If God Exists, Is It Our God?

[Godfree]

If you were going to start a thread , what would it be about ,
it's quite hard to think of the most important/relevant thing to say .
and it says a lot about a person .
What is it that you value ,
what is the best piece of advice you could give someone,??

I might ask why people tends to cling to simplistic and unsophisticated explanations despite the obvious evidence of massive complexity. How is it they are satisfied so simply with such poor explanations.[/quote]

,Simplistic and unsophisticated , ??? ,, now Chaz I don't think infinity ,
is either of those .
If it was , more people would be able to grasp it , as many keep pointing out,complex things like what makes the universe tick are for those ,
who have studied it at a recognized body such as a university
or poly tech ,etc , but someone who is self taught ,
is just as capable of working it out as any of them .
SO Chaz ,,,, hit us with this complex sophisticated wisdumb,,,???

[chaz wyman]

If you were going to start a thread , what would it be about ,
it's quite hard to think of the most important/relevant thing to say .
and it says a lot about a person .
What is it that you value ,
what is the best piece of advice you could give someone,??

I might ask why people tends to cling to simplistic and unsophisticated explanations despite the obvious evidence of massive complexity. How is it they are satisfied so simply with such poor explanations.

,Simplistic and unsophisticated , ??? ,, now Chaz I don't think infinity ,
is either of those .

No, your conception of it is though.


If it was , more people would be able to grasp it , as many keep pointing out,complex things like what makes the universe tick are for those ,
who have studied it at a recognized body such as a university
or poly tech ,etc , but someone who is self taught ,
is just as capable of working it out as any of them .
SO Chaz ,,,, hit us with this complex sophisticated wisdumb,,,???[/quote]

[Godfree]

Perfect Chaz
your opportunity to tell us all in a sophisticated and complex way
"WHAT IS INFINITY" by Chaz ,
I'm all eyes Chaz ,,
and what evidence do they have for the alternative ,
a finite universe , apart from Olbers paradox , which is outdated ,
what proof have they for the universe being finite ,???

[chaz wyman]

Perfect Chaz
your opportunity to tell us all in a sophisticated and complex way
"WHAT IS INFINITY" by Chaz ,
I'm all eyes Chaz ,,
and what evidence do they have for the alternative ,
a finite universe , apart from Olbers paradox , which is outdated ,
what proof have they for the universe being finite ,???

When are you going to notice that you are having a conversation with yourself ?

[Godfree]

[quote="chaz wyman"
When are you going to notice that you are having a conversation with yourself ?[/quote]
Sadly I have been aware of that for a long time ,
I keep trying to find others with the courage to stand up against the ignorance of mainstream , politics ,philosophy and thinking in general .
I keep asking you Chaz for your opinion ,
seems you don't have an opinion ,???
but you know that my opinion is wrong ,
but whenever asked for your alternative explanation , it's never forthcoming .
true skeptic , challenge any and all claims ,
that aren't seen by the majority as acceptable .
Could it be that people like yourself just lack the faith in their own judgment,
that you huddle in a group for security , and you don't actually have the balls to stand up as an individual and form an opinion .???
So in future Chaz should I just google what most people think ,
and call that Chaz ,???

[chaz wyman]

[quote="Godfree"][quote="chaz wman"
When are you going to notice that you are having a conversation with yourself ?[/qute]
Sadly I have been aware of that for a long time ,
I keep trying to find others with the courage to stand up against the ignorance of mainstream , politics ,philosophy and thinking in general .
I keep asking you Chaz for your opinion ,
seems you don't have an opinion ,???
but you know that my opinion is wrong ,
but whenever asked for your alternative explanation , it's never forthcoming .
true skeptic , challenge any and all claims ,
that aren't seen by the majority as acceptable .
Could it be that people like yourself just lack the faith in their own judgment,
that you huddle in a group for security , and you don't actually have the balls to stand up as an individual and form an opinion .???
So in future Chaz should I just google what most people think ,
and call that Chaz ,???[/quote


You keep asking my opinion of WHAT EXACTLY?

[Godfree]

Perfect Chaz
your opportunity to tell us all in a sophisticated and complex way
"WHAT IS INFINITY" by Chaz ,
I'm all eyes Chaz ,,
and what evidence do they have for the alternative ,
a finite universe , apart from Olbers paradox , which is outdated ,
what proof have they for the universe being finite ,???

When are you going to notice that you are having a conversation with yourself ?

