artisticsolution wrote:AS: Oh but I have read Fear and trembling. All of us have different life experiences, that is for sure. But it is impossible for us to try to control people, even though it may make us feel more secure, in the long run, life will play out like it is supposed to. ...
Oh the joy of having actually read a philosophy book eh! AS.
Depends what you were looking for I think. I tend not to read ratings. But c'mon, its one of the joys of philosophy to be able to reply to the "Read X before you ..." with "I have read X ...".
Not sure what you mean...but let me tell you a story to illustrate what I mean....
My average sized husband has a very large brother. Once we were all at an amusement park and they decided to go on one of those scary roller coasters...you know the ones...with the upside down loops and such. So my husbands heavy brother gets in first and then hubby gets in next to him. It is then my husband realizes that the bar that comes down to hold them in is being blocked from going all the way down across my husbands lap by his brothers girth. He says, "Hey man...suck it in a little! I'm going to fling out like a rag doll at the first loop!" His brother tried but to no avail....the bar would not come down any farther! Laughing he consoled my husband with a lame/absurd assurance , "Don't worry, safety restraints are highly overrated!" My husband simply accepted his fate and said laughing ," Okay man....but do me a favor....when I begin to fly out...grab hold of my ankle and pull me back in!"
My point being...all the moral condemnation in the world is not going to make anyone do anything. All the philosophy books are not going to help you control the nature of people either. People will be the same no matter what we do....some are fat some are thin...some are sluts and some are prudes...but you can't control that....so why not just control what you can...yourself.
artisticsolution wrote:W: And if to ask, wether or not to sacrifise your blood, better read Kierkegaard "Fear and Tremble" then lets talk about it again,
AS: Oh but I have read Fear and trembling. All of us have different life experiences, that is for sure. But it is impossible for us to try to control people, even though it may make us feel more secure, in the long run, life will play out like it is supposed to.
Gasp. Really Why didnt you see that by reading it? - quoting from memory: "Then I would deny God this offering, I wouldnt be like the forefather Abraham and my faith there lost, for objecting God... If I there to kill myself and say - 'take mine for his' this would be indeed a diligent stand before the people, but again not in the sence that Abraham was a forefather of faith. Only by realising the pain as it is, and not diminishing it by any means, I will get the position of Abraham, who was about to kill his beloved son for God. His son is going to die, and this is it. There is nothing after it, but fear and trembling and pain. But you have to obey God inorder to stay faithfull."
Or did you read another book called "fear and trembling" by Kierkegaard? One that was censored in estonia and I couldnt read? Nobody ever talked of controll. Stop trying to controll me.
We do serious damage to ourselves by jumping on that hamster wheel going round and round trying to create a world where there is no pain. What a futile and foolish attempt! Because just as soon as we've wasted so much time and energy on something that works itself out in the end anyway, we have lost the time we have to simply live.
Faith dies there is no pain. Stop being a fool on that matter.
We cause ourselves so much pain thinking the worst of people and for what? So they will change? They will never change...they are going to have sexual urges...they are going to lie...they are going to cheat....they will do horrible things to each other...why fret over it? get over it. It's just the way it is. Look in the mirror if you want to change someone. Change yourself. You want a life free of pain? Then tell yourself you do not feel pain! Believe that you don't feel pain. Instead, think to yourself, "That person must have his reason..." And then move on in kindness.
People are able to change, before my conversion to Christianity though I was ready at the age of 6 I got baptised at the age of 20 waiting 14 years. These 14 years I spent to theft from my grandfather to buy me friends at school; any sort of wirch-craft and other obscure teachings forbidden to Christians; Lieing and bulling my brother who was fat at that time and slow (now hes like Goliath even taller than me, though a year younger); reading all sorts of books from literature and philosophy what I call 'the basics' Then I used runes to get a link to the spirit world and it worked while attending to bible school. I was becoming a Satanist and ready to die, then on one day after going home from my church and being ready for the name changing ritual then on crossing a road I was filled with joy I last felt then I was 6.
I didnt wanted to be saved at that point I got but still God saved me. And I am a changed person.
And my mother is attending the same church for she is also a born-again christian. She is so strong that she has raised 2 sons alone having 4 jobs and doing so much that any feminist organisation would fight for having her as the president of Estonia.
Only my brother is agnostic because I bullied him. You know nothing about me to have such claims only because I told you my sad story. You are just biased and hypocritical as usual.
Marcus Aurelius said, "Remove the judgement and you have removed the thought, 'I am hurt'. Remove the thought' 'I am hurt' and the hurt itself is removed."
What remarkable expression of ignorance. If I hit you, are you not hurt then youre removing the judgement "dont bully me"?
The problem is that most of us don't take the time to condition our mind the same way we would exercise our bodies. We allow junk thoughts to control our minds...instead of pure thoughts. Simply because we are lazy and it's easy to think negative than it is to think positive.
