object if exactly when you would find it in understanding it too would be questioned? How would you know when you found this 'actual true thing'.
I offer an answer: exactly when you realize it.
Apparently you missed the word 'can,' which makes all the difference in the world, you should slow down and read more effectively. Try again!
Firat with ref to atheism: which is the True object? Theism or atheism?
Next: if we can know the True object, what is preventing us?
How about a different tact:
What is the point of having a 'truth'? What do we gain from have a Truth? Or, what do we gain from having a Truth that we can know, but do not presenntly know?
See Lance, this is one of my understandings, that I had thought I had made known to you, but maybe it was Chaz in a half assed way in my PNF infancy, I thank you primarily, for allowing me to grow in my articulation. It's one thing to have it in your head, but it's another to make in known in discourse, again thank you! 
We are all born with variable blinders on, that are fully shut at birth, such that we can't see anything, slowly they begin to open but they are only capable of seeing one way, which is from the subject towards all the objects, 'out there.' As such 'in here' is always the perspective of most. But there are a select few that can reverse this perspective. It is not to say that they know all, I scoff at the notion, but it is to say that they get an inkling of denying the self and seeing a much larger picture, the all of us. Thus allows for the possibility of seeing the self for what it truly is, pretty much this and nothing more, but it's invaluable.
Do we have to gain now, it was you that joked about US standing for me me me me, but the US is not the exclusive delineation of this problem, it exists everywhere. And actually I'm surprised that 'you' fell into that perspective trap, as I expected the others to fall. It is the individual that this is true for, and not a group as then you fall into the groupism trap of saying nothing definitive as it's a shallow generalization, and meaningless.
We don't have to gain now, but we could use the 'hope' that we shall eventually. And I would go so far as to say that this perspective of saying that it's 'out there (having hope),' from the perspective of 'out there' looking 'in there,' which is what I try and do, actually, more readily, lends to the understanding of whats 'out there.' So then this perspective has the capability of aiding one in understanding absolute truths that are currently unknown.
That is the value of acknowledging that which we do not know as out there. Knowing (acknowledging) that you do not know, more readily gives way to the knowing; So says Socrates! And I've found it to be true.[/quote]
I appreciate your explication of view, its merits.
I offer a complimentary view.
Given, that yours is a noble and worthy venture into living.
What could be more humbling to a Self than, with your view in mind, as one procedes, to see all that 'other' as the entirety of one's self expressed in the world. Where (with a nod to Bill's) the 'I' is merely a segragation of perspective that 'calls into existance' the separate other by which to become 'Self'.
Would not I, in keeping with the Golden Rule: do unto others...then be even more motivated, indeed, compelled to do my Self righteously if this other, this Object, is really 'me'. Would not I then endeavor even more ernestly to see where I have created, how I am, this Other, this Absolute Object, in the likeness of myself, the opposite yet concordant, complimentary -- the whole world. ?
