What's stopping us from seeing the truth?

[SpheresOfBalance]

Chaz Wyman: A most brilliant fool, as his stance contradicts his stance. If in fact truth varies with each individual then we cannot argue the truth as there is no common ground on which to stand; relative in deed.

Once again you have nothing but personal attacks.
Surly you jest!!! Just treating you in kind my friend, treating you in kind!!! Me waffle??? You're the waffle. I think I'll get started on your emoticon right now: a waffle with a face on each side!!!!
Now I prefer to dispense with the personal attacks, they're childish. Are you going to "SR NAND latch" on me again? Let's both of us MAN UP, and stop. Let's see who'll break first, the looser agrees that his theories are just so much circular logic BS!

Your theory of truth is nothing but Faith.
Not faith, Logic! Yours is not yours, merely Xerox'd, without query!

I ask you, when is a skeptic not a skeptic?
This is yet another example of your pathetic insistence on absolutism.
If you're referring to Hegel's "Absolute idealism, or Leibniz's argument against Absolutism," I do not "absolutely" agree with either one. There you go again with your premise that it goes without saying, because "you" happened to buy into some "age old" guys concept! You judge me with your own measure based upon your assumptions then spew venom at me because I don't agree.

There can be no one who is absolutely certain about everything, and there can be no one who is completely skeptical about everything.
Finally some common ground, surely I agree with you one hundred percent!! "The only thing we truly know is that we don't know." So from now on I expect you to be a little more forgiving in your attitude towards me.

You need to get a grip on reality and learn some humility.
Ditto my friend, ditto!!!! I've never seen you say that we've agreed, or that you've agreed with anyone for that matter. I've never seen you admit you're wrong. I've done both and in the beginning I've started out a sentence with "it would seem." and included both "possibility" and "probability" In the interest of fair play, considering the previous point we covered.

Hey Chaz, the truth is something that philosophy has always aspired to understand, thus it has always existed.
Philosophy has always sought to provide the basis for understanding the world.
Yeah, it's "true," not it's untrue, nature!

If you think you have found truth, then you are describing religion.
I never said I've found truth, but I have found some truths. And as far as I'm concerned there's as much truth in religion as in your argument; not much!

Empty minded nonsense as usual.
Only to a mind full if itself as usual!

You have painted yourself into a corner with your own version of the truth and can't cope with disagreement.
No, the corners are on the books that you've read and bought into, hook line and sinker, without one iota of original thought. You do realize that parrots can say "Polly wants a cracker," right? That is, as long as someone tells them what to say!

People like you that have existed in positions of power end up burning people like me for telling you that the world was not the centre of the Universe.
Whoa baby, now you're treading on my "prime directive." I despise power and anyone that assumes it, as it's just an illusion. I'll be damned if I'll ever want to be called a leader and I'll be damned if I'll ever want to be called a follower. To hell with all that crap! And for your information, boy, the only life that anyone has complete dominion over is their own. And this is exactly why I despise your theory of truth being relative. Your line of thinking allows for exactly that which you have just outlined, which in turn alludes to the blindness of your minds eye. It's a wonder your not in a rubber room, what with your burning yourself at the stake.

Your arrogance is quite astounding.
As is yours!

[chaz wyman]

HYSTERICAL RANTINGS.

I don't mind conversing with you or anyone else on this or any other topics, but you still have not answered basic questions I have asked about your claims concerning the absolute existence of "truth". You have not stated how this situation can obtain.
Until you do - I will continue to delete your rantings and insults.

Show me the "logic" of your theory of truth!
Demonstrate that truth can exist in the absence of humans to conceive of it!

There is an apposite phrase used by our American brethren; "Put up of Shut up!"

[SpheresOfBalance]

HYSTERICAL RANTINGS.

I don't mind conversing with you or anyone else on this or any other topics, but you still have not answered basic questions I have asked about your claims concerning the absolute existence of "truth". You have not stated how this situation can obtain.
Until you do - I will continue to delete your rantings and insults.

