The Big Bang is Busted

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Godfree
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Godfree »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Godfree wrote:The size of the known universe ,
now claimed to be 156 billion light year diameter ,
78 billion light years to the outer edge ,
and this matter got there in 13.7 billion years , thats on average 5 or 6 times the speed of light ,???
the universe does not seem to be sticking to Einsteins cosmic speed limit
The question is, which is incorrect?

A) 156 billion light year diameter?
,
B) 13.7 billion years?
,
C) Einsteins cosmic speed limit?
,
D) Some of the above?
,
E) All of the above?
, or
F) None of the above?

While I'm sure you'll have your favorite, others will have others!
since you seem incapable of working it out ,
C) the cosmic speed limit is wrong ,
matter traveled faster, neutrinos travel faster ,
and were just warming up .
you guys wouldn't make very good scientists ,
you seem too frightened to offer a theory of your own,
like it would be blasfamy , to challenge the written word
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Godfree wrote:Arising UK ,,
What I'm hearing from you is that I should stop challenging ,
and accept what I'm told ,???
that maybe the info is correct but I'm just too stupid or uninformed to see that ,
That is not what she is saying, but it suits your argument doesn't it! More correctly stupid should be eliminated and uninformed is better said as ignorant. Attend university and dig some more I'm sure that what she means is that there are probably things that one can only get in specific places of higher learning which is where most of the foremost experts reside. Once you hear and understand their reasoning and proofs you 'may' find a different view, if you're open and it makes sense to you.

The things you can find on the internet, while sometimes impressive, do not necessarily equate to that of the latest up to the second, knowledge of any particular subject, especially a science that seeks to answer the biggest questions of all. There are those subjects that are just so much constant research, and things change minutely.


I keep trying to make points and the response is ,
are you sure you understand their answer , learn more about them ,
but your not learning more about what I'm saying , or you would be drawing the same conclusions ,
"they expected to see young galaxies at the outer edge of our view , they were surprised to see old galaxies ."
this does not fit the story of the bb .
they have got a major spanner in the works ,
but most seem to be pointing their blind eye ,!!!

What you fail to see, which is right before your eyes, is that you use 'their' data to challenge 'their' data as if it's 'your' data, but if 'their' data seems to be incorrect where, A+B=C, I ask, which term is the one of error? That's that problem when viewing someone elses data from afar. It's impossible to see which data fails as you haven't viewed 'their' scratch paper. So your so called hypotheses are just so much spitting into the wind, like every other layman's, myself included, of course.
Last edited by SpheresOfBalance on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Godfree wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Godfree wrote:The size of the known universe ,
now claimed to be 156 billion light year diameter ,
78 billion light years to the outer edge ,
and this matter got there in 13.7 billion years , thats on average 5 or 6 times the speed of light ,???
the universe does not seem to be sticking to Einsteins cosmic speed limit
The question is, which is incorrect?

A) 156 billion light year diameter?
,
B) 13.7 billion years?
,
C) Einsteins cosmic speed limit?
,
D) Some of the above?
,
E) All of the above?
, or
F) None of the above?

While I'm sure you'll have your favorite, others will have others!
since you seem incapable of working it out ,
You seem to be incapable of understanding when someone is being rhetorical for the purpose of causing you to think. That must be your problem.

C) the cosmic speed limit is wrong ,
matter traveled faster, neutrinos travel faster ,
and were just warming up .
you guys wouldn't make very good scientists ,
Coming from you, this is a compliment, thanks!

you seem too frightened to offer a theory of your own,
Only a fool presumes, and projects his limitations as an answer to his sense of others possible flaws.

like it would be blasfamy , to challenge the written word
Son, I feel sorry for anyone that believes in the word, so I'm sorry Godfree, that you seem to be caught up in all that biblical BS. They can insnare you one way or the other. It's obvious they got you with the other.
Your mind is obviously CLOSED! Or maybe you're a megalomaniac.
To pick any particular set of their facts, from a sea of their facts, to align yourself with until hell freezes over says more about your inabilities than it does your abilities. You're definitely not a thinker just a hanger on!
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Arising_uk
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Arising_uk »

