The Big Bang is Busted

[Godfree]

Godfree's second law of physics ,
"Bangs happen on a galactic scale , not a universal one"
birth and rebirth of the galaxies , within an infinite universe .

[SpheresOfBalance]

[
SOB ,
a fairly typical response , counters my claims with , confusion ,
so ,you want to have something over there , but nothing here ,??
is there a wall inbetween , or what stops the nothing from being invaded by the something,???

You obviously don't have a clue about parallel universes huh? If you continue to think with a 3 dimensional mind, that's all you'll ever know. Like I said you're thinking is Newtonian and thus limited. String theory includes 11 dimensions. Your 3 dimensional presumptions are what limit your minds eye.

[Godfree]

[
You obviously don't have a clue about parallel universes huh? If you continue to think with a 3 dimensional mind, that's all you'll ever know. Like I said you're thinking is Newtonian and thus limited. String theory includes 11 dimensions. Your 3 dimensional presumptions are what limit your minds eye.[/quote]
SOB , parallel universes .
thats your reality is it .
of all the possibilities for a model of our universe you choose parallel universe,??
so is there more than one parallel universe ,???
hundreds , if we can have one why not a million ,???
in which case why are these universes ,???
surely one universe , regardless of how strange you think the goings on in this universe .
seems to me you are trying to counter claims of a high probability ,
and sound logic , with very remote possibilities ,with little logic or connection to the real world as we know it today .
Einstein , Hubble ,are you saying these people agree with your view of the universe , or are you going out on a limb here ,are you a radical promoting fantasy in the form of physics

[SpheresOfBalance]

You obviously don't have a clue about parallel universes huh? If you continue to think with a 3 dimensional mind, that's all you'll ever know. Like I said you're thinking is Newtonian and thus limited. String theory includes 11 dimensions. Your 3 dimensional presumptions are what limit your minds eye.

SOB , parallel universes .
thats your reality is it .
of all the possibilities for a model of our universe you choose parallel universe,??
so is there more than one parallel universe ,???
hundreds , if we can have one why not a million ,???
in which case why are these universes ,???
surely one universe , regardless of how strange you think the goings on in this universe .
seems to me you are trying to counter claims of a high probability ,
and sound logic , with very remote possibilities ,with little logic or connection to the real world as we know it today .
Einstein , Hubble ,are you saying these people agree with your view of the universe , or are you going out on a limb here ,are you a radical promoting fantasy in the form of physics

No, I already alluded to my playing devils advocate. I do believe that in an infinite universe anything is possible. And that nothing is just as probable as something. But my real mission, here in your thread, is to point out that we are to young to have "really firm beliefs" and thus that you have fallen into the same trap that you claim your opposition have, and that is a RIGID exclusionary belief system, that may or may not be true. Actually it's equally possible that it all was created. The fact is that no one knows.

I believe it's OK to state your leanings as such, but when one eludes to certainty of such a large question, I automatically think Cuckoo, Cuckoo. OK, well maybe not exactly, but you get the point, I'm sure.

Obviously, you can do what ever you want, I'm just trying to help in my own way.

As always, my mind now remains open to possibilities.

[Godfree]

The possibilities , are indeed almost endless ,
but that would be a waste of time to take all possibilities seriously ,
we would be far better to focus on the most probable .
I am presenting my most probable picture/model of the universe,
so I don't get how reminding me of the remote possibilities ,
counters claims of the most probable .
we can theorize forever .
or we can find the balls and brains to make a decision ,
to stand up and be counted .
or will we be forever lost in the ignorance of superstition and religion ,..

[SpheresOfBalance]

The possibilities , are indeed almost endless ,
but that would be a waste of time to take all possibilities seriously ,
we would be far better to focus on the most probable .
I am presenting my most probable picture/model of the universe,
so I don't get how reminding me of the remote possibilities ,
counters claims of the most probable .
we can theorize forever .
or we can find the balls and brains to make a decision ,
to stand up and be counted .
or will we be forever lost in the ignorance of superstition and religion ,..