Show me the "logic" of your theory of truth!
Demonstrate that truth can exist in the absence of humans to conceive of it!

There is an apposite phrase used by our American brethren; "Put up of Shut up!"

You don't deserve anything with your condescending attitude. You can take your "HYSTERICAL RANTINGS" and your black mailing approach and stick them back up your arse from whence they came. You can't strong arm me, boy! It's just an illusion you share with your monitor & keyboard that real physical proximity and human nature would put into its proper perspective.

But I agree that we've spent far too much time acting like children, and yet you persist. It was you that has set this stage of tit for tat attacks, as with your initial approach, not I! And don't be fooled into thinking that you're exempt from stating your case, such that only I have to bear fruit. So shut up or put up! You can start with your apology for exuding your unwarranted holier than thou attitude. Who the fark do you think you are anyway? Your just another insignificant human, such as I, of 6.8 billion that squanders away our existence for mere selfish trivialities or you'd be living in a cave. I'm here to tell you it's just your delusion!

Since you started the crap you should be the one that swallows his pride and starts the serious adult dialog. I'll be here, whenever you're ready. And I mean the ENTIRE message, not a mix of hot and cold such that you can satisfy some insatiable need in being nasty.

Oh and by the way, If i were to reveal my last name it would be apparent that it's of British origin. However I don't care about such trivialities. I only see myself as a human of the world and claim no specific culture; I've traveled around the world. "Better the pride that resides, in a citizen of the world, than the pride that divides, when a colorful rag is unfurled."

P.S. In your first clean message with apology, please include a reiteration of your primary concern with my truth.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.






"I worship God as Truth only. I have not yet found Him, but I am seeking after Him. I am prepared to sacrifice the things dearest to me in pursuit of this quest. Even if the sacrifice demanded my very life, I hope I may be prepared to give it.
~~~ Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi ~~~













............................................















.

[SpheresOfBalance]

.
"I worship God as Truth only. I have not yet found Him, but I am seeking after Him. I am prepared to sacrifice the things dearest to me in pursuit of this quest. Even if the sacrifice demanded my very life, I hope I may be prepared to give it.
~~~ Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi ~~~


I hear you Bill. If your mission parallels his, then I say more power to you. I hope that you find what you're looking for. Your demeanor warrants it!

PEACE, my friend!


























.

[chaz wyman]

HYSTERICAL RANTINGS.

I don't mind conversing with you or anyone else on this or any other topics, but you still have not answered basic questions I have asked about your claims concerning the absolute existence of "truth". You have not stated how this situation can obtain.
Until you do - I will continue to delete your rantings and insults.

Show me the "logic" of your theory of truth!
Demonstrate that truth can exist in the absence of humans to conceive of it!

There is an apposite phrase used by our American brethren; "Put up of Shut up!"

You don't deserve anything with your condescending attitude. You can take your "HYSTERICAL RANTINGS" and your black mailing approach and stick them back up your arse from whence they came. You can't strong arm me, boy! It's just an illusion you share with your monitor & keyboard that real physical proximity and human nature would put into its proper perspective.

But I agree that we've spent far too much time acting like children, and yet you persist. It was you that has set this stage of tit for tat attacks, as with your initial approach, not I! And don't be fooled into thinking that you're exempt from stating your case, such that only I have to bear fruit. So shut up or put up! You can start with your apology for exuding your unwarranted holier than thou attitude. Who the fark do you think you are anyway? Your just another insignificant human, such as I, of 6.8 billion that squanders away our existence for mere selfish trivialities or you'd be living in a cave. I'm here to tell you it's just your delusion!

Since you started the crap you should be the one that swallows his pride and starts the serious adult dialog. I'll be here, whenever you're ready. And I mean the ENTIRE message, not a mix of hot and cold such that you can satisfy some insatiable need in being nasty.