Godfree wrote:Arising UK ,,
What I'm hearing from you is that I should stop challenging ,
and accept what I'm told ,???
that maybe the info is correct but I'm just too stupid or uninformed to see that ,
I keep trying to make points and the response is ,
are you sure you understand their answer , learn more about them ,
but your not learning more about what I'm saying , or you would be drawing the same conclusions ,
"they expected to see young galaxies at the outer edge of our view , they were surprised to see old galaxies ."
this does not fit the story of the bb .
they have got a major spanner in the works ,
but most seem to be pointing their blind eye ,!!!
No, what you're hearing from me is that if, as a philosopher, you think your metaphysic is right and the current one of Astrophysics is wrong then you should be becoming an astrophysicist and proving it, you'll be a philosophical hero, instead of using your ideas in a campaign against religion and a paranoia about astrophysicists. We've pretty much given-up metaphysics in this sense in philosophy. From a philosopher of sciences point of view your using of English sentences to discuss what Physics does or doesn't expect with respect to experimental data ignores that what Physics does or doesn't say is expressed in Maths and its not a necessary thing that there is a model in English for such thinks.
Godfree
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Godfree »

The big bang THEORY , is one of many theories regarding the evolution of the universe .
to assume one is correct and the rest wrong , is a little premature,
to assume any of them are correct is more than science is prepared to do.
I find it entertaining to come up with other possibilities ,
don't you ,???
not only do we have big old galaxies at the outer limits of our view ,
but we also have an even spread of these galaxies not a tight spread near the bang site and wider further out , no an even spread ,
which also doesn't seem to fit this bb model .
I like to make predictions ,
At some point in the future ,
I believe they will drop the bbt , and replace it with a LBT .
keithprosser2
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by keithprosser2 »

I like to make predictions ,
At some point in the future ,
I believe they will drop the bbt , and replace it with a LBT .
One of the safest predictions you can make is that any scientific theory you care to name will need to be at least modified in the future.
Godfree
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Godfree »

keithprosser2 wrote:
I like to make predictions ,
At some point in the future ,
I believe they will drop the bbt , and replace it with a LBT .
One of the safest predictions you can make is that any scientific theory you care to name will need to be at least modified in the future.
in order to advance our thinking , we must challenge what is .
the current knowledge . BBT , Olbers Paradox , the rate of expansion is accelerating ,??? ,wormholes ,,time travel , parallel universe , etc
theres plenty of it to get in to there ,
don't be shy , most of it is easily pulled apart .
I'm still thinking as the galaxies accelerate away , (if thats what they are doing)
and they go past the speed of light faster than us ,
we would be losing ground to that image , and it would start to play backwards,
now that would really put a curve ball in their curved space..!!
Thundril
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Thundril »

Godfree wrote: C) the cosmic speed limit is wrong ,
matter traveled faster, neutrinos travel faster ,
and were just warming up .
you guys wouldn't make very good scientists ,
Very good scientists are the ones who, after months of careful research, running and re-running their experiment, said "Look, we're getting a result that doesn't fit the theory, and we can't see where we're going wrong. Or evin if we're going wrong. Would some of you other very good scientists come and check this out for us?

Very good scientists are not saying "Neutrinos are travelling faster than light. All our theories are wrong."
But, if it turns out that neutrinos really are travelling faster than light, very good scientists wiil say "Okay. Bugger! Now we have to rewrite all our theories."
And they will thoroughly enjoy doing that. I promise.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Arising_uk »

Godfree wrote:The big bang THEORY , is one of many theories regarding the evolution of the universe .
to assume one is correct and the rest wrong , is a little premature, ...
That's the thing you see, they don't in general 'assume'. The BBT theory was one of two, I presume, theories, always been here and created. The BBT was not particularly favoured but the discovery of the microwave background fitted a clear prediction for this theory, that and it so far fits pretty well with observation and experimentation. You think the atheist and agnostic scientists weren't unhappy with such a thing? Not aware what the theist could say with such an idea?
to assume any of them are correct is more than science is prepared to do.
Science thinks this exactly the more correct theory at present.
I find it entertaining to come up with other possibilities ,
don't you ,???
Depends, do I understand the fun in thinking about such things? Sure. Do I think them philosophy any more, not as such as I think 'science' has shown us that epistemology and phenomenology may be philosophy's purview, although Logic is still ours if the philosopher wants to work hard-enough. So I wonder what you mean by "possibilities"? As like I say, in my opinion for them to be that you'd have to convince the astrophysicists, as that arsy bunch of metaphysicians don't take much notice of the philosopher no more. Me, if I do any physics based metaphysics, I prefer the Digital Philosophy and Physics of Fredkin, I like my scientists mad and logical but I also thought Zuse's seminal paper amazing and nearly incomprehensible, but what I got was a laugh at its metaphor for 'reality'.
not only do we have big old galaxies at the outer limits of our view ,
but we also have an even spread of these galaxies not a tight spread near the bang site and wider further out , no an even spread ,
which also doesn't seem to fit this bb model .
I like to make predictions ,
At some point in the future ,
I believe they will drop the bbt , and replace it with a LBT .
No idea what LBT means? The way anyone in physics will listen to you is if you make a prediction that can be tested by experiment from this LBT that can't be made from the BBT and better, if you can find a prediction in the BBT theory that would disprove itself and even better if you can make such a prediction for this LBT.

As someone pointed-out, the sciences have a history of replacing theories so its not much of a prediction.

Its the way you talk about 'spreads', and distance that makes me differ in our understanding of what the BBT means in any sense, mine is that the BB was not an explosion in the 3-d sense we understand such a thing as a thing banging. It was the event of spacetime that created such things as things that go bang, where our 'time' is a 'distance' 'in' its. How this relates to how the galaxies et al are currently understood and measured I'll leave to those who wish to study such things, as the Maths is beyond my wish to learn, although the Physicist does have to learn less than the Mathematician I guess but then the Engineers even less, and I know who I prefer to drink with.

You are a simulation running-on either an emulator or simulator running in a simulation or emulation running in a simulation or emulation on some hardware calculating something! Even better, it might just be the boot-up and init stage. Worse, you might not be what its been designed for. It ALL makes sense now!! :lol:
Godfree
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Godfree »

Arising ,, LBT , now it's fairly obvious ,,,little bang theory ,
little bang has been my username on some of the Astronomy sites I'm on .
I'v been at this theme for a few years now .
but lets just for an exercise ,time travel
the scientists insist it's real ,,!!!
sure it's real , with a lot of money you might be able to spend a lot of time zooming around and save a few seconds ,,???
but isn't that just a few seconds of image,,???
you can zoom ahead of an image and see an earlier view ,
but when you return to your starting point it's old again ,!!!
going by how fast we can go compared to the speed of light ,
we are only ever going to be able to squeeze a few seconds out of this ,
time travel ,
reality is we will never use this idea to go back in time .
we don't have the power to waste on trying to accelerate up to anything like the speeds required to make a real difference .
so while they/the scientists , insist they have proved it's real ,
I would say it will never happen , and the science is just for entertainment .
Thundril
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Thundril »

Godfree. . .Take your meds. you'll be fine. Really.
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Arising_uk
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Arising_uk »

Godfree wrote:Arising ,, LBT , now it's fairly obvious ,,,little bang theory ,
little bang has been my username on some of the Astronomy sites I'm on .
I'v been at this theme for a few years now .
but lets just for an exercise ,time travel
the scientists insist it's real ,,!!!
Do they? I'd not heard that, I've heard that time is relative due to the speed of light and how we measure.
sure it's real , with a lot of money you might be able to spend a lot of time zooming around and save a few seconds ,,???
Or become a airline pilot.
but isn't that just a few seconds of image,,???
Pilots have a nice image tho'.
you can zoom ahead of an image and see an earlier view ,
but when you return to your starting point it's old again ,!!!
No idea what you are talking about?
going by how fast we can go compared to the speed of light ,
we are only ever going to be able to squeeze a few seconds out of this ,
time travel ,
What time-travel?
reality is we will never use this idea to go back in time .
Who ever said we could?
we don't have the power to waste on trying to accelerate up to anything like the speeds required to make a real difference .
so while they/the scientists , insist they have proved it's real ,
The point I thought was that even if we did have the power to waste we'd still never reach near the speed of light as mass goes up exponentially or some such.

The idea that we can travel into the 'future' by being the clock that goes slower seems sound, not sure if its time-travel tho' as you get older at the same rate no matter where you go, as age and death appears to be based upon accidents, misfortune and telomeres. Still, in the light-travel to the future you could fool your senses I guess by thinking that because you outlive others that you are living longer.
I would say it will never happen , and the science is just for entertainment .
I'd be loathe to say anything other than the contradictions are things that will never happen.

I agree that thinking about what the scientists say can be entertaining and personally more fun than religion but I'm dubious that its got much to do with the sciences nor making much contribution to the sciences.

You appear to want certainty from the sciences and ones that fit your personal metaphysic, I think you should return to religion if this is the case as philosophy has also given this up, other than the tautologies but then they have bugger all to do with the world.
Godfree
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Godfree »

, [/quote]The point I thought was that even if we did have the power to waste we'd still never reach near the speed of light as mass goes up exponentially or some such.

indeed , another point I was going to make ,
I heard it would take the energy of an entire galaxy to reach such speeds .
the point being , while science can claim some interesting theories ,
the application or ability to use these ideas ,in some cases is zero .
traveling to other worlds is another one ,
while we can easily argue that "theoretically " other worlds probably exist
the chance of us ever reaching such places is almost zero,
to reach our nearest star would at our current speeds , take about 80,000 years,
and we will have to travel a lot further than that to find life .
the current earth like planet I believe is about 100 light years away ,
25 times as far as Alphacentury ,
I suppose what I try and do is sort the probable from the possible ,
we can wank on about lots of possibilities , but the list of probabilities is ,
a whole lot smaller , and thats my focus , the most probable . !!
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Arising_uk
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Arising_uk »

Godfree wrote:indeed , another point I was going to make ,
I heard it would take the energy of an entire galaxy to reach such speeds ...
I heard that we can't reach the speed of light, not in the sense of propelling ourselves there.
the point being , while science can claim some interesting theories ,
the application or ability to use these ideas ,in some cases is zero .
The sciences don't claim interesting theories, just probably true ones.
traveling to other worlds is another one ,
If you mean interstellar, I'd agree, unless we get some major advances in the sciences. If you mean intrasolar, I'm not so sure but unlikely I'll give you.
while we can easily argue that "theoretically " other worlds probably exist
the chance of us ever reaching such places is almost zero, to reach our nearest star would at our current speeds , take about 80,000 years,
and we will have to travel a lot further than that to find life .
the current earth like planet I believe is about 100 light years away ,
25 times as far as Alphacentury ,
We've already found life. Is there other life in the galaxy or universe is an unknown. I thought we only just found evidence of a planet within what we call the habitable zone?
I suppose what I try and do is sort the probable from the possible ,
we can wank on about lots of possibilities , but the list of probabilities is ,
a whole lot smaller , and thats my focus , the most probable . !!
As I try to tell you, you are doing metaphysics based upon the sciences but they are philosophical metaphysicians, the Empiricists and Rationalists, even an Idealist or too. As such and if you wish your ideas true then you have to go play by their rules, otherwise, philosophically speaking, you're wasting you're thoughts, unless you have another reason for thinking them?
Godfree
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Re: The Big Bang is Busted

Post by Godfree »

A reason for thinking Arising ,???
It may seem a mixed bag of vague references ,
a disorganized collection of assumptions ,
but there is a common theme throughout ,
the way we think ,
Aliens would be another along these sudo science ,
science fiction more than fact ,
but people are more drawn to aliens and wormholes and time travel etc ,
more than they are about infinity and what it means .
people don't want science to solve things ,
they want science to tell them anything is possible so they can continue to live in fantasy land , the land of religion and make believe , from whence they came.
solving things , drawing conclusions , stops the fantasy ,
but of course it is no accident , look at the tv , Hollywood ,
we are fed religious fantasy , about 90% of the time ,
true blood , bullshit ,,!!! it's the same dumb way they think ,
fantasy rather than reality ,
then religion , their belief system ,doesn't seem so insane ,,!!!
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