God and morality

[Immanuel Can]

Just admit that you enjoy beating up Gary. As does Mr Can.

Not at all. Gary does plenty of that for himself, anyway.

No, I'd like to see Gary get a better life. I wish him more happiness, more advantage, and loads of privileges. I've talked with him here for years; and during that whole time, he's only pleaded that his life is already wretched, and that he can't do anything for himself.

Sometimes, however, getting to the better means admitting when you're being the author of your own misery, taking responsibility, and doing something better. In fact, that's not just sometimes; it's always.

If you wish well to him, that's what you'll wish for him as well, I think.

[Alexis Jacobi]

That aside. Where do you suggest he should go?

You are completely missing the point, Phyllo. What any responsible person, layman or doctor, would necessarily recommend is the undertaking of constructive choices that bring ‘betterment’. Not wallowing in emotions that exacerbate mental instability. It is very simple. Put very simply and directly, no responsible person should enable another in destructive behavior. It seems harsh to stop nourishing addiction, but it is the better course.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Fool, for thyself thou wast not born, but to fulfill the inscrutable decrees of thy Creator; and how dost thou know that this dark principle is not...thy best friend

This is, I think, where many will fail to understand that there is no situation in which divine supernatural help is not available, though it seems indeed quite bleak. But what if the mind will not allow even the sense or prospect that spiritual aid is available? Because the mind, according to both sound and unsound processes, has negated the possibility?

So what is this life that we have? We have existence, awareness, intelligence and agency — and we suffer. The word suffer implies ‘carrying’. As in carrying a burden. Who does not? You can find thousands of recitals of persons deeply afflicted who spiritually do not accept defeat.

My view is that when one has become excluded from Mystical Union that there is then nothing but falling. There is no route up.

[phyllo]

That aside. Where do you suggest he should go?

You are completely missing the point, Phyllo. What any responsible person, layman or doctor, would necessarily recommend is the undertaking of constructive choices that bring ‘betterment’. Not wallowing in emotions that exacerbate mental instability. It is very simple. Put very simply and directly, no responsible person should enable another in destructive behavior. It seems harsh to stop nourishing addiction, but it is the better course.

One would think that in the 21st century, people would have a better understanding of the problems of mental health than in the past.

Apparently not. "Stop wallowing, take responsibility, make constructive choices, do better, you're the author of your own misery".

Ridiculous

[Immanuel Can]

One would think that in the 21st century, people would have a better understanding of the problems of mental health than in the past.

Keep wallowing, Gary...do nothing...just let us feel sorry for you. You're helpless. Change nothing. There's nothing you can do.

If that's your message, how do you expect that to be compassionate to somebody who's mentally ill?

You'll have to explain that strategy.

I would think compassion would dictate that you at least encourage him to seek professional counselling and help, even if you have nothing more to offer him. But "change nothing" will not do one thing for his situation's improvement.

[Gary Childress]

I'm stable. I know exactly what I doing and saying. I was responding to hypocrites who criticise people for complaining and then do the same thing themselves when they don't like the way something is. It's pathetic!

[seeds]

Seeds, it can be noted, accepts in his way the essence in the Christian message,...

Yes, I do. And that would be similar to how I accept (to a limited degree) the essence of most of the other world religions (i.e., the “rafts” for those paying attention).

And to understand why that is, we must look to Hermetic philosophy.

All of the Luddites out there reading this might want to avert your eyes and churn some butter or something, for I am about to call upon one of my favorite oracles - Google AI [bracketed interjections mine]...

Me:
What does it say in Hermetic doctrines about God imparting elements of truth to all of the world's religions?

Google AI:
Hermetic doctrines teach this through the concept of prisca theologia (the "ancient theology"), which asserts that God originally gave a single, true, and eternal religion to humanity in antiquity.

Key aspects of this doctrine include:

• The Single Source: According to Philosophyball Wiki, Hermeticism holds that all religions originated from this one divine, primordial source.
  Fragments of Truth: As humanity and history separated, this unified religion split into the various individual faiths of the world. Because they stem from the original revelation, major religions (such as Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam) still retain scattered elements, reflections, or esoteric remnants of that eternal truth.
  Distortion by Humans: Hermetic texts suggest that existing world religions are often fragmented or distorted by external human interpretations, politics, and cultural biases, masking the deeper, universal wisdom underneath.
  The Role of Ancient Sages: God imparted or revealed this core wisdom to ancient figures and prophets—such as Hermes Trismegistus, Moses, Zoroaster, Pythagoras, and Plato—who then shared pieces of the divine knowledge with the world.

Me:
What was the core truth of the original unified religion before it fragmented into the various world religions? ["rafts"]

Google AI:
In Hermeticism, the core truth of the original, unfragmented religion is rooted in absolute divine unity, cosmic interconnectedness, and the pursuit of direct spiritual knowledge (Gnosis).