I believe that 'balls' and 'brains' can be counter intuitive. Balls tend to preclude brains and thus brains tend to preclude balls.
Also decisions are equally capable of yielding false as they are true.
You can stand up and say 'A'
or
You can stand up and say 'B'
or
You can stand up and say 'A or B'
or
That If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

Which to me indicates that one can simply change from one ignorance to another ignorance, especially if one is truly ignorant of how to detect ignorance. I would propose that only the elusive truth can possibly point to ignorance such that positing doesn't necessarily yield any.
All pieces are part of the puzzle. One just has to find where they fit. Some data is the data, some data is the precursors to the data, some data arranges the data, some data demonstrates a process to attain data, some data shows how to use the data, some data shows how/'how not' to acquire data, etc, etc, etc., such that a wise man ignores no data but merely finds where all the data fit's in the puzzle.

[Godfree]

or
That If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.




[/color][/quote]
Yes you have chosen to sit on the fence ,
skeptic I believe .
maintain the status quo because we can't agree on what or why to change .
to me it's pretty obvious what needs to change ,
we need to stop giving religion any credibility whatsoever .
some times it's easier to work out the answer by eliminating the wrong answers.
and religions clearly a wrong answer .
So , SOB ,why not try it my way,
tell me what your best guess is for the model of the universe , ie ,infinity vrs finite , static vrs bbt ,one universe vrs multiple universes ,
paint me a picture ,,,

[SpheresOfBalance]

or
That If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.




[/color]

Yes you have chosen to sit on the fence ,
skeptic I believe .
'Sitting on the fence' seems to indicate that one has 'completed' the gathering of data and that they merely decide not to use the 'full set' of data to make a choice. I contend that in my case, I'm still 'collecting' data such that it's 'premature' in making a choice. To make a choice without all the data can be a fools game.

maintain the status quo because we can't agree on what or why to change .
I believe that 'why' is answered in the rest of my previous message that you seemingly chose to ignore, and is in that which I reiterate above.

to me it's pretty obvious what needs to change ,
we need to stop giving religion any credibility whatsoever .
Oh I absolutely hate what members of organized religion have done to innocents throughout history, the crusades, spanish inquisition, controlling knowledge, amassing golden idols, (wealth), something they're supposed to be against), affecting the decisions of those in power, etc. And because of this I hate the GOD that they have created in their own image. Trust me when I say that in my mind the possibility of a 'creator' has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with their GOD, WHAT SO EVER!

some times it's easier to work out the answer by eliminating the wrong answers.
and religions clearly a wrong answer .
Agree as to organized religions, I just believe that the jury is still out with respect to creation!

So , SOB ,why not try it my way,
tell me what your best guess is for the model of the universe , ie ,infinity vrs finite , static vrs bbt ,one universe vrs multiple universes ,
paint me a picture ,,,
OK, I will soon try to impart a few models of some of my potential scenarios in the near future.[/quote]

[Godfree]

The big picture ,
for me it's easy ,
One , infinite static universe .
time had no beginning and will have no end .
I also go on to address religion ,
god is impossible ,
life after death is impossible .
Sadly we live in a world full of children ,
and they insist that dreams such as gods and ghosts be treated as real .
because thats the world they want .
nothing to do with what the facts suggest ,
it's all about but I WANT IT TO BE REAL .
as if wanting it hard enough can make it real .
So what would I say is the main stumbling block in the way of the advance of truth and reality ,
RELIGION , and governments that support it ,,!!!

[SpheresOfBalance]

One of my theories on the possible creator is that it's a mass of electromagnetic energy as that's the essence of all that exists, from the tiniest of particles to the largest of spacial bodies, electromagnetic energy reigns supreme! Nothing can go faster than it. On a quantum level it pops into and out of existence (our perception) seemingly at will. All elements exist merely due to it's numbers.

Our brains work and control our entire body via electrical energy.

The balance of positive and negative potential is in all things.

Since it is in us, as our brains use it, where the mind resides, I ask where does the electrical energy go when the flesh dies? Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It just changes forms. E=MC(2)(<-- superscript) I believe that it's possible and likely that it is re-absorbed from whence it came, such that we return to the creator upon our bodies death. Which also eludes to our consciousness/minds being part of the creator.

Don't get me wrong "I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MANS GOD!"

