God and morality

[promethean75]

"but unwilling to leave the feeling of security the job gave you in order to earn more"

I'm sorry... did you miss the part about the wage stagnation reached once market average wage levels are naturally reached via competition and how the new boss that just hired you is only giving you twenty-six cents more per hour than the guy you just quit so it was pointless to do so? This is the real lived experience of almost everyone you see on the street. They are going through exactly that.

Have you ever been a wage earner in a particular field, or are you a jack of all trades guy? If the former you should have fast learned what 'dead end' means in the job market. A guy doesn't skip around different fields hoping to land the big bucks. Don't work like that. He hunkers down and develops skills in a particular field and begins a career there. If the wage/salary averages are steady, there's no substantial improvement no matter how many "bosses he stopped letting exploit him" (paraphrasing you) and how many new jobs he got.

[Immanuel Can]

"but unwilling to leave the feeling of security the job gave you in order to earn more"

I'm sorry... did you miss the part about the wage stagnation reached once market average wage levels are naturally reached via competition

Then get a new job. Get what you think you're worth...if you can get it.

You're not an indentured servant. You're not even an industrial prole. You're an American citizen. You can go wherever you can sell your labour for whatever you can get.

Have you ever been a wage earner in a particular field, or are you a jack of all trades guy?

It doesn't matter. My opinion could still be right, even if I were never in the work force.

But since you ask: I've been blue collar, and I've been white collar, and I've always worked for a wage. But unlike some, I didn't limit myself. And I sure didn't carp and whine that others had more than me. I got what I needed to move up, and drew the wage I earned. I didn't deserve less, perhaps; but I also didn't deserve more, perhaps. I was worth what the market would pay, and what I was prepared to sign on for.

Just like you.

[Immanuel Can]

You are literally avoiding the truth.

"Fetus" means "offspring" or "progeny," and in this case, human progeny.

That's NOT a baby or a child.

It's a human being. You know it is.

[Lacewing]

"You are literally avoiding the truth: a fetus does not become a baby or child until birth"

No, Lace, you can't go that far.

These are published definitions...

'Human development progresses through several stages: zygote, embryo, fetus, and newborn.'

'A fetus becomes a baby at birth, when it begins independent life outside the womb.'

'A fetus refers to the developing human from roughly the 9th week of gestation until birth. During this stage, the organs and body systems are forming and maturing, but the fetus is not yet capable of independent survival outside the womb without medical support. In contrast, a baby is a human infant from birth up to about one year of age, fully developed and considered a separate individual from the mother.'

You gotta mark the babe's beginnings around the time the nervous system begins being formed. That's the safest criteria.

I am pointing out that it's misleading in these arguments to call it a baby or child. It is a developing fetus.

I'm urging that we must first be accurate, rather than emotional, in how we frame it.

[Lacewing]

"Fetus" means "offspring" or "progeny," and in this case, human progeny.

That's NOT a baby or a child.

It's a human being. You know it is.

It is a human organism in development. That's NOT a baby or a child.

[Immanuel Can]

That's NOT a baby or a child.

It's a human being. You know it is.

It is a human organism in development. That's NOT a baby or a child.

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll do something you'll regret forever.

[Walker]

Babies and children are those same human organisms, also in development.
A later stage. Like you, a later stage away from that flash of light.

[promethean75]

You are morphologically closer to a fish than a human being during the first two months. I used to know how this works 'cause I read a yuge university book on evolution on the yard. Forget the term... it's a distant characteristic of stage development from when we were fish that remained throughout evolution and it recurs during any fetal development. f*** I can't remember the term.

[Lacewing]

It's a human being. You know it is.

It is a human organism in development. That's NOT a baby or a child.

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll do something you'll regret forever.

I'm not advocating for abortion, nor have I ever had one. I'm talking about accurate context.

If we cannot even agree on the basis of what something is, then how can we have a truthful conversation concerning it?

Your dishonesty and distortion is a disservice... and simply for yourself.

[Walker]

It is a human organism in development. That's NOT a baby or a child.

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll do something you'll regret forever.

I'm not advocating for abortion, nor have I ever had one. I'm talking about accurate context.

If we cannot even agree on the basis of what something is, then how can we have a truthful conversation concerning it?