Agreed. Been there done that. Now am a born again Christian
I think you are falling into the trap of herd like behavior where you pick one group to demonize so you can be superior and control that group....and to make matters worse...it's usually the group or person who is weak in some way. It is because you are weak that you only kick a dog when he/she is down. Be different for a change...let's see you try to kick the person who is strong and on his game. You won't...because you know you will be defeated.
Please point out the group I did demonise, then you are trying to demonise Christianity in my eyes.
Stop being so predictable. Let's hear you speak of the wrong doings of Kierkegaard or Nietzsche or someone you consider higher status than you. Let's hear you speak of your own wrong doings for that matter. Have you ever given thought about that?
Why should I speak bad of my friends who helped me the most. But I tried once to write an essay about Nietzsche how bad he was and how good is Jesus. Because I havent read him and believed others words on Nietzsche that he is the Antichrist. I was starting to read "Thus spoke Zarathustra" but coultnt find any quote against the bible. I found much that helped my faith. Besides, I think highly of my family so your assumption is wrong from the beginning.
chaz wyman wrote:WHy did you ask him??
WHo gave YOU permission to tell others what they can and cannot do?
Well it is nice for you to know the mind of God, but what makes you think that others whom you criticise do not also know the mind of God?
Where the hell do you come from??
I took my part out again, to make my post smaller.
All Christians have the right to ask God, with two or free on the same mind the verdict is clear. So if I am wrong on my asset feel free to point me out. I am coming from a divorced family, and know what public moccery and hypocrasy works, and how it firstly damages the woman, before ever getting to blame the man. Because of that the girls parents and linage tend to demonise the man, and giving him no chanse to repent. A nice beating between men clears that issue and afterwards all are friends again without damaging the family. That is my ideal, havent seen it working in real world though.
So you 'took it out'?
Here it is back again,
You wrote:
I dont remember Jesus ever gave you permission to use his name.
That makes you an arrogant pig.
You can't generalise for your personal experience. And just because you come from a 'broken home' (boohoo!) does not give you the right to pretend that your version of god is any better than theirs.
You have not begun to answer my post here.
w:Gasp. Really Why didnt you see that by reading it? - quoting from memory: "Then I would deny God this offering, I wouldnt be like the forefather Abraham and my faith there lost, for objecting God... If I there to kill myself and say - 'take mine for his' this would be indeed a diligent stand before the people, but again not in the sence that Abraham was a forefather of faith. Only by realising the pain as it is, and not diminishing it by any means, I will get the position of Abraham, who was about to kill his beloved son for God. His son is going to die, and this is it. There is nothing after it, but fear and trembling and pain. But you have to obey God inorder to stay faithfull."
Or did you read another book called "fear and trembling" by Kierkegaard? One that was censored in estonia and I couldnt read? Nobody ever talked of controll. Stop trying to controll me.
AS: I think you really need to ask yourself who you follow. Is it God? Is it Kierkegaard? I don't think you have the slightest idea. I don't need Kierkegaard to tell me about God. I will follow my own mind and my own beliefs. I enjoy reading Kierkegaard, but he is just a man. He is not God. You seem to want to follow Kierkegaard idea of God. But this is exactly my point about people not thinking for themselves. In the 10 commandments it says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." And yet you quote Kierk back to me when I talk about what the actual 10 commandments tells us.As a Christian I am surprised you would not obey God's 10 commandments and instead choose to follow the teachings of kierk. I truly think you need to stop being a follower and stand up for your own convictions. In other words....be a man and pick a side. God'a word or kierks.
W:Only my brother is agnostic because I bullied him. You know nothing about me to have such claims only because I told you my sad story. You are just biased and hypocritical as usual.[/b]
AS: I really don't think your story has anything to do with anything I am saying. We all have our sad stories. What we do about them is up to us. All of us are hypocritical....all of us are biased at one time or another. We are human. But to justify bad behavior as if there is a God he wants us to be mean is wrong. I don't know why you are trying to argue against kindness? It baffles me with you being a Christian is all.
W:What remarkable expression of ignorance. If I hit you, are you not hurt then youre removing the judgement "dont bully me"?