Oh and by the way, If i were to reveal my last name it would be apparent that it's of British origin. However I don't care about such trivialities. I only see myself as a human of the world and claim no specific culture; I've traveled around the world. "Better the pride that resides, in a citizen of the world, than the pride that divides, when a colorful rag is unfurled."

P.S. In your first clean message with apology, please include a reiteration of your primary concern with my truth.

I simply refer you to the questions I asked some time ago.

[Arising_uk]

If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British.

Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.

A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.

Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks:

One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.

Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian location should be chosen for dumping down all kaffirs of the town, passes my comprehension. Of course, under my suggestion, the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population, and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen.

His description of black inmates:

Only a degree removed from the animal. ... Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.

We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race.

'The petition dwells upon ‘the co-mingling of the coloured and white races’. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type. Why bring such a question into the controversy at all?

[chaz wyman]

If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British.

Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.

A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.

Regarding forcible registration with the state of blacks:

One can understand the necessity for registration of Kaffirs who will not work.

Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian location should be chosen for dumping down all kaffirs of the town, passes my comprehension. Of course, under my suggestion, the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population, and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen.

His description of black inmates:

Only a degree removed from the animal. ... Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.

We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race.

'The petition dwells upon ‘the co-mingling of the coloured and white races’. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type. Why bring such a question into the controversy at all?

Where are you getting all thi s stuff?

[Arising_uk]

Where are you getting all this stuff?

A simple goggle search will find his quotes from his time in South Africa.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I don't mind conversing with you or anyone else on this or any other topics, but you still have not answered basic questions I have asked about your claims concerning the absolute existence of "truth". You have not stated how this situation can obtain.
Until you do - I will continue to delete your rantings and insults.

Show me the "logic" of your theory of truth!
Demonstrate that truth can exist in the absence of humans to conceive of it!

There is an apposite phrase used by our American brethren; "Put up of Shut up!"

You don't deserve anything with your condescending attitude. You can take your "HYSTERICAL RANTINGS" and your black mailing approach and stick them back up your arse from whence they came. You can't strong arm me, boy! It's just an illusion you share with your monitor & keyboard that real physical proximity and human nature would put into its proper perspective.

But I agree that we've spent far too much time acting like children, and yet you persist. It was you that has set this stage of tit for tat attacks, as with your initial approach, not I! And don't be fooled into thinking that you're exempt from stating your case, such that only I have to bear fruit. So shut up or put up! You can start with your apology for exuding your unwarranted holier than thou attitude. Who the fark do you think you are anyway? Your just another insignificant human, such as I, of 6.8 billion that squanders away our existence for mere selfish trivialities or you'd be living in a cave. I'm here to tell you it's just your delusion!

Since you started the crap you should be the one that swallows his pride and starts the serious adult dialog. I'll be here, whenever you're ready. And I mean the ENTIRE message, not a mix of hot and cold such that you can satisfy some insatiable need in being nasty.

Oh and by the way, If i were to reveal my last name it would be apparent that it's of British origin. However I don't care about such trivialities. I only see myself as a human of the world and claim no specific culture; I've traveled around the world. "Better the pride that resides, in a citizen of the world, than the pride that divides, when a colorful rag is unfurled."

P.S. In your first clean message with apology, please include a reiteration of your primary concern with my truth.

I simply refer you to the questions I asked some time ago.

Because of your response, I now see that I only have one option, and that is to disprove your hypothesis, and I quote:

"All truth is within, a one person's truth is another's untruth." and
"That's my truth. You can agree or disagree. That is what truth is." and
"The truth is conceived in a way that complies variously with that which corresponds to our views and desires." and
"Truth is relative." and
"when you think you know what is true, you think you have tapped into the universal motherload of truth - you have not."

No need to edit, as I've taken a screen capture and saved the pages as HTML documents.

So, do you stand by these assertions you've made?