Your dishonesty and distortion is a disservice... and simply for yourself.

Everything is always changing. Being (of form) is not static.

Babies and children are those same human organisms as everything else that follows after that flash of light of conception. Everything that happens after the flash is a human being in development.

You are a later stage of development away from that flash of light.

By tomorrow, you will have dipped your toe in a different river.

(You know, perpetual insults is a big flashing sign of insecurity. It's also why small dogs are nippers. They're insecure.)

[Walker]

You are morphologically closer to a fish than a human being during the first two months. I used to know how this works 'cause I read a yuge university book on evolution on the yard. Forget the term... it's a distant characteristic of stage development from when we were fish that remained throughout evolution and it recurs during any fetal development. f*** I can't remember the term.

I wonder if Frankenstein ever transplanted a tadpole into a woman, to see if a human would grow, in the name of science.

Children used to be told that the lady's tummy is big because she swallowed a watermelon seed.
This could be why adults are confused about what's growing in there.
Old programming is difficult to shake.

[Lacewing]

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll do something you'll regret forever.

I'm not advocating for abortion, nor have I ever had one. I'm talking about accurate context.

If we cannot even agree on the basis of what something is, then how can we have a truthful conversation concerning it?

Your dishonesty and distortion is a disservice... and simply for yourself.

Everything is always changing. Being (of form) is not static.

Babies and children are those same human organisms as everything else that follows...

Like old men. I don't see you referring to fetuses as 'old men'. You know why? Because it's not as emotional and interesting for self-serving arguments based on distortion.

Baby killers! Baby killers! Ooooohhhhhh... you're such a righteous soul to PROTECT THE BABIES!!!

You don't give a fu<k about those babies. This is all self-righteous bullshit.

If you want to talk about what a fetus eventually develops into, let's start talking about the horrors of aborting old men.

Yes, all organisms grow and develop into other forms. It's the way nature works. Stop pretending it is something it isn't.

[Walker]

If you want to talk about what a fetus eventually develops into, let's start talking about the horrors of aborting old men.

Sure, why not. The door has been opened by the wide-spread acceptance and common practice of abortion.

Abortion has become so commonplace that, as illustrated in the Clancy case, infanticide is also becoming acceptable.

Let's get this show on the road. What's after the old men? The old women? This should ignite a debate among the affected as to what constitutes "old." Is it, emotional age, for immunity? Just claim to be forever young at heart ... but not too young. Not, victim young.

[Lacewing]

If you want to talk about what a fetus eventually develops into, let's start talking about the horrors of aborting old men.

Sure, why not. The door has been opened by the wide-spread acceptance and common practice of abortion.

Abortion has become so commonplace that, as illustrated in the Clancy case, infanticide is also becoming acceptable.

Acceptable to who? Certainly not me. The problem with some of these arguments is that small-brained people pit ONE CHOICE (or side) against ANOTHER; it's either this or that; it's either completely wrong or completely right. There are no conditions... no considerations... no broader thinking... rather, primitive dualistic thinking in order to support a self-righteous position with no flexibility. Seriously, can we not be smarter than that?

Let's get this show on the road. What's after the old men? The old women?

Anyone old.

This should ignite a debate among the affected...

How about...
--> Did these old humans really make good use of their life? Were they worth all the resources they used?
--> Did some fetuses turn into people who abused and cheated and destroyed?
--> Should some fetuses be deported by ICE before they can step onto American soil -- or should we wait until they're a toddler and can be permanently traumatized by the ordeal?
--> Who are all of these fetuses REALLY???!!
FETUS INVASION!!!
Many millions wanting to come to Earth!!!
Let's ALLOW that... and then NOT support them.

[Immanuel Can]

It is a human organism in development. That's NOT a baby or a child.

Keep telling yourself that, and you'll do something you'll regret forever.

I'm not advocating for abortion, nor have I ever had one. I'm talking about accurate context.

Well, then, you know that to call a baby a "fetus" is just another way of calling her "offspring of a human being." And it's not even really the fetus stage the abortion is intended to prevent; it's the child. That is what it is valued for, and that is what it does: it prevents a child from coming into the world by killing her. That's murder.