You can't work out what opinion I'm asking for ,
REALLY , you can't work that out , do you read any of these posts ,
do you just reply blind ,
you never answer the questions I ask you ,
define infinity ,if it's not asking too much Chaz ,and if you still have time ,explain how something comes from nothing ,I repeat,
0 times any number still equals 0

[chaz wyman]

Perfect Chaz
your opportunity to tell us all in a sophisticated and complex way
"WHAT IS INFINITY" by Chaz ,
I'm all eyes Chaz ,,
and what evidence do they have for the alternative ,
a finite universe , apart from Olbers paradox , which is outdated ,
what proof have they for the universe being finite ,???

When are you going to notice that you are having a conversation with yourself ?

You can't work out what opinion I'm asking for ,
REALLY , you can't work that out , do you read any of these posts ,
do you just reply blind ,
you never answer the questions I ask you ,
define infinity ,if it's not asking too much Chaz ,and if you still have time ,explain how something comes from nothing ,I repeat,
0 times any number still equals 0

You are spewing gibberish.
There is nothing here to comment on.
The reason you can't state a clear question is that you do not have a clear question to ask.
I don't have to explain how something comes from nothing - that's YOUR problem.
I can support the BB without having to do that. If you thought about it you would see that this is so.
What do you imagine 'infinity" has to do with it?
There is not evidence possible to establish if the Universe is infinite or not. It is simply not a possible object of our experience.
0x0=0. also infinity divided by x = infinity.That means that there can be no measurable objects in an infinite universe, because that would be a division of an infinite object which would be also have to be infinite. You cannot win by this route - maths is a conceptual model , not a reflection of the truth of the universe.

[Godfree]

There is nothing here to comment on.
The reason you can't state a clear question is that you do not have a clear question to ask.
I don't have to explain how something comes from nothing - that's YOUR problem.
I can support the BB without having to do that. If you thought about it you would see that this is so.
What do you imagine 'infinity" has to do with it?
There is not evidence possible to establish if the Universe is infinite or not. It is simply not a possible object of our experience.
0x0=0. also infinity divided by x = infinity.That means that there can be no measurable objects in an infinite universe, because that would be a division of an infinite object which would be also have to be infinite. You cannot win by this route - maths is a conceptual model , not a reflection of the truth of the universe.[/quote]
Chaz , the bbt requires the universe to be finite ,
before the bang there was supposed to be nothing , unless your going to say the nothing extends for infinity , and always has done ,
then the bbt is a finite universe model .
Either you are deliberately being difficult and refusing to see my points , or your a dumb shit who just plain doesn't get it .
I assume people can read between the lines , connect the dots ,
do I really have to spell everything out for you ,???
for the bbt to be correct ,
we live in a finite universe , that didn't exist before the bang .
there was just the nothing???
so since your are either incapable or just being difficult ,
I am left to just make statements , assuming I can't get a sensible response
from you ,so another statement ,
THERE IS NO LOGIC TO THE NOTHING ,
it is utter bullshit , invented to make the story fit .
if you can believe nothing , you can believe anything ,
a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse

[chaz wyman]

There is nothing here to comment on.
The reason you can't state a clear question is that you do not have a clear question to ask.
I don't have to explain how something comes from nothing - that's YOUR problem.
I can support the BB without having to do that. If you thought about it you would see that this is so.
What do you imagine 'infinity" has to do with it?
There is not evidence possible to establish if the Universe is infinite or not. It is simply not a possible object of our experience.
0x0=0. also infinity divided by x = infinity.That means that there can be no measurable objects in an infinite universe, because that would be a division of an infinite object which would be also have to be infinite. You cannot win by this route - maths is a conceptual model , not a reflection of the truth of the universe.

Chaz , the bbt requires the universe to be finite ,
before the bang there was supposed to be nothing , unless your going to say the nothing extends for infinity , and always has done ,
then the bbt is a finite universe model .
Either you are deliberately being difficult and refusing to see my points , or your a dumb shit who just plain doesn't get it .

BB theorists admit they do not know what existed before the BB. Some suggest that the Universe is oscillating; expanding and contracting infinitely. Some demand that the BB emerges from an infinitely dense particle of matter.
But even if the universe was finite - so what?

I assume people can read between the lines , connect the dots ,
do I really have to spell everything out for you ,???

No, but it seems that I have to spell it out for you.

Prove the universe is infinite!!

for the bbt to be correct ,
we live in a finite universe , that didn't exist before the bang .
there was just the nothing???