The bible is all bullshit except for the part that eludes to us all loving, understanding, and accepting one another as we are all one. Some are just psychotic, neurotic, etc., they can't help themselves! Such that the worst thing one can do is take another life as you kill a part of yourself and the creators will at the same time. The creators will is everything that exists in the universe. We were all created as part of a symbiosis such that as long as one only takes that part of the symbiosis that is required to maintain it's life and gives thanks for that part (respect, acknowledgment of our true interdependance) and does not destroy just for the sake of destruction then you are good and in alignment with the symbiosis and thus the creators intention.

Electromagnetic energy is a mystery!

It would seem that you've paid considerable attention to the universes mechanics. But I don't believe you've considered it's essence, Electromagnetic Energy!

All my life I've had a deep affinity for rain and as a child likened it to the creators tears. I have simply sat and watched/listened to it for extended periods of time, as if in meditation. I have noticed that the thunder sounds more angry than it once did. Is it my imagination, or is it a manifestation of the current state of planet earth, at the hands of mankind? Remember thunder is caused by electricity, positive and negative potential. The yin and the yang! The Balance of nuclei, solar systems, galaxies and some of mankind's hemispheres. Well at least those, such as myself!

Everything is good as long as all the Spheres of Balance are in balance!

My edit was the highlighting of the word theories as some people seem to skip over words such that it behooves their argument

[xenuwonder]

It has amused me enormously reading this thread and all the posts. I really get a kick out of all this armchair philosophy and science. It's fairly easy to throw outlandish ideas out there isn't it?

Godfree, you seem to have a serious thorn stuck up your ar... and insist that all this is a religious conspiracy aimed at controlling the world and our thinking.

If I may, I'd like to suggest a few things for you to do:

1) Lay off the brown acid, it's bad for you and will cloud your mind.

2) Go get laid and enjoy the very real things in life that we can explain like "wow, that was a great shag and I feel good about life" rather than dwell on things like religion which personally I think is an uphill battle and exercise in futility.

3) Take a few night classes in High School / Entry level science and maths. Your posts might have a little credibility and substance behind them if you appear to know even a juvenile level of what people are debating here.

Stay cool folks, keep up the discussion.

Xenuwonder.

[Godfree]

Sob , I ask for your best guess ,
and this is what your comeback is ,??
you seem to be almost sheepishly putting this forward like it's not your best guess or most probable , but a remote possibility ,
if you want to imagine peoples brains or spirits flying around in the electro magnetic electrickery ,
it's a old idea with many variations ,
but only the religious would put such nonsense forward as their best guess .
we may use electricity in our brain , but we have a cpu , powered up by living tissue , a power station that is required to retain the knowledge , just like a computer when the battery goes flat the info is lost.
So I pressume this electrickery is infinite ,,???
like god it always was ,???

[Godfree]

1) Lay off the brown acid, it's bad for you and will cloud your mind.



Stay cool folks, keep up the discussion.

Xenuwonder.[/quote]
Xenu , welcome to the forums ,
I will be looking forward to you imparting some philosophy on us at some stage,
while I find your first post entertaining , philosophy it is not .
Like Sob , maybe try and express what is most real to you , your best guess most probable , what you perceive to be the real world ,
are you a bbt supporter , is your universe infinite or finite ,
and do you agree that infinite implies religion is wrong the bbt is wrong , and most of science about the evolution of the universe ,????

[keithprosser2]

I think the only think one can say about the big bang is that it doesn't make any sense to a normal human mind. I don't think any normal human can think 'outside the box' of causality. Basically, everything (we tend to think) has a cause, but the Big Bang seems not to have one.

Either we don't know something that would serve as the key to solving that dilemma or we 'know' something that isn't, in fact, true.

Sad to say, if that dilemma is ever solved (I'm not sure it will be, at least not while I am alive) then the solution will be discovered by a bloke in a white coat and a PhD (and bar) in Astronomical Relativistic Quantum Plasma Physics and I doubt we'd even understand it even if we believed it. An armchair doesn't compete with radio telescopes and particle accelerators when it comes to matters of fact about the physical universe.

[Godfree]

Either we don't know something that would serve as the key to solving that dilemma or we 'know' something that isn't, in fact, true.

sounds a little resigned ,
you don't think humans are capable of grasping reality ,??
you don't think that you personally can grasp reality,??
your grasping wether we can grasp it or not ,?????
but you can't grasp it ,?