If so, I take it that you're saying that since there are approximately 6.8 billion people on planet earth that on any given subject there could be 6.8 billion completely different truths, correct?

This one's just an extremely funny one:
"You lose."

[chaz wyman]

P.S. In your first clean message with apology, please include a reiteration of your primary concern with my truth.

I simply refer you to the questions I asked some time ago.

Because of your response, I now see that I only have one option, and that is to disprove your hypothesis, and I quote:

"All truth is within, a one person's truth is another's untruth." and
"That's my truth. You can agree or disagree. That is what truth is." and
"The truth is conceived in a way that complies variously with that which corresponds to our views and desires." and
"Truth is relative." and
"when you think you know what is true, you think you have tapped into the universal motherload of truth - you have not."

No need to edit, as I've taken a screen capture and saved the pages as HTML documents.

So, do you stand by these assertions you've made?



This one's just an extremely funny one:
"You lose."[/quote]

It's so funny, it is true!!!

[SpheresOfBalance]

P.S. In your first clean message with apology, please include a reiteration of your primary concern with my truth.

I simply refer you to the questions I asked some time ago.

Because of your response, I now see that I only have one option, and that is to disprove your hypothesis, and I quote:

"All truth is within, a one person's truth is another's untruth." and
"That's my truth. You can agree or disagree. That is what truth is." and
"The truth is conceived in a way that complies variously with that which corresponds to our views and desires." and
"Truth is relative." and
"when you think you know what is true, you think you have tapped into the universal motherload of truth - you have not."

No need to edit, as I've taken a screen capture and saved the pages as HTML documents.

So, do you stand by these assertions you've made?



This one's just an extremely funny one:
"You lose."

It's so funny, it is true!!! [/quote]
That remains to be seen, I'm just getting started!

Are you going to answer the questions or are you afraid to?

Here they are again:

"So, do you stand by these assertions you've made?"

"If so, I take it that you're saying that since there are approximately 6.8 billion people on planet earth that on any given subject there could be 6.8 billion completely different truths, correct?"

[lancek4]

.






"I worship God as Truth only. I have not yet found Him, but I am seeking after Him. I am prepared to sacrifice the things dearest to me in pursuit of this quest. Even if the sacrifice demanded my very life, I hope I may be prepared to give it.
~~~ Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi ~~~


The Truth is Absurd - and this guy proved it.










............................................















.

[chaz wyman]

P.S. In your first clean message with apology, please include a reiteration of your primary concern with my truth.

I simply refer you to the questions I asked some time ago.

Because of your response, I now see that I only have one option, and that is to disprove your hypothesis, and I quote:

"All truth is within, a one person's truth is another's untruth." and
"That's my truth. You can agree or disagree. That is what truth is." and
"The truth is conceived in a way that complies variously with that which corresponds to our views and desires." and
"Truth is relative." and
"when you think you know what is true, you think you have tapped into the universal motherload of truth - you have not."

No need to edit, as I've taken a screen capture and saved the pages as HTML documents.

So, do you stand by these assertions you've made?



This one's just an extremely funny one:
"You lose."

It's so funny, it is true!!!

That remains to be seen, I'm just getting started!

Are you going to answer the questions or are you afraid to?

Here they are again:

"So, do you stand by these assertions you've made?"

"If so, I take it that you're saying that since there are approximately 6.8 billion people on planet earth that on any given subject there could be 6.8 billion completely different truths, correct?"[/quote]

Obviously not. Your mind is a cesspit of absolutism. You need to learn to read more carefully.
But there is 6.8 million truths about "the way I feel". I don't think any one can feel exactly the same as anyone else.
Or there are 6.8 million truths about 'where I am", As for as I know no one has yet mastered simultaneous co-location.
But if you want to run with this caricature - I'd like to know what you are going to do with it.

[Bill Wiltrack]

.







....................................

It does not take many words to speak the truth
~~~ Chief Joseph Nez Perce ~~~
















.