NO. This is not correct. But even if it is - so What!
Your objection to this is NOT philosophical. It is NOT scientific, it is NOT rational. Your objection to this is EMOTIONAL.
You don't like it because of your religion


so since your are either incapable or just being difficult ,
I am left to just make statements , assuming I can't get a sensible response
from you ,so another statement ,
THERE IS NO LOGIC TO THE NOTHING ,

With nothing there is nothing. That is as is should be. SO what?

The FACT is that the Universe appears to be finite. Get over it.

it is utter bullshit , invented to make the story fit .

WHy is it bullshit?

if you can believe nothing , you can believe anything ,
a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse

[Godfree]

BB theorists admit they do not know what existed before the BB. Some suggest that the Universe is oscillating; expanding and contracting infinitely. Some demand that the BB emerges from an infinitely dense particle of matter.
But even if the universe was finite - so what?
[/color]
I assume people can read between the lines , connect the dots ,
do I really have to spell everything out for you ,???

They don't know what existed before the bang ,!!!!
so lets just invent a pretty little story that fits religion ,
the universe was CREATED by a big bang,
an infinitely dense particle , suggests that the universe was in a black hole .
which means the universe was not created by the bang ,it was a continuation from the last cycle .
So since your attempting to answer some questions ,
We can see galaxies that are old in appearance ,they have a big black hole which is huge and the stars around the black hole are not looking like a star nursery where stars are born like in the early days after the bang ,
no these galaxies look old , the image of them is 13 billion years old , ad at least 10 billion years to get the galaxy to the state it is as we see it ,
and you have a galaxy that is 23 billion years old , or more , some say as old a 100 billion years ,
THE FACTS ARE THERE ARE GALAXIES OLDER THAN 13.7 billion years ,
explain that please how could this be in a bbt model .

[chaz wyman]

BB theorists admit they do not know what existed before the BB. Some suggest that the Universe is oscillating; expanding and contracting infinitely. Some demand that the BB emerges from an infinitely dense particle of matter.
But even if the universe was finite - so what?

I assume people can read between the lines , connect the dots ,
do I really have to spell everything out for you ,???

They don't know what existed before the bang ,!!!!
so lets just invent a pretty little story that fits religion ,
the universe was CREATED by a big bang,
an infinitely dense particle , suggests that the universe was in a black hole .
which means the universe was not created by the bang ,it was a continuation from the last cycle .
So since your attempting to answer some questions ,
We can see galaxies that are old in appearance ,they have a big black hole which is huge and the stars around the black hole are not looking like a star nursery where stars are born like in the early days after the bang ,
no these galaxies look old , the image of them is 13 billion years old , ad at least 10 billion years to get the galaxy to the state it is as we see it ,
and you have a galaxy that is 23 billion years old , or more , some say as old a 100 billion years ,
THE FACTS ARE THERE ARE GALAXIES OLDER THAN 13.7 billion years ,
explain that please how could this be in a bbt model .

You are just confused.
All these dates are derived from the BBT, without it you would have nothing to say at all.

[Godfree]

I am not confused Chaz ,
the facts don't support the big bang , the facts don't support Olbers Paradox ,
the facts don't support a finite universe ,
but science is slow and reluctant to take onboard such truths , because they have to admit they had it wrong .
The dates and ages of galaxies all very real Chaz ,
We can see 13 billion light years ,, according to science,,!!!
some of the things we see that are 13 billion years old,
are OLD galaxies ,
referred to as the ,Observational data .
google it Chaz ,,or don't you want to know the truth ,,!!!

[Arising_uk]

Maybe this will help clarify any issues.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo ... q.html#BBB

[Godfree]

Maybe this will help clarify any issues.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo ... q.html#BBB

Did it clarify things for you Arising ,,???
what conclusions did you draw from what you read .???
I'v been doing it heaps of times ,
and often I get Olbers Paradox still being used as proof the universe is finite ,?
the facts are , distant galaxies are so red shifted as to no longer be visible ,
Olbers Paradox is a load of rubbish ,
and the quote , one should not talk of what one cannot know ,
if science did that we would never make new discoveries ,
we learn by challenging what we don't know ,
religion will tell us not to try and understand god because it is above and beyond our comprehension ,
we can know what was before the bang ,
galaxies , for infinity ,
godfrees second law ,,"bangs happen on a galactic scale ,not a universal one"