US is going to be running on blood diesel

[popeye1945]

At least half of the world, hopefully more, recognizes that the world is interdependent and interrelational and that the time of violent Empire and colonialism is over. This is the movement of the BRICS federation of nations, which the West is in conflict with for not accepting the reality of the above. The world must resonate with cooperation between nations and leave the old colonial mentality behind or perish. Humanity needs as its goal its own mastery of self-control.

[Gary Childress]

At least half of the world, hopefully more, recognizes that the world is interdependent and interrelational and that the time of violent Empire and colonialism is over. This is the movement of the BRICS federation of nations, which the West is in conflict with for not accepting the reality of the above. The world must resonate with cooperation between nations and leave the old colonial mentality behind or perish. Humanity needs as its goal its own mastery of self-control.

So, as a state that embodies the ideal of self-mastery and self-control for each sovereign nation, Russia is fighting the good fight in Ukraine. And the US, as the imperialist state, is fighting for the enslavement of states to the US. What happens if Russia wins the Ukraine conflict and the imperialist USA comes crashing down like a house of cards?

1) Will Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine?

2) Should Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine, or

3) Is Russia annexing Ukraine a fair move?

[popeye1945]

At least half of the world, hopefully more, recognizes that the world is interdependent and interrelational and that the time of violent Empire and colonialism is over. This is the movement of the BRICS federation of nations, which the West is in conflict with for not accepting the reality of the above. The world must resonate with cooperation between nations and leave the old colonial mentality behind or perish. Humanity needs as its goal its own mastery of self-control.

So, as a state that embodies the ideal of self-mastery and self-control for each sovereign nation, Russia is fighting the good fight in Ukraine. And the US, as the imperialist state, is fighting for the enslavement of states to the US. What happens if Russia wins the Ukraine conflict and the imperialist USA comes crashing down like a house of cards?

Russia is only a member of the BRICS federation of nations, and cooperation is only the first step in gaining self-control of the psyche of humanity. Empire has governed the human psyche since the fifteenth century, the so-called Age of Discovery. So violence, exploitation, and slavery have governed until recently, but not eliminated, which is the goal that the mostly historically exploited peoples of the Earth are now reaching for. Ukraine is like Canada to the Russian people; like Canada being right on the American border, of course they have an interest in who lives next door. Russia and Ukraine had negotiated a peace deal before the West squashed it. Historically Russia agreed to the reunification of Germany on the understanding that NATO would not move an inch closer to the Russian border. Remember, Russia lost twenty-seven million souls defeating that monster Nazi war machine; America lost half a million. Sadly, NATO became an instrument of US aggression, a war machine. As far as Russia's sense of insecurity goes, they were told that what we do is none of their business. America and its NATO are fully responsible for the bloody carnage that has taken place and will take place. America, NATO, get off Russia's back porch, and go home.

1) Will Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine?
2) Should Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine, or
3) Is Russia annexing Ukraine a fair move?
[/quote]

I think the above answers your questions.

[Gary Childress]

At least half of the world, hopefully more, recognizes that the world is interdependent and interrelational and that the time of violent Empire and colonialism is over. This is the movement of the BRICS federation of nations, which the West is in conflict with for not accepting the reality of the above. The world must resonate with cooperation between nations and leave the old colonial mentality behind or perish. Humanity needs as its goal its own mastery of self-control.

So, as a state that embodies the ideal of self-mastery and self-control for each sovereign nation, Russia is fighting the good fight in Ukraine. And the US, as the imperialist state, is fighting for the enslavement of states to the US. What happens if Russia wins the Ukraine conflict and the imperialist USA comes crashing down like a house of cards?

Russia is only a member of the BRICS federation of nations, and cooperation is only the first step in gaining self-control of the psyche of humanity. Empire has governed the human psyche since the fifteenth century, the so-called Age of Discovery. So violence, exploitation, and slavery have governed until recently, but not eliminated, which is the goal that the mostly historically exploited peoples of the Earth are now reaching for. Ukraine is like Canada to the Russian people; like Canada being right on the American border, of course they have an interest in who lives next door. Russia and Ukraine had negotiated a peace deal before the West squashed it. Historically Russia agreed to the reunification of Germany on the understanding that NATO would not move an inch closer to the Russian border. Remember, Russia lost twenty-seven million souls defeating that monster Nazi war machine; America lost half a million. Sadly, NATO became an instrument of US aggression, a war machine. As far as Russia's sense of insecurity goes, they were told that what we do is none of their business. America and its NATO are fully responsible for the bloody carnage that has taken place and will take place. America, NATO, get off Russia's back porch, and go home.