AS: Obviously, you are jumping to conclusions. Humans, including me, are not perfect. God knows this. Gods tells us we are going to sin...there is no way around it. But the point, at least for me, is to at least try to do better the next time. I can't fathom how you believe that God wants us to be cruel to people we don't know when he said, "Love thy neighbor". I have told every man I have ever been with at the beginning of a relationship, "If you hit me you had better kill me....because when you least expect it...I will beat you so severely you will wish to die." Luckily most have heeded that warning...there was only one stupid one I broke his nose and never allow him near me again. But that is not a victory to me. That was a sin. I don't do a dance of joy...I repent inside. I pray for it never to happen again....because as a human...I don't know what I am capable of. So in answer to your question, I am a bully...but I don't think that is how God wants me to be from reading the 10 commandments. So everyday I wish to become a better person. But that is not what Marcus Aurelius meant...he meant that when we look upon another human for harming us....we can prevent that hurt if we remove the judgement of how we think about the individual. If we don't do that the hurt will continue to hurt us because we will always be mistrustful and suspicious. We will feel we have to hurt others even before they hurt us. It's the preemptive strike that makes us not be able to give or receive love. To me that is more painful than any punch. Because being suspicious all the time last a lifetime and may cause you to hurt another who never did anything to you.
W:Agreed. Been there done that. Now am a born again Christian
AS: Then why don't you trust God's commandments? It seems as if you are hell bent to do the opposite.
W:Please point out the group I did demonise, then you are trying to demonise Christianity in my eyes.
AS: You want to punish the wicked. I consider moral condemnation a form of punishment. That is God's judgment to make...not yours...imo. I do not demonize Christianity. I just don't understand why most of them do not follow the 10 commandments. Don't get me wrong. I know they are hard if not impossible to keep....but to justify the exact opposite of the 10 commandments boggles my mind. I mean...that are called commandments for a reason. You would rather follow Kierkkegaard's words than the 10 commandments. You would rather torment a girl with moral condemnation than love her. You would rather be in any body elses business but your own.
Stop being so predictable. Let's hear you speak of the wrong doings of Kierkegaard or Nietzsche or someone you consider higher status than you. Let's hear you speak of your own wrong doings for that matter. Have you ever given thought about that?[/quote]
W:Why should I speak bad of my friends who helped me the most.
AS:Did they help you more than God? Tell me...who do you really worship...these 'friends' or your God? Seems to me as if your trying to say....don't do what jesus does...do what Nietzsche does...like I said...pick a side...you can't have both if you wish to obey God and his 10 commandments.
Kayla wrote:
when i was around 11 i realized that i was good at kicking ass it did wonders for my self esteem
A lot of bullies would no doubt say the same.
no doubt
but i never picked on the smaller or wimpy kids or the unpopular kids
i have done some stupid things i have overreacted or got too vindictive but i was never a bully
its just that one day i realized that i had a very good reaction time and a high pain threshold and could use that to my advantage
Besides, you previously wrote that she had a habit of getting involved with guys who you thought weren't exactly good choices. Would the two of you beating up this one guy change her preferences or would you end up having to beat up the next one and the next and the next?
all things considered it is probably for the best that she lacks my mean streak
chaz wyman wrote:
No, instead you pour out your scorn and moral judgement on the Internet?? But don't have the courage to tell her to her face.
what scorn
i wrote that being a slut is a bad idea
i told as much to my friend and yes i used the word slut
Calling a person a slut IS a judgement of scorn.
How can you criticise others for moral judgement when you think it is okay to do it yourself?
when have i critizied anyone for making a moral judgement
Are you kidding? On the matter of purity rings, and on the matter of your elders alleged gender focus on the matter.
i might have criticized them for not providing a good justification for it, but not for the judgement itself
chaz wyman wrote:
Calling a person a slut IS a judgement of scorn.
what is your objection here
is it the word itself
or are you saying that being a slut is not in any way a bad thing at all
Now there's a loaded question for you.
Have you ever considered that not everyone might regard the girl you're referring to as a "slut", at least not in the pejorative sense that you mean it?
I always think of a 'slut' as a woman who does about as much housework as the average man does. (Cf slattern?) A woman who likes promiscuous sex about as much as the average man does is a 'slag'. I don't see either of them as wrong. They're just holding themselves independent of the common (ie sexist) judgement.
Oh the joy of having actually read a philosophy book eh! AS. 
Why didnt you see that by reading it? - quoting from memory: "Then I would deny God this offering, I wouldnt be like the forefather Abraham and my faith there lost, for objecting God... If I there to kill myself and say - 'take mine for his' this would be indeed a diligent stand before the people, but again not in the sence that Abraham was a forefather of faith. Only by realising the pain as it is, and not diminishing it by any means, I will get the position of Abraham, who was about to kill his beloved son for God. His son is going to die, and this is it. There is nothing after it, but fear and trembling and pain. But you have to obey God inorder to stay faithfull."
One that was censored in estonia and I couldnt read?
Nobody ever talked of controll. Stop trying to controll me.
I am coming from a divorced family, and know what public moccery and hypocrasy works, and how it firstly damages the woman, before ever getting to blame the man. Because of that the girls parents and linage tend to demonise the man, and giving him no chanse to repent. A nice beating between men clears that issue and afterwards all are friends again without damaging the family. That is my ideal, havent seen it working in real world though.