Rather than a list of rigid rules or historical dogmas, this primordial wisdom (prisca theologia) is distilled into foundational metaphysical truths:

• The Universe is Mind ("The All"): The ultimate foundational truth is that God, or the Supreme Source, is an infinite, divine mind. The entire created cosmos exists within this divine mind, meaning the universe is fundamentally spiritual and mental rather than purely material.
  The Principle of Correspondence: Summarized by the famous maxim "As above, so below; as below, so above," this truth dictates that the human being (the microcosm) is a perfect reflection of the vast universe (the macrocosm). By deeply understanding yourself, you can understand God and the cosmos.
  Oneness and Interconnectedness: Everything in existence is bound together by a single, living, divine animating force. There is no true separation between the human soul, nature, and the Divine; everything is a different vibration or manifestation of the same One Source.
  Salvation through Rebirth and Gnosis: The primary purpose of human life in the original faith was not blind worship, but achieving Gnosis—an experiential, direct realization of your own divine nature. Through spiritual discipline, a person could "awaken" from the material world, align their soul with the cosmos, and spiritually reunite with God.

When this primordial tradition fragmented into world religions ['rafts"], individual faiths often clung tightly to just one of these pieces—such as emphasizing the moral law of the Creator or the cyclical nature of existence—while losing sight of the complete, unified picture.
________________

>>>End of my convo with the oracle.

So yes, I do accept the core essence of the message inscribed in the “riggings” of the Christian “raft” --> which is that humans are the literal “offspring” (progeny, children) of the Creator of this universe,...

...and most humans (including you, my little brother AJ*) have yet to understand the full implications of that message.

*(Again, you can see Alexis Jacobi in his starring role as “Twin Number Two” in my fun little soap opera “Oh the Irony” --> viewable [free of charge] at the following link: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/my-bu ... 26?u=seeds)
_______

[phyllo]

I'm stable. I know exactly what I doing and saying. I was responding to hypocrites who criticise people for complaining and then do the same thing themselves when they don't like the way something is. It's pathetic!

Stable or cured?

Knowing what you are doing and saying or in complete control of what you are doing and saying?

Cause if you are in control and you could do otherwise, then these wieners have a legitimate point in saying that you ought to do otherwise.

[Alexis Jacobi]

That aside. Where do you suggest he should go?

You are completely missing the point, Phyllo. What any responsible person, layman or doctor, would necessarily recommend is the undertaking of constructive choices that bring ‘betterment’. Not wallowing in emotions that exacerbate mental instability. It is very simple. Put very simply and directly, no responsible person should enable another in destructive behavior. It seems harsh to stop nourishing addiction, but it is the better course.

One would think that in the 21st century, people would have a better understanding of the problems of mental health than in the past.

Apparently not. "Stop wallowing, take responsibility, make constructive choices, do better, you're the author of your own misery".

Ridiculous

Again, you fail to understand. Gary, despite limitations, has tons of agency. And yet he chooses to subject himself to the pain and discomfort of focus on those things that make him feel bad. Responsible people will inform him this is a bad choice. You do not cure poisonous intoxication with more poisons.

This is very basic self-help stuff, Phyllo.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Cause if you are in control and you could do otherwise, then these wieners have a legitimate point in saying that you ought to do otherwise.

Nice discernment. Gary will now launch into rationalization-mode. All neurotics must defend the machinery of their neurosis. If they did not, they would have to dismantle the neurotic construct.

[phyllo]

This is very basic self-help stuff, Phyllo.

Basic self-help doesn't work on mental illness.

That's the part you don't understand.

[Alexis Jacobi]

This is very basic self-help stuff, Phyllo.

Basic self-help doesn't work on mental illness.

That's the part you don't understand.

Oh of course it does. Everyone is “mentally ill” to degrees, and everyone knows that they must watch themselves, take care of themselves, avoid disturbing situations, etc. Now, true, someone in the throes of a psychotic episode cannot take proper care of themselves. But Gary is, most of the time, stable.

This is why, Gary, I have always noted that your pessimism view if “life as it is” is the incomplete picture of a quasi-Christian. You have become totally disenchanted with ‘the world’ in all its corruption and horror, but cannot bring yourself to, as it were, cross over a River Styx of insurmountable doubt borne of faithlessness that the Supreme Author has a whole new set of possibilities in mind.

Does the Bible support your thesis? Or should we consult the Farmer's Almanac or the Guinness Book of World Records? I want to know the TRUTH!!!!

The answer is self-evident. The New Testament is in its essence about “how to get well”. It presupposes an alternative to illness, disunity, confusion and addiction to non-productive and deleterious habits, attractions and methods.

[phyllo]

Cause if you are in control and you could do otherwise, then these wieners have a legitimate point in saying that you ought to do otherwise.

Nice discernment. Gary will now launch into rationalization-mode. All neurotics must defend the machinery of their neurosis. If they did not, they would have to dismantle the neurotic construct.

That's probing whether Gary thinks he has a problem or not.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm stable. I know exactly what I doing and saying.

Then you have agency. You can change things in your life. At the very worst, you can make them just a little less insufferable for yourself than now. At most, you can change the trajectory of your life.

I'm rooting for you. Phyllo says you cannot do it. Prove one of us wrong.

[Gary Childress]

I'm stable. I know exactly what I doing and saying.

Then you have agency. You can change things in your life. At the very worst, you can make them just a little less insufferable for yourself than now. At most, you can change the trajectory of your life.

I'm rooting for you. Phyllo says you cannot do it. Prove one of us wrong.

So no shame. It's OK for you to be a hypocrite. You have no problem with it.

How can anyone win an argument with depraved people like you? You lie, deny, avoid, and redirect. I hope you get what you deserve in this world.