1) Will Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine?
2) Should Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine, or
3) Is Russia annexing Ukraine a fair move?

I think the above answers your questions.

So would it be correct of me to say that you think Russia should not annex Ukraine and that annexing Ukraine would be unfair or are you saying that Russia annexing Ukraine would be a fair move? I don't see how your answer above answers those two questions. Maybe you can elaborate or make it clearer to me?

[popeye1945]

So, as a state that embodies the ideal of self-mastery and self-control for each sovereign nation, Russia is fighting the good fight in Ukraine. And the US, as the imperialist state, is fighting for the enslavement of states to the US. What happens if Russia wins the Ukraine conflict and the imperialist USA comes crashing down like a house of cards?

Russia is only a member of the BRICS federation of nations, and cooperation is only the first step in gaining self-control of the psyche of humanity. Empire has governed the human psyche since the fifteenth century, the so-called Age of Discovery. So violence, exploitation, and slavery have governed until recently, but not eliminated, which is the goal that the mostly historically exploited peoples of the Earth are now reaching for. Ukraine is like Canada to the Russian people; like Canada being right on the American border, of course they have an interest in who lives next door. Russia and Ukraine had negotiated a peace deal before the West squashed it. Historically Russia agreed to the reunification of Germany on the understanding that NATO would not move an inch closer to the Russian border. Remember, Russia lost twenty-seven million souls defeating that monster Nazi war machine; America lost half a million. Sadly, NATO became an instrument of US aggression, a war machine. As far as Russia's sense of insecurity goes, they were told that what we do is none of their business. America and its NATO are fully responsible for the bloody carnage that has taken place and will take place. America, NATO, get off Russia's back porch, and go home.

1) Will Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine?
2) Should Russia restrain itself from annexing Ukraine, or
3) Is Russia annexing Ukraine a fair move?

I think the above answers your questions.

So would it be correct of me to say that you think Russia should not annex Ukraine and that annexing Ukraine would be unfair or are you saying that Russia annexing Ukraine would be a fair move? I don't see how your answer above answers those two questions. Maybe you can elaborate or make it clearer to me?

The agreement Russia and Ukraine were hashing out did not involve Russia invading or taking over Ukraine; it simply ensured that they would not host Western military in their country and on Russia's border. This the West swashed and chose war when, as a result, Russia invaded. I sometimes wonder what the West is thinking; they cannot presently defeat Russia, and if somehow they were making any real progress, China is going to step in. China knows if Russia falls shes next.

[Gary Childress]

Russia is only a member of the BRICS federation of nations, and cooperation is only the first step in gaining self-control of the psyche of humanity. Empire has governed the human psyche since the fifteenth century, the so-called Age of Discovery. So violence, exploitation, and slavery have governed until recently, but not eliminated, which is the goal that the mostly historically exploited peoples of the Earth are now reaching for. Ukraine is like Canada to the Russian people; like Canada being right on the American border, of course they have an interest in who lives next door. Russia and Ukraine had negotiated a peace deal before the West squashed it. Historically Russia agreed to the reunification of Germany on the understanding that NATO would not move an inch closer to the Russian border. Remember, Russia lost twenty-seven million souls defeating that monster Nazi war machine; America lost half a million. Sadly, NATO became an instrument of US aggression, a war machine. As far as Russia's sense of insecurity goes, they were told that what we do is none of their business. America and its NATO are fully responsible for the bloody carnage that has taken place and will take place. America, NATO, get off Russia's back porch, and go home.



I think the above answers your questions.

So would it be correct of me to say that you think Russia should not annex Ukraine and that annexing Ukraine would be unfair or are you saying that Russia annexing Ukraine would be a fair move? I don't see how your answer above answers those two questions. Maybe you can elaborate or make it clearer to me?

The agreement Russia and Ukraine were hashing out did not involve Russia invading or taking over Ukraine; it simply ensured that they would not host Western military in their country and on Russia's border. This the West swashed and chose war when, as a result, Russia invaded. I sometimes wonder what the West is thinking; they cannot presently defeat Russia, and if somehow they were making any real progress, China is going to step in. China knows if Russia falls shes next.

So as it stands now, all other things equal, if Russia won the Ukraine war and afterward declared that it was annexing Ukraine as part of Russia, would Russia be justified in doing so? Am I to assume your answer would be "yes"?

[popeye1945]

So would it be correct of me to say that you think Russia should not annex Ukraine and that annexing Ukraine would be unfair or are you saying that Russia annexing Ukraine would be a fair move? I don't see how your answer above answers those two questions. Maybe you can elaborate or make it clearer to me?

The agreement Russia and Ukraine were hashing out did not involve Russia invading or taking over Ukraine; it simply ensured that they would not host Western military in their country and on Russia's border. This the West swashed and chose war when, as a result, Russia invaded. I sometimes wonder what the West is thinking; they cannot presently defeat Russia, and if somehow they were making any real progress, China is going to step in. China knows if Russia falls shes next.

So as it stands now, all other things equal, if Russia won the Ukraine war and afterward declared that it was annexing Ukraine as part of Russia, would Russia be justified in doing so? Am I to assume your answer would be "yes"?

Yes, if it remains a threat to Russia's sovereignty, yes! No Western military on Russia's back porch.

[Gary Childress]

The agreement Russia and Ukraine were hashing out did not involve Russia invading or taking over Ukraine; it simply ensured that they would not host Western military in their country and on Russia's border. This the West swashed and chose war when, as a result, Russia invaded. I sometimes wonder what the West is thinking; they cannot presently defeat Russia, and if somehow they were making any real progress, China is going to step in. China knows if Russia falls shes next.

So as it stands now, all other things equal, if Russia won the Ukraine war and afterward declared that it was annexing Ukraine as part of Russia, would Russia be justified in doing so? Am I to assume your answer would be "yes"?

Yes, if it remains a threat to Russia's sovereignty, yes! No Western military on Russia's back porch.

OK. If it were the case that Ukraine or its alliance with the United States and the European Union wouldn't be a threat to Russian sovereignty, then would Russia still be justified?

[popeye1945]

So as it stands now, all other things equal, if Russia won the Ukraine war and afterward declared that it was annexing Ukraine as part of Russia, would Russia be justified in doing so? Am I to assume your answer would be "yes"?

Yes, if it remains a threat to Russia's sovereignty, yes! No Western military on Russia's back porch.

OK. If it were the case that Ukraine or its alliance with the United States and the European Union wouldn't be a threat to Russian sovereignty, then would Russia still be justified?

No, not if Ukraine were not a threat to Russian sovereignty. Land is the last thing Russia is short of; ask Napoleon or the Third Reich.

[Gary Childress]

Yes, if it remains a threat to Russia's sovereignty, yes! No Western military on Russia's back porch.

OK. If it were the case that Ukraine or its alliance with the United States and the European Union wouldn't be a threat to Russian sovereignty, then would Russia still be justified?

No, not if Ukraine were not a threat to Russian sovereignty. Land is the last thing Russia is short of; ask Napoleon or the Third Reich.

OK. So in order to be justified in annexing Ukraine, A Ukrainian alliance with the United States or the European Union would need to be a threat to Russian sovereignty. If it's not a threat to Russian sovereignty, then it would be unjustified for Russia to annex it. That's good to know. Seems fair.

[popeye1945]

OK. If it were the case that Ukraine or its alliance with the United States and the European Union wouldn't be a threat to Russian sovereignty, then would Russia still be justified?

No, not if Ukraine were not a threat to Russian sovereignty. Land is the last thing Russia is short of; ask Napoleon or the Third Reich.

OK. So in order to be justified in annexing Ukraine, A Ukrainian alliance with the United States or the European Union would need to be a threat to Russian sovereignty. If it's not a threat to Russian sovereignty, then it would be unjustified for Russia to annex it. That's good to know. Seems fair.

Yes, left alone, they were working it out, but the West had other plans.

[Gary Childress]

No, not if Ukraine were not a threat to Russian sovereignty. Land is the last thing Russia is short of; ask Napoleon or the Third Reich.

OK. So in order to be justified in annexing Ukraine, A Ukrainian alliance with the United States or the European Union would need to be a threat to Russian sovereignty. If it's not a threat to Russian sovereignty, then it would be unjustified for Russia to annex it. That's good to know. Seems fair.

Yes, left alone, they were working it out, but the West had other plans.

I recall seeing it said that at one point Putin asked NATO for permission for Russia to join NATO. I wonder how that would have turned out. I saw speculation that, had Russia joined NATO, then the NATO countries feared they might be dragged into Russian military efforts to swallow up the former Soviet republics, and that was the reason Russia was turned down. If that's true, then I'm not sure how accurate that speculation was. In any case, it seems to have resulted in Putin feeling rebuked and drawing the conclusion that NATO was still a threat to them.

Perhaps it's the case that both camps believe the other is out to get them, and that consequently becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where things were once more open to possibilities.

[popeye1945]

OK. So in order to be justified in annexing Ukraine, A Ukrainian alliance with the United States or the European Union would need to be a threat to Russian sovereignty. If it's not a threat to Russian sovereignty, then it would be unjustified for Russia to annex it. That's good to know. Seems fair.

Yes, left alone, they were working it out, but the West had other plans.

I recall seeing it said that at one point Putin asked NATO for permission for Russia to join NATO. I wonder how that would have turned out. I saw speculation that, had Russia joined NATO, then the NATO countries feared they might be dragged into Russian military efforts to swallow up the former Soviet republics, and that was the reason Russia was turned down. If that's true, then I'm not sure how accurate that speculation was. In any case, it seems to have resulted in Putin feeling rebuked and drawing the conclusion that NATO was still a threat to them.

Perhaps it's the case that both camps believe the other is out to get them, and that consequently becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where things were once more open to possibilities.

Yes, I think you've made a good evaluation of the situtation. Putin did wish to join NATO during the Clinton administration but was turned down flatly. America always needs an enemy to feed its enormous industrial military complex; it's typical of Empire and its desire for world domination, which it now sees slipping away. From my perspective, America is in complete chaos and is self-destructing. I don't think either party is worthy of being in government.

[Gary Childress]

Yes, left alone, they were working it out, but the West had other plans.

I recall seeing it said that at one point Putin asked NATO for permission for Russia to join NATO. I wonder how that would have turned out. I saw speculation that, had Russia joined NATO, then the NATO countries feared they might be dragged into Russian military efforts to swallow up the former Soviet republics, and that was the reason Russia was turned down. If that's true, then I'm not sure how accurate that speculation was. In any case, it seems to have resulted in Putin feeling rebuked and drawing the conclusion that NATO was still a threat to them.

Perhaps it's the case that both camps believe the other is out to get them, and that consequently becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where things were once more open to possibilities.

Yes, I think you've made a good evaluation of the situtation. Putin did wish to join NATO during the Clinton administration but was turned down flatly. America always needs an enemy to feed its enormous industrial military complex; it's typical of Empire and its desire for world domination, which it now sees slipping away. From my perspective, America is in complete chaos and is self-destructing. I don't think either party is worthy of being in government.

We definitely agree on that last sentence. (Probably on most everything else too.)

[phyllo]

I recall seeing it said that at one point Putin asked NATO for permission for Russia to join NATO.

Russia has never applied for NATO membership.

It almost certainly doesn't meet the minimum requirements:

We have made clear that, at a minimum, candidates for membership must meet the following five requirements:

--New members must uphold democracy, including tolerating diversity.

--New members must be making progress toward a market economy.

--Their military forces must be under firm civilian control.

--They must be good neighbors and respect sovereignty outside their borders.

--They must be working toward compatibility with NATO forces.

https://1997-2001.state.gov/regions/eur/fs_members.html

(One could ask if the USA still meets those requirements. )