A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

[Godfree]

logic would suggest , matter existed before the bang ,,!!!!

Logic suggests one of two explanations.

1) Everything came from nothing.

OR:

2) Everything has always existed. Time is infinite, and there was no beginning.

Well done Typist , it's number TWO ,.
somebody actually making some sense ,
1) is not logical at all ,,you can't get something from nothing ,!!!

[Godfree]

te]

If you stopped to think about it, you would realise that the BBT is the perfect atheist answer to existence.

The universe was not the invention or creation of god- IT CAME FROM NOTHING.[/quote]

No Chaz the bbt is NOT a perfect answer for Atheism.
There was no beginning ,
and the universe is infinite ,
a PERFECT answer would include both aspects.
Some asked for the maths ,
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO MULTIPLY ZERO/NOTHING,
BEFORE IT BECOMES SOMETHING,,,,????
incase you can't work it out , 0 times any number still equals 0 .

[Godfree]

Atheism is a religion. Dawkins is one of the bishops of the catholic (universal institution of) atheism. There are, in this way, 'protestant' atheists, and pentacostal etc.

I must see that Chaz is being like a cat with a 'yarn' ball in this one.

Is this thread an endeavor in sythetical a priori knowledge?

No I see Chaz as a snipper ,
hiding in the bushes and taking pot shots at everyone ,
Does it make you feel better to see Atheism as religion ,
do you think I will resent such comparisons and challenge your statement ,
if there was a religion that was into reality , the facts , truth ,
then I'd join it ,
religion is based on lies and mythology , and doesn't know truth at all .

[Typist]

2) Everything has always existed. Time is infinite, and there was no beginning.

Well done Typist , it's number TWO ,.
somebody actually making some sense ,
1) is not logical at all ,,you can't get something from nothing ,!!!

I'm not sure the idea of infinite time is any more logical. Sure, it's very hard to imagine something from nothing. It seems equally hard to imagine that there was no beginning.

INFINITE time is a very long time!

[chaz wyman]

te]

If you stopped to think about it, you would realise that the BBT is the perfect atheist answer to existence.

The universe was not the invention or creation of god- IT CAME FROM NOTHING.

No Chaz the bbt is NOT a perfect answer for Atheism.
There was no beginning ,
and the universe is infinite ,

PROVE IT!

a PERFECT answer would include both aspects.
Some asked for the maths ,
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO MULTIPLY ZERO/NOTHING,
BEFORE IT BECOMES SOMETHING,,,,????
incase you can't work it out , 0 times any number still equals 0 .

Not relevant.

[/quote]

[chaz wyman]

Atheism is a religion. Dawkins is one of the bishops of the catholic (universal institution of) atheism. There are, in this way, 'protestant' atheists, and pentacostal etc.

I must see that Chaz is being like a cat with a 'yarn' ball in this one.

Is this thread an endeavor in sythetical a priori knowledge?

Godfree is playing with ideas that are not a possible object of perception.
His rant has nothing to do with Dawkins, despite the thread title.

[Godfree]

2) Everything has always existed. Time is infinite, and there was no beginning.

Well done Typist , it's number TWO ,.
somebody actually making some sense ,
1) is not logical at all ,,you can't get something from nothing ,!!!

I'm not sure the idea of infinite time is any more logical. Sure, it's very hard to imagine something from nothing. It seems equally hard to imagine that there was no beginning.

INFINITE time is a very long time!

Indeed Typist an infinitely long time ,
1) is not logical , logic would suggest that if something came from the nothing , then the nothing was actually something , and we are just unable to see or know what the nothing contained .
The challenge we have is to imagine time stopping ,???
the universe stopping , ??? doesn't make any sense at all ,
so rather than say the universe stops at the limits of our ability to know it ,
why not assume that the known universe is a sufficiently large study group to conclude that the rest of the infinite universe is pretty much the same as the universe we do know ,!!!!

[Godfree]

Atheism is a religion. Dawkins is one of the bishops of the catholic (universal institution of) atheism. There are, in this way, 'protestant' atheists, and pentacostal etc.

I must see that Chaz is being like a cat with a 'yarn' ball in this one.

Is this thread an endeavor in sythetical a priori knowledge?

Godfree is playing with ideas that are not a possible object of perception.
His rant has nothing to do with Dawkins, despite the thread title.

Well Chaz it's fairly easy to work out why I am here , why are you here ,???
you don't represent Atheism as I know it ,
you don't seem to have any of your own points or philosophies that you ,
repeat or keep making ,
I'm flattered that your here to read my posts and chat with me ,
but I'm here to do what I see as an important job ,
to counter the bullshit fed to us by the likes of religion and popular science ,
you seem to be here to counter my counter ,
thus representing the moral and science majority ,
are you a religious person in disguise ,???
tell me Chaz , why are you here ,?????????

[chaz wyman]

Atheism is a religion. Dawkins is one of the bishops of the catholic (universal institution of) atheism. There are, in this way, 'protestant' atheists, and pentacostal etc.

I must see that Chaz is being like a cat with a 'yarn' ball in this one.

Is this thread an endeavor in sythetical a priori knowledge?

Godfree is playing with ideas that are not a possible object of perception.
His rant has nothing to do with Dawkins, despite the thread title.

Well Chaz it's fairly easy to work out why I am here , why are you here ,???
you don't represent Atheism as I know it ,

You are setting up Atheism as a belief system. This is a mistake.
Atheism is simply a denial of God. When it is a system of belief it becomes a religion.

you don't seem to have any of your own points or philosophies that you ,
repeat or keep making ,

True, I do not have a belief system, but if you look into my 5000ish posts you will find that
they contain quite a large amount of philosophy. You will not find any religious tendencies but you will conclude that I am an atheist on rational grounds, but do not seek to replace Christianity with a religion of my own.

I'm flattered that your here to read my posts and chat with me ,

So you should be!!

but I'm here to do what I see as an important job ,

Maybe you should start by sticking to what it is possible to say and NOT make shit up to build your belief system into a religion?

to counter the bullshit fed to us by the likes of religion and popular science ,
you seem to be here to counter my counter ,
thus representing the moral and science majority ,
are you a religious person in disguise ,???
tell me Chaz , why are you here ,?????????

I'm here to counter bullshit, with philosophy, where ever it appears.

So tell me how is it possible to state that the universe is infinite?

[Godfree]

I'm here to counter bullshit, with philosophy, where ever it appears.

So tell me how is it possible to state that the universe is infinite?

[/color]
[/quote][/quote]
There are many ways we can make such claims ,lets start with the infinitely
dense particle , this would be proof the universe is infinite ,!!!
like god , we don't assume such a thing exists we seek the proof ,!!!
we have a universe , to assume it stops at some point ,
is making a claim , is calling it god .
if there was a end to the universe,
and then the '"NOTHING",
what is stopping the something from leaking into the nothing ,
is there a barrier ,why would the nothing stay nothing , when matter would
be drawn to such a place ,
there are lots of things wrong with the claim the universe is finite ,
tell me something that is wrong about the idea of an infinite universe,

[chaz wyman]

I'm here to counter bullshit, with philosophy, where ever it appears.

So tell me how is it possible to state that the universe is infinite?

[/color]

[/quote]
There are many ways we can make such claims ,lets start with the infinitely
dense particle , this would be proof the universe is infinite ,!!!

There is no infinitely dense particle.


like god , we don't assume such a thing exists we seek the proof ,!!!
we have a universe , to assume it stops at some point ,
is making a claim , is calling it god .
if there was a end to the universe,
and then the '"NOTHING",
what is stopping the something from leaking into the nothing ,
is there a barrier ,why would the nothing stay nothing , when matter would
be drawn to such a place ,
there are lots of things wrong with the claim the universe is finite ,
tell me something that is wrong about the idea of an infinite universe,[/quote]

An infinite universe is not a possible object of observation.
And is not the object of our experience.
What is wrong with the claim that the evidence is finite?

Please state why you think the universe is infinite. I keep asking you but you always avoid the question.

[Godfree]

Well done Chaz , we have your thread title ,
Why Do You Think The Universe Is Infinite ,
because it makes infinitely more sense than a finite one ,!!
is it possible for a finite universe to exist , I can't see how ,
I can imagine the rest of an infinite universe being pretty much the such as the known universe , but I can't imagine there being a limit to the size or age of the universe .
Then we seek the proof ,
if the universe had a beginning ,
then where did all the matter come from,
IT WAS YOU THAT SUGGESTED AN INFINITELY DENSE PARTICLE , could have been what went bang .
we are forced to imagine nothing all of a sudden produced all the matter in the known universe , that makes no sense at all , illogical Captain Kerk ,
what we call or imagine was "nothing" must have been a very large something , we know black holes exist , a large black hole would make a big bang,
my belief is that if it was all of a infinite universe ,
the bang would take an infinite amount of time .
The observational data , suggest we can see past the big bang ,
we can see old galaxies that were there before the bang .
so there is the proof ,,we can see galaxies older than 13.7 billion years old ,!!!

[Arising_uk]

Maybe this will help clarify any issues.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo ... q.html#BBB

[Godfree]

Maybe this will help clarify any issues.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo ... q.html#BBB

now come on ,, you can't just give us a web address and call that job done ,??
I think the idea is to discuss the topics , to share what we think ,
that doesn't tell us anything about what you think ,
Try googling ,The oldest galaxies or ,
The biggest black holes ,,, you might end up at a porn site with that one,,LOL
but I think from memory it also refers to the size of the black holes ,
18 million suns big , from memory,, then you could google , how black holes are made ,,,then you will have an idea how long it would take to construct such a black hole , then ad 13 billion years , cos we can see some out that far ,
and you have galaxies older than the bang,!!!!!!!!

[chaz wyman]

Well done Chaz , we have your thread title ,
Why Do You Think The Universe Is Infinite ,
because it makes infinitely more sense than a finite one ,!!

You cannot observe an infinite universe; it is impossible.




is it possible for a finite universe to exist , I can't see how ,

Look out of the window.


I can imagine the rest of an infinite universe being pretty much the such as the known universe , but I can't imagine there being a limit to the size or age of the universe .

That is a psychological problem that you have.

Then we seek the proof ,
if the universe had a beginning ,
then where did all the matter come from,
IT WAS YOU THAT SUGGESTED AN INFINITELY DENSE PARTICLE , could have been what went bang .
we are forced to imagine nothing all of a sudden produced all the matter in the known universe , that makes no sense at all , illogical Captain Kerk ,
what we call or imagine was "nothing" must have been a very large something , we know black holes exist , a large black hole would make a big bang,
my belief is that if it was all of a infinite universe ,
the bang would take an infinite amount of time .
The observational data , suggest we can see past the big bang ,
we can see old galaxies that were there before the bang .
so there is the proof ,,we can see galaxies older than 13.7 billion years old ,!!!

And the only thing that can explain this phenomenon is the BBT.
All you have is a limit to the observable universe that you cannot reconcile with an infinite universe.
The darkness of space cannot be a factor of an infinite universe, and yet there it is.
Stars are dying. Everything we see is in change. All things die. There is not reason to insist that the universe is infinite.
An infinite universe cannot be observed nor is it logically possible.

If the universe is infinitely old - how come everything has not already died?
Since everything is expanding, how come the distances are still measurable?
Stars have a life-cycle. an infinite universe cannot have any evolution of stars..