Who can know all there is about anyone? Who ever always tells the truth? A large chunk appear to have stopped faking such things, unless its for the big bucks I suppose. Apart from greed I don't understand the idea of saying I love you and not meaning it and I doubt its much of a common occurrence over here, but I don't doubt it occurs, its not just a common theme any more I think. Of the women I've met only a couple would I think behave as you describe.AS:Okay, fair enough. I have a couple of questions though, you say you only know 2 women who behave as I describe. First, what do you feel I am describing? I want to see if we are talking about the same thing, as I feel as if you are not looking at what I am saying objectively and instead are looking at what I am saying as a negative thing about women.
Here's what baffles me, that in a philosophy forum it should be so hard to have a real chat about human nature musings without bringing in our personal feelings on the subject. All my life I have had this discussion...and I am amazed at the amount of people who do not wish to see it...but then...years later...after I had mentioned my curiosity about such things, the same people start taking notice because I have planted a seed. Years later come to me with the same musings about human nature as if it was their "discovery.' It always makes me laugh the the very thing they scoffed at me about years before...saying I was off my rocker...they begin telling me about as if it was this great epiphany they've had!
All I wish is just for once people don't take what I am saying so personally and rather stand back like a scientist and just view human nature without including themselves in the factor....simply because when you first begin to question such things it's hard...because it is unflattering to admit such things might be the case...esp. when if they are the case for others...then it must be the case for oneself as it is very rare for human nature to skip a person. I mean sure it happens...I am sure out there there is a person who does not do the normal things humans do...like love, laugh, cry, hate, etc....but I feel it would be so rare as to not be applicable. So when I mention the things I am mentioning....I do not think it has to do with simply coming from a patriarchal culture or whatever. I am merely mentioning an observation I have made all my life about every woman I have met. I understand that you think it is different there. But what I am asking you to do is to question your beliefs so we can at least have a serious conversation.
The other question I have is about the "couple of women' you feel I am describing that you know. I have a feeling you see them negatively. Like they are not your favorite type people, not that you could hate anyone, I am just saying that they are'nt your fav. Is this true? The reason I am asking this is I think we have a tendency to not be able to see negative traits in people we favor as opposed to those we don't, even though being human we all have similar qualities just different ways of expressing them. What I am questioning is that this phenomenon I have noticed in women all my life is displayed in very different ways. Some are completely unaware of such behavior in themselves. I think because each and every one of us has trouble looking at ourselves as anything but the 'Heroin' in our mind. For example, like our discussion with the word "manipulative". Most of us do not wish to be associated with that word. It is an ugly word and the last thing we want to do is describe ourselves negatively. But in my view of things it is impossible for a human to be 100% of the time perfect with only positive attributes. But why then are we not able to hone in on those negative things about ourselves? I am asking you if you agree it would at least be improbable for a human to have no character flaws at all? If you agree with that then maybe we can take a closer look at those flaws in women in an objective way without resorting to "this woman is nice...this one is bad."
What I am getting at is if that it is improbable to you that humans only possess positive traits, then we could at least admit that even women we love might have a negative trait or two. Furthermore, it could be that we fool ourselves into not seeing certain personality traits in the ones we love the same way we see the same traits in those we do not particularly like? And if that is true then maybe we could extend that to ourselves and say, perhaps we can't see negative traits in ourselves as well? I am asking if it is possible that we see ourselves through rose colored glasses to the point of denial?
Semantics are at play here, I think. It has always interested me, how when I use words with negative connotations, people will refuse to accept that they behave in such a manner. However, when I switch the wordage...to something positive but meaning the exact same thing....the are quick to want to attribute that same quality to themselves.
I believe this is what women do without realizing (maybe men too...but I don't wish to discuss men right now...I want to see if everyone can stay on the topic of women without changing the subject as I feel that when things get too uncomfortable for people to admit or take a closer inspection, they have a tendency to change the subject.
Anyway, it has been my observation, that the people one likes...even oneself....are usually the ones we attach the positive attributes too. We may not notice the negative in people we like, even ourselves, because it is too painful to see. I mean who wants to think they might not be all that? However, when I talk about women it is very apparent to me that all women share this quality of deception as women rarely say the exact thing that is on their mind. And if they do it is hugely unpopular...sort of like me trying to have this conversation...lol.
The reason I want to have this conversation is because as a woman, I have noticed this dynamic all my life and it is so subtle that I don't think most men are aware of it happening. But let me give you an example of the positive aspect of this quality....you know when you are in love....like when it's new before anything has tarnished that love and it's full of promise? You know how it feels wonderful to feel as if someone get's you...is there for you...you feel a connection with? You know how it's kinda great for it to be you two against the world? Well, the woman feels the same way.
But then stop for a moment and think of this scenario. Suppose your lover had made a faux pah at a party with all your friends. And suppose you were a little embarrassed by it. Suppose in your embarrassment you gently tell her that she is mistaken and the other woman (who happens to be a knockout that every other man at the party desires) is correct. Do you really think your lover is going to be happy with that scenario? I don't think she is....simply because she wants you to be on her side. A woman does not want to feel less than...even if it's the truth. She will turn it around to where she was in the right....where she was Cinderella and the other woman was the evil step sister. Maybe not blatantly....she might just be silent...and when you ask her whats wrong she might say, "nothing." but inside she might feel as if she is less than the other woman in your eyes. She might even think that you believe she is the step sister and that you thought that the other women was cinderella. But to verbalize this feeling she might not be able to do....it depends on the women. Some women may give you the cold shoulder, some may completely and cleverly describe the situation in a way where everything is switched as to where she becomes right. And what's more...she might not even realize this is what she is doing! That is how deeply she thinks she is Cinderella where she is completely above all other women! Many women will find a way to work it out so that they will be the heroin in a situation with another woman....even if they have to do it through deception. Deception within themselves that is so deep seeded that there is no way to convince her that she is wrong. She will just not see it...and think you are not on her "side" if you try to get her to see it.
If you doubt this is true...then ask yourself, does it make sense to you that any woman would say, "I want my man to put that other woman on a pedestal because she is more deserving than